So what "Non- Polymer" Semi Auto?

[Fire_Medic]

First off let me start by saying, I'm in no way trying to start an argument here. Have just noticed a dislike for many things Glock, and I happen to like them. They're not my favorite pistols on my "dream" list, but "for me" they're very practical for "my" uses, affordable, easy to tinker with and repair, and if I lost one (got forbid) because I had to defend myself with it, it wouldn't break the bank.

So what do you guys shoot/own/like, that's a Semi Auto, and not Polymer, regardless of Caliber.

Let's hear it :Fire:

[btroj]

CZ 75B in 9 mm.

1911 in 45 ACP

Only center fire autos I own. Only ones I need.

[clownbear69]

my first pistol I ever bought myself was a Colt Delta Elite. Then again for 500 bucks I think anyone would've bought it.
this was 2 years ago

[Fire_Medic]

my first pistol I ever bought myself was a Colt Delta Elite. Then again for 500 bucks I think anyone would've bought it for 500.
this was 2 years ago

Give ya $501 dollars for it :bigsmyl2:

[clownbear69]

Give ya $501 dollars for it :bigsmyl2:

That's the gun I will most likely be buried with.

[Fire_Medic]

That's the gun I will most likely be buried with.

Was just yanking your chain man, they're fine pistols.

[Jupiter7]

Funny is I don't own any doublestacks at the moment. So for now:

1911's in 45auto

In market for CZ 75 shadow target, if I can find one!!!

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Beretta 92 FS that i bought in 1993

[clownbear69]

Was just yanking your chain man, they're fine pistols.

I know...Another suggestion could be a browning Hi-power or the CZ SP-01 tactical

[Fire_Medic]

I know...Another suggestion could be a browning Hi-power or the CZ SP-01 tactical

My Belgium made BHP from 1971 is my favorite pistol that I currently own. Special place with me, my father in law left it to me before he passed away.

[DeanWinchester]

I just traded into a S&W 4006. I wouldn't give up my Gock for it but I sure do enjoy shooting it. It's very well built. Shame Smith quit making the 39/59 line of 9mm's and the subsequent models of various calibers.

[dragon813gt]

CZ 75B in 9 mm.

1911 in 45 ACP

Only center fire autos I own. Only ones I need.

I was going to post the same thing because they're what I own :beer:
But I do own a couple other centerfire pistols. And they serve a purpose as range toys or carry pieces. Small polymer pistols are easier to conceal compared to a double stack 9mm and a full size 1911.

[forfun]

Colt Delta Elite 10MM

[bruce drake]

FEG made Browning Hi-Power in 9mm Para
1911s in 45ACP and 9mm Para/38 Super (switch-barrel setup)
Can't beat the designs from Browning/Suave.

[brtelec]

I am not a big fan of semi-auto pistols in general, but I do love my HK P7

[samwithacolt]

+1 for the Browning Hi power, I don't have one right now but I will again.
If you can't live with a single action, then the CZ 75/85 has proven itself. I have a .40 Norinco rip off of a CZ 85 and it's great for the price.

[Fire_Medic]

I am not a big fan of semi-auto pistols in general, but I do love my HK P7

One of my favorites to date, use to have an old PSP P7 that was a tack driver. :2gunsfiring_v1:

[brtelec]

This is my P7 PSP. It is easily the most accurate semi-auto handgun I have ever owned.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc233/fzrmax/IMG_2588.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/fzrmax/media/IMG_2588.jpg.html)

[Fire_Medic]

This is my P7 PSP. It is easily the most accurate semi-auto handgun I have ever owned.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc233/fzrmax/IMG_2588.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/fzrmax/media/IMG_2588.jpg.html)

That is a fine looking P7 my friend, congrats!

:drinks:

[bob208]

browning high-power is one I carry. a surplus star super in 9mm largo. colt .45 auto. mauser 96 in .30 mauser. luger in 9mm.

[Worn_Holster]

I love my two H&K P7 PSPs, they are the most accurate autos that I own..
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab52/myHKiron/pre29s6025b_zpsc0776793.jpg
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab52/myHKiron/DSC_0160c.jpg

[brtelec]

Nice to see an HK P7 mutual appreciation society.

[DX250]

I shoot and carry Sigs in 9 and 357 Sig, 58,000 rnds through my P226 9mm. I love how my FEG BHP shoots.

[philthephlier]

CZ 75B in 9 mm.

1911 in 45 ACP

Only center fire autos I own. Only ones I need.

Only change I would make is the CZ75B in 40 S&W.

[Geraldo]

I had P7s; an M8 and M13 that I shot the snot out of. The M13 was small for its capacity, M8 was easy to conceal, fast cycling, and accurate. They were also a major PITA to work on, cast was a true no-no because of the gas chamber, and they got HOT and stayed that way at training.

I'm not down on polymer, I just haven't found one I liked and I've been through a bunch of them.

So it's 1911s and Beretta 92s. A HiPower or CZ would work for me, too.

[375supermag]

Springfield Armory M1911A1 in .45ACP
Colt Combat Commander (nickel) .45ACP

I have a couple other steel-frame semi-autos in 9mm...I wouldn't trust my life to them.
I trust my two 1911s completely without reservation.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'll jump on the H&K P7 wagon. In the plus column - Very Accurate, reliable, compact, durable and safe. In the negative column - Expensive (wouldn't want to lose it), It does get hot with extended firing (non-issue for SD use), over-engineered (looks like a Swiss watch inside but it works beautifully) and as stated before, cast bullets are a no-no.

I also had a P7 M13 and still have an P7 M8. The magazines for the M13 were rare and very expensive. For me, the extra capacity of the M13 didn't outweigh the extra bulk. The P7/PSP was one of the most compact 9mm pistols of its day and is still fairly compact even by today's standards. It excels as a carry gun despite the weight of its all steel construction. It is both slim and short, making it very easy to conceal. For me, it points perfectly. The squeeze-cocking feature makes it fast to deploy and allows a decent trigger action; yet it's very safe. The heal magazine release of the PSP is actually a desirable feature for a carry gun. In the real world outside of competition, it is far more important to have a full magazine locked in the pistol than to have the ability to perform a fast magazine swap. I know a guy that carries a PSP over the P7 for that very reason.

[Petrol & Powder]

Sgt. Mike mentioned the SIG P6 [P225] and that's another great carry pistol that's often overlooked. Absolutely reliable, safe, quick to deploy, and it will not break the bank.
The alloy frame and pressed steel slide makes it light but strong. The single stack magazines make it a slim gun but I will admit that the P228 isn't much bigger. I no longer have a P228 but I do have a P225 / P6. All of the negative traits of the P7 are addressed by the P6 design. It is less expensive, far simpler, lighter, can shoot cast bullets and doesn't heat up as badly after firing three magazines.
My P7 shoots a little better than my P6 but not enough to matter.

I may switch my vote........

[pmer]

There is some hate for Glocks here. And a good share of condescending "I shoot cast in my factory barrel", "just have to size bigger." IMO a reason to buy a after market barrel for a Glock would be in hopes of the same size and alloy for all my 45 ACP.

I have 3 Glocks and only lost 2 points in my CCW qualification with a G19 gen 4. I use the thickest back strap because I shoot it best with either hand that way. It looks bigger for sure but I think it places the big joint of my trigger finger in better relation to the swing of the trigger. My hand is not huge either. I'll say if one needs work in shooting hand guns those troubles will show up even worse with the Glock. Like wise if one gets good with a Glock they'll shoot everything better than before.

Steel frames here are a Browing Buckmark 22LR - very nice and easier to take apart than a Ruger 22/45. And JMB 1911s with the extractor on inside where it should be. :wink:

[Geraldo]

I'll jump on the H&K P7 wagon. In the plus column - Very Accurate, reliable, compact, durable and safe. In the negative column - Expensive (wouldn't want to lose it), It does get hot with extended firing (non-issue for SD use), over-engineered (looks like a Swiss watch inside but it works beautifully) and as stated before, cast bullets are a no-no.


I forgot to mention that the nice P7 bluing rusts like crazy in certain environments. But dang do they shoot straight and fast.

I'll second P&P's recommendation on the P6/P225. Not as sexy as a P7, but hard to find fault with.

[brtelec]

I have no hate for Glocks. I have owned Glocks since the early Gen 1's I had an original long slide with the ported barrel. I have owned in the neighborhood of 10 or more Glocks and have found them to be accurate and indestructible. I am not a big fan of the Gen 4's but that is another matter. I have a 23 that I would not think twice about betting my life on and do. It is a carry gun for me so I do not use reloads or cast bullets in it. I carry my P7 also, so reloads and cast are again not an issue.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc233/fzrmax/IMG_2580.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/fzrmax/media/IMG_2580.jpg.html)

[Petrol & Powder]

I forgot to mention that the nice P7 bluing rusts like crazy in certain environments. But dang do they shoot straight and fast.

I'll second P&P's recommendation on the P6/P225. Not as sexy as a P7, but hard to find fault with.

The credit for the P6 goes to Sgt. Mike but I do agree with him.
And yes, the P7 can rust but maybe that's why you see so many of them with hard chrome or Robar NP3. They're worth the cost of a better finish.

[Petrol & Powder]

And just for the record, I don't hate Glocks :Fire:
It took a little while for me to warm to them - but I'm there. Glocks are the hammers of pistols; simple, relatively inexpensive, useful and they always work. However this thread is about pistol packing preferences of non-polymer persuasions. :o

[RobS]

If you are into a full size that is very well built, will not break the bank then a SAR K2 45 possibly. I have one and its been a nice accurate firearm. Its kind of a mix between a Sig and a CZ and is all steel.


http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy233/rjspies/IMG_8941_zps8daf97bc.jpg (http://s795.photobucket.com/user/rjspies/media/IMG_8941_zps8daf97bc.jpg.html)

[Fire_Medic]

I have no hate for Glocks. I have owned Glocks since the early Gen 1's I had an original long slide with the ported barrel. I have owned in the neighborhood of 10 or more Glocks and have found them to be accurate and indestructible. I am not a big fan of the Gen 4's but that is another matter. I have a 23 that I would not think twice about betting my life on and do. It is a carry gun for me so I do not use reloads or cast bullets in it. I carry my P7 also, so reloads and cast are again not an issue.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc233/fzrmax/IMG_2580.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/fzrmax/media/IMG_2580.jpg.html)

Looks good here's pics of my current G22, I have a custom Cerakoted OD G35 slide on order for it from Lone Wolf that will be strictly for IDPA/Range use:

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/Toys/IMG_6436_zpsab86ae97.jpg

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/Toys/IMG_6437_zps314b1933.jpg

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/Toys/20131220_230737_zps7f33fd16.jpg

I still need to texture the forward frame flats, and at some point get some supplies in to fill in the backstrap cavity which is hollow then I can grind/sand down the hum and give it a nice 1911 type angle which works good with the undercut I did on the trigger guard. I also emoted the finger grooves and stippled the grip 360 degrees.

Gabe

[HeavyMetal]

Given a Glock I'd trade it as quickly as possible for any steel framed gun of good manufacturer!

Not a Hater just could care less for the design ( safety in the trigger?? stoopid!) But I am also not a fan of the AR platform either, spent 2 minutes pounding a empty out of an AR on Thanksgiving.

Typical: never cleaned, junk steel case ammo and no way to actually grab a good hold on the bolt retractor! applied tension to one side of retractor and beat on the other side with a ball peen hammer until we broke it free of the crud in the chamber.

WD 40 and a bore brush had our guy back on the firing line in 10 minutes and yes he'll pay more attention to what he puts in it and cleaning as well.

Now lets talk about pistols:

1911 any caliber, no alloy frame in 45 auto.

CZ 75/85

Star: BM, BKM, BK, firestar single stack only Have a Firestar in 9mm will still look for a 40 never sell it.

The FEG HP 35 clones are good but disapearing fast

Not a fan of the M9 but own a Taurus, not a bad gun once I trimmed 2 lbs of useless aluminum off the butt! Now feels like a 1911, ugly, but feels like a 1911.

only Sig I've ever shoot was a P210-6 target if I ever win the lottery I'll get one!

Only Two S&W auto's worth owning: Model 52 and Model 41 the rest are good fishing weights!

In the Future I may have a Poly framed gun, it has nothing to do with the material as much as it will depend on the design.

Not trying to upset anyone just pointing out my preference's and why!

[Fire_Medic]

Given a Glock I'd trade it as quickly as possible for any steel framed gun of good manufacturer!

Not a Hater just could care less for the design ( safety in the trigger?? stoopid!) But I am also not a fan of the AR platform either, spent 2 minutes pounding a empty out of an AR on Thanksgiving.

Typical: never cleaned, junk steel case ammo and no way to actually grab a good hold on the bolt retractor! applied tension to one side of retractor and beat on the other side with a ball peen hammer until we broke it free of the crud in the chamber.

WD 40 and a bore brush had our guy back on the firing line in 10 minutes and yes he'll pay more attention to what he puts in it and cleaning as well.

Now lets talk about pistols:

1911 any caliber, no alloy frame in 45 auto.

CZ 75/85

Star: BM, BKM, BK, firestar single stack only Have a Firestar in 9mm will still look for a 40 never sell it.

The FEG HP 35 clones are good but disapearing fast

Not a fan of the M9 but own a Taurus, not a bad gun once I trimmed 2 lbs of useless aluminum off the butt! Now feels like a 1911, ugly, but feels like a 1911.

only Sig I've ever shoot was a P210-6 target if I ever win the lottery I'll get one!

Only Two S&W auto's worth owning: Model 52 and Model 41 the rest are good fishing weights!

In the Future I may have a Poly framed gun, it has nothing to do with the material as much as it will depend on the design.

Not trying to upset anyone just pointing out my preference's and why!

Thanks HM, that's what the thread is about, not arguing, just sharing info/opinions.

[brtelec]

I worked at an indoor range many years ago and we had a Gen 1 Glock on the rental rack. By the time I left we had put over 150,000 rounds through that pistol without ever experiencing a failure. We were in Northern Va. and the guy from Glock came in one day and asked to see out pistol when he saw it on the rack. He disassembled it and the trigger pivot pin was broken and worn away. It never failed to function.

A customer brought me the Glock one day after using it on the range and when he handed it to me it was half way out of battery. Not locked back but half way back. When I took it down the recoil spring was broken in half and had screwed itself together so it was doubled and half it's length. I ask him when it broke and he said he did not have any idea what I was talking about. A couple of us took it out on the range and shot 50 rounds through it like this. It functioned flawlessly. You could feel that it was acting differently but it worked like a champ.

We had a lot of different semi-autos on that rack and I saw the best and the worst of most brands. You can base your opinions on what ever you like and that is fine, but I base my opinions on what I have seen and experienced. For me, most semi-auto pistols are great to show to your friends, but Glocks are for showing to your enemy.

That said I prefer a revolver.

[dragon813gt]

Not a Hater just could care less for the design ( safety in the trigger?? stoopid!)
I could not disagree more. It makes more sense then any other safety. Well besides what's between your ears. Nothing required to take the safety off. Don't want the gun to fire, don't pull the trigger. Makes complete sense to me.

[Dframe]

Colt Defender. I have two. One in 40 the other in 45.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Baby Eagle in 40

http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell_BabyDesertEagle.htm

[JHeath]

I had a Series 70 Gold Cup, and a Belgian Hi-Power, and they were both good pistols. I would take either over any polymer safety-trigger model, but I am old school. The Hi-Power needed a trigger job and the mag safety removed, that's all.


But honestly -- so far I like my M57/Tokarev more than either of those classics. It is very thin (I replaced the grip plates) steel, no bells/whistles. It has the potential to be my favorite, but I need to fiddle with it some more to be sure.

But sometimes I would rather sail a tattered pirate ship to its limits in a gale than putter comfortably in a cabin cruiser like a reasonable person, who would probably take the Gold Cup.

And the wind came, and bitter rain
Turning grey all the land
That was our game,
To fight with men and storms
And it was grand

[Murphy]

A good 1911 in .45 Auto, followed by both of Jerry Kuhnhausen 1911 Shop Manual books.

Once you have a good, full understanding of how the 1911 functions you will never regret it. It is the one handgun parts are readily available for 99% of the time.

Of the plethora of 1911's available in todays market, I would go with a Springfield Armory. The 'Lock' feature is in the mainspring housing and can be done away with with a simple change of the mainspring housing itself. And, I would choose a stainless steel model. As you pick and choose what options you want to add to the gun, you can easily use 400-600 grit wet or dry sand paper to make the finish match up.

If you don't want to tinker with the gun and just own a non polymer automatic, the Springfield Armory line is as good as any. But do pick up the Kuhnhausen manuals.

Just my 2 cent's....

Murphy

P.S. Long ago, I read where a fella said he was advised by and old timer on handguns for self defense. "Son, just pick yourself up a 1911 .45 and a S&W 5 shot J frame...it's all you'll ever need". I wish I had met that man, I would have saved a young fortune the past 35 years.

[Petrol & Powder]

Given a Glock I'd trade it as quickly as possible for any steel framed gun of good manufacturer!

Not a Hater just could care less for the design ( safety in the trigger?? stoopid!) But I am also not a fan of the AR platform either, spent 2 minutes pounding a empty out of an AR on Thanksgiving.

Typical: never cleaned, junk steel case ammo and no way to actually grab a good hold on the bolt retractor! applied tension to one side of retractor and beat on the other side with a ball peen hammer until we broke it free of the crud in the chamber.

WD 40 and a bore brush had our guy back on the firing line in 10 minutes and yes he'll pay more attention to what he puts in it and cleaning as well.

Now lets talk about pistols:

1911 any caliber, no alloy frame in 45 auto.

CZ 75/85

Star: BM, BKM, BK, firestar single stack only Have a Firestar in 9mm will still look for a 40 never sell it.

The FEG HP 35 clones are good but disapearing fast

Not a fan of the M9 but own a Taurus, not a bad gun once I trimmed 2 lbs of useless aluminum off the butt! Now feels like a 1911, ugly, but feels like a 1911.

only Sig I've ever shoot was a P210-6 target if I ever win the lottery I'll get one!

Only Two S&W auto's worth owning: Model 52 and Model 41 the rest are good fishing weights!

In the Future I may have a Poly framed gun, it has nothing to do with the material as much as it will depend on the design.

Not trying to upset anyone just pointing out my preference's and why!

HM, Although I respect your opinion, I don’t completely share your opinion. I have no illusions of changing your mind but I like your respectful tone. So here are some of my thoughts:

I didn’t care for Glocks for a long time. Originally for me; one black square profile slide, polymer framed, striker-fired, high capacity, semi-auto was the same as the next. It also took me a while to become comfortable with the trigger. However, I shot Glocks a lot and detailed stripped a few. I couldn’t deny the incredible simplicity, reliability and durability. They’re far from pretty but there’s no denying they work! The more I delve into the design the more I admire it. As a combat pistol it would be near the top of my list.
The H&K USP pistols are overly complex, overly expensive and the lock work is fragile. The only attraction I see to the Springfield XD is that for some people it fits the criteria of not being a Glock. Sorry if there are XD fans reading this, I not maligning the gun, I just can’t see why it is considered to be superior to the Glock.

I’m not a big fan of the AR platform. I don’t hate it - I just don’t like it. Stoner’s use of the direct gas impingement system may save a little weight but I don’t care for it even a little bit. Yes, they can be made to work but there are a lot better operating systems in my opinion. The H&K 416 addresses some of the issues, as do the SIG 550 series. The H&K 91 /93 does it even better IMHO.

I’ve had steel framed 1911’s and alloy framed 1911’s. They’re both fine and the alloy ones are lighter. I like the 1911 but I’m far from wedded to it.

We’re in agreement on the CZ 75, most of the Stars and the Browning Hi-power (including the good clones)!!!!

I carried a Beretta 92 for years and shot it a LOT. The Beretta is more complex and heavier than the Glock but it’s almost as reliable. I find some people disparage the Beretta simply because it’s not the 1911.

I don’t play the lottery but I did manage to get a P210 and I will never part with it! Nothing else is even in the same league.

We’re almost in agreement about S&W autos but I’d add the Model 645 / 4506 to your list of the models 52 & 41.

Intelligent people can disagree and civilized people disagree all of the time. I think it’s healthy.
Petrol & Powder

[MtGun44]

If you are looking for a really fine quality 1911, I have to recommend
the Dan Wessons. Folks make the mistake of comparing to Kimbers and
SAs when their real competition is way upmarket - Baer, Wilson, Heinie,
Nastoff, etc. You absolutely must feel the action on one to appreciate it.

Hand build finest grade guns if you are a mind for it. Every man ought
to have at least one really nice pistol. No connection to DW, other than
I know people at CZ. Just a very satisfied 1911 guy.

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-valor/

Bill

[Catshooter]

HeavyMetal and dragon, the Glock trigger safety is a drop safety. The weight of the trigger assembly can fire the pistol if dropped/thrown hard enough without it. It's not for your finger it's for inertia.


Cat

[Tn Jim]

1911 in 45 acp. I also own a Taurus PT-92 9mm that is scary accurate.

[nekshot]

kinda feel ashamed saying this but it is the truth from my perspective. I really like my astra constable 380!

[9.3X62AL]

SIG P-220 in 45 ACP, CZ-75B in 40 S&W, SIG P-226 in 9mm. Glocks are fine, also.

[lancem]

1911 and a BHP are two that I've had just short of forever. I've never owned a Glock, no reason just haven't. I do have a Kel-Tec in 40 S&W that is a great truck gun, and I've got a Walther PPS in .40 cal that I'm carrying more and more as it is so light and thin and comfortable to shoot.

[BCRider]

I could not disagree more. It makes more sense then any other safety. Well besides what's between your ears. Nothing required to take the safety off. Don't want the gun to fire, don't pull the trigger. Makes complete sense to me.

Yes. but there are some rare but documented cases of stuff getting caught in the trigger guard and causing a discharge. That's the issue that some of us have with the safety being "auto-releaseable" and mounted to the same part that actually fires the gun. It only takes one misplaced jab from something hitting that hinged safety lever to both remove the safety and pull the trigger all in the same action.

Non plastic semis for me means three single stack 1911's (one 9, two .45's), a CZ Shadow, a CZ pre-b style 75, a Beretta 92fs and a bevy of four .22 semi auto handguns. No plastic semis at all other than the plastic lower frame on the Ruger 22/45.

[Artful]

No one's mentioned the CZ52 yet?
7.62x25 hits like a hand held 30 carbine and swap in a 9x19 barrel for cheap cast shooting.
Buck Rogers would look natural holding one.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/CZ52_pistol_left_side.jpg

cost ya a mint to machine one of these today even with CNC

[HeavyMetal]

I appreciate input from both sides of the Glock "debate".

Never claimed the Glock was unreliable, far from it and it continues to amaze me wih it's popularity.

But, and this is one big but, the Glock and several clones are still designed with a Safety in the trigger.

Catshooter is correct it's there to keep the gun from fireing should it be "mishandled" in any way. Sadly the marketing genuis's at Glock are not describing it in that light and shame on them for that.

Bottom line for the Glock issue: Glock, last time I bothered to check, had about 75% of the Law enforcement market using thier product.

Glock also had about 80% of the AD Law suits filed in this country!

Massad Ayoob was very active, and might still be, as a LEO trainer and leagal advisor on things Gun for the countries court system and has had a number of interesting Glock interviews over the years.

I really like the one where he slaps his arm to fire his Glock, kind of a knee jerk / reflex fireing if you will. Ayoob's comment is simple and to the point: A Glock is easy to shoot and train with, it is also easy for anyone to pick up and use with zero training!

Considering the number of cops shot with thier own gun every year I do not understand the fascination between Glock's and LEO dept's.

Once again not trying to annoy anyone just pointing way I would never own a Glock.

[Outpost75]

I'm basically a wheelgun type of guy, and the only 9mm I own is an extra cylinder for my. 357 Blackhawk. But when a CZ52 with seven mags and a case of ammo was offered in a trade I grabbed it.

Sights dead-on at 100 yards with PPU Ball ammo and it cycles 100% with 5.5 grs. of Bullseye and RCBS 32-90CM cast of COWW, quenched from the mold and tumbled in LLA. Works for me.

Oh, I don't own an M1911 either, my favorite .45 is an S&W third model hand ejector Model of 1950 Military.

[9.3X62AL]

Considering the number of cops shot with thier own gun every year I do not understand the fascination between Glock's and LEO dept's.

1) They work--very well. 2) They seldom break. 3) The factory trains a HUGE cadre of armorers constantly--both within departments and in the private sector--to service these pistols. 4) Cost--they are BAR NONE the most pistol for the least money spent in existence. Departments that buy them en masse pay a pittance for the pistols, and Glock often gives generous allowances on current in-service arms they supercede. 5) Magazines are sole-sourced and are almost never faulty when new, and are inexpensive (there's that COST thing again). 6) Glock isn't tempermental with departments (or private buyers, for that matter) on the few warrantee issues that do crop up. Very Ruger-like in this respect, if you haven't used reloaded ammo or cast bullets in them (and they can prove it, or you cough it up to them).

That's a number of the reasons. I'm not a Gastonophile, but I do recognize and acknowledge a device that works well and reliably and has done so for almost 30 years. There is NO SUCH THING as a foolproof firearm, so fools should just stay the hell away from them.

[Petrol & Powder]

HeavyMetal, I think it's a safe bet that you're not going to own a Glock :razz: That's your choice and that's cool.
This thread is about non-polymer gun choices but a little drifting is fun, so I'll add a little to the drift.
9.3X62AL hit the nail on the head about the popularity of Glocks with Law Enforcement; cost and reliability are huge factors. Ease of training and durability are also important.
As for 75% of LE agencies using Glocks, that number sounds about right. I've heard all sorts of numbers tossed around but there's no doubt that Glocks have a huge public (and private) market share.
The 80% of Accidental Discharge law suits is a bit more troubling for me. For starters, anytime a percentage is quoted without the total numbers involved and the criteria known, it's a misleading number. If there were 10 AD law suits nationwide in a country of 317 Million people and 8 of those suits involved Glocks - that would be 80%.
I will say that suing someone that lives in public housing or under a freeway overpass isn't nearly as lucrative as suing someone with deep pockets, like say a state or local government agency. With a huge number of Glock pistols in the hands of public agencies, you're going to see a larger number of law suits. I don't think that number is indicative of a design flaw as much as it is an indicator of looking for deep pockets.
I've been around guns most of my life and I don't believe safeties do much to reduce accidental discharges. In fact, reliance on mechanical safeties may even be a factor in some AD's.
And, you're not annoying me even a little.

[lancem]

I've been around guns most of my life and I don't believe safeties do much to reduce accidental discharges. In fact, reliance on mechanical safeties may even be a factor in some AD's.


Don't want to drag this thread off track, but I just wanted to say I agree 100%. I say use them but never trust them.

[Clay M]

Currently it is the Ruger 1911 Commander. I always wanted a Commander. The size and balance makes it fun to handle and shoot.The 1911 has always been my favorite auto, but I keep a S&W MP .40 on my nightstand. Dependability, high capacity and point and shoot. Do I like the gun as much as my 1911?..No, but I would rather have it under siege.

[9.3X62AL]

Notwithstanding my above comments, I like steel and walnut in and on my firearms. The aluminum receivers on the SIG-Sauer pistols I cart around are all right, but I would prefer steel. To quote Mick Jagger--"You can't always get what you want....."

Ahem. "My favorite sideiron" is a tough choice--there are a number of makes and models I really like. I also have some regulations I am obliged to follow as far as carry choices are concerned, though those choices include many very good pistols and calibers. Push come to shove, my favorite autopistol is an example I'm not authorized to carry--the CZ-75B in 40 S&W. It has it all--reliability, ammo capacity, caliber power, durability, beautiful design (appearance matters, too), all-steel construction, and cast boolit-friendly with OEM barrel. I REALLY miss carrying this pistol CCW, and I still shoot it frequently.

I'll go one step farther, though--and pick out my most-carried CCW arm......S&W 686 x 4". It has been said that "The 30-06 is never a mistake." I agree, and I would say the same thing about the 357 Magnum, esp. if the cartridge is housed in a good-quality double-action revolver with 4" barrel. No platform type does so many things so well as this combination of traits/features. It may not be the single-best choice for a given venue, but it can do a creditable job in just about any venue the modern handgun is called upon to service. It's all-steel, too! :)

[rking22]

Another revolver kinda guy here. But , Beretta 84 and 86s are all metal and very nice( BB versions especially). I know they are "only" 380s but thats ok. Have a series 70 and cz75 clones. The CZ75 design is outstanding. I have noticed there are few if any CZ75 haters to be found... that says something ,I think. High Standard ,Browning Challenger as well as Ruger in 22 autos. Would love to find a nice S&W 41 too. I do have a plastic frame P22 , just prefer metal and walnut. Presently trying to resist an early 20s I frame 32, don't need it but want it real bad!

[Petrol & Powder]

Notwithstanding my above comments, I like steel and walnut in and on my firearms. The aluminum receivers on the SIG-Sauer pistols I cart around are all right, but I would prefer steel. To quote Mick Jagger--"You can't always get what you want....."

Ahem. "My favorite sideiron" is a tough choice--there are a number of makes and models I really like. I also have some regulations I am obliged to follow as far as carry choices are concerned, though those choices include many very good pistols and calibers. Push come to shove, my favorite autopistol is an example I'm not authorized to carry--the CZ-75B in 40 S&W. It has it all--reliability, ammo capacity, caliber power, durability, beautiful design (appearance matters, too), all-steel construction, and cast boolit-friendly with OEM barrel. I REALLY miss carrying this pistol CCW, and I still shoot it frequently.

I'll go one step farther, though--and pick out my most-carried CCW arm......S&W 686 x 4". It has been said that "The 30-06 is never a mistake." I agree, and I would say the same thing about the 357 Magnum, esp. if the cartridge is housed in a good-quality double-action revolver with 4" barrel. No platform type does so many things so well as this combination of traits/features. It may not be the single-best choice for a given venue, but it can do a creditable job in just about any venue the modern handgun is called upon to service. It's all-steel, too! :)

Steel & walnut have some real attraction!
And for favorite pistol, that's a tough one,...lots of choices.
If we go one more step and say favorite revolver, well I can't argue with the 4" barreled DA .357 other than say a 3" tube is almost as good and a little easier to pack. :drinks:

[rking22]

Interesting find on another thread. Alum frame ,hope Remington can get and keep the build quality. An original 51 is on my list of desirables.
http://www.gunblast.com/Remington-R51.htm
Another vote for the 4 inch 357 revolver. Right up there with a 3 inch 44 special.

[Petrol & Powder]

Interesting find on another thread. Alum frame ,hope Remington can get and keep the build quality. An original 51 is on my list of desirables.
http://www.gunblast.com/Remington-R51.htm
Another vote for the 4 inch 357 revolver. Right up there with a 3 inch 44 special.

VERY INTERESTING !

Many years ago I had a Remington model 51 in .380. Cool pistol but I couldn't find a hollowpoint that it would function with. It also had a very complex lock-work. Lots of very small machined parts. It was a good pistol with FMJ and I wished I could have held onto it but it had to go for economic reasons.
That new 9mm Model 51 looks like a potential winner.

[tygar]

First off let me start by saying, I'm in no way trying to start an argument here. Have just noticed a dislike for many things Glock, and I happen to like them. They're not my favorite pistols on my "dream" list, but "for me" they're very practical for "my" uses, affordable, easy to tinker with and repair, and if I lost one (got forbid) because I had to defend myself with it, it wouldn't break the bank.

So what do you guys shoot/own/like, that's a Semi Auto, and not Polymer, regardless of Caliber.

Let's hear it :Fire:

I kind of see a patern on Glocks. Its either love em or hate em. They are totally wrong for me. The way they feel, their blockiness, how you hold them to get a good site picture etc, & especially the trigger. Not only is their safety on the trigger but it has (at least the ones I shot) horrible, high poundage triggers.

Colt 1911 was the first center fire pistol I got, other than a .22. It was 1961 cause I got it from my Dad when I got into high school.

I've had way over 100+ 1911s & still have 15-20. This includes Colts, Kimbers, Dan Wesson, S&W, Para's 12-15, Also had the Long Slide(forgot the brand name}.

Started with the Colts, carried one in VN, kept getting all the configurations Gold Cups, Deltas, Officers in .40, Dan Wesson version of the Gold Cup then Kimbers came out & have had a few of them, but locked onto the Ultra Carry 3" when it came out & have carried it exclusively until the S&W 325PD came out.

So now I carry both & pick up which ever says nice things to me.

I also have the S&W 4013 & 4513 TSWs I would consider them but for the mag disconnect.

I also will carry Ruger 9mm w/laser & S&W 380 with laser if I'm just running up to the store & it's easier to slip them in a pocket.

So, 1911 .45acp for my personnel carry but I now carry the Smith 325PD more than the auto. I've timed it & it's just as fast using the moon clips as dropping a mag.

I actually like revolvers as much or better than autos in general. Actually every gun placed in their hiding places in my house are revolvers. That's for one reason - KISS! They are for sons, daughters, wife, grandkids, who can pick up any gun in the house & aim, pull trigger & not have to mess with an auto. (one exception, I have one downstairs in my reloading room which is a custom, tricked out Colt Commander.

The bottom line is, "what works for you". May not work for me. I know you are talking about autos but a good revolver should not be overlooked.

Basically everything I shoot at has hot 230s from Win Black Talons (still have a bunch) to the other PD loads & cast. For combat practice it is with 230s full pop in everything from 3" Kimber to 7"comped Para & 625s, 25s, 325pds. Practice with what you carry, no plinker loads for combat practice.

230s kick az. I usually shoot 3-5 autos when I shoot for combat practice, & 1 or 2 of my .45 revolvers & on occasion smaller calibers. The most important thing I can say is if it doesn't start with a "4" it's not big enough or powerfull enough. (I know - I on occasion carry pipsqueak guns but I really don't think it's the best option, but I'm lazy sometimes.

Usually shoot a box each. I have never had any real problems. A spring getting weak or the safety coming off from being worn, etc.

I've shot Glocks, H&Ks, Smiths, plus many more & the simple old Colt .45acp (or whatever is your taste in 1911s) is the best, "for me."

Spend the money to get a good gun, whatever your choice is don't get a cheap ***.

Tom

[9.3X62AL]

Tygar--

No argument with anything you posted. I'm another who favors full-tilt 230 grainers in the 45 ACP; my old shop specs the Winchester Ranger 230 SXT for carry, and I couldn't be happier. These run right at 900 FPS from a 5" barrel, and get about 875 FPS from my SIG's 4.4" tube. They have shown reliable expansion when extracted at autopsy or trauma room, and it only takes one or two to convey the message in most cases.

[osteodoc08]

92661

Sig P226 Tac Ops
That's 40 rds of WWB at 50' standing unsupported.

[osteodoc08]

92662

Here is as it sits right now, set up for HD use.

[tygar]

Tygar--

No argument with anything you posted. I'm another who favors full-tilt 230 grainers in the 45 ACP; my old shop specs the Winchester Ranger 230 SXT for carry, and I couldn't be happier. These run right at 900 FPS from a 5" barrel, and get about 875 FPS from my SIG's 4.4" tube. They have shown reliable expansion when extracted at autopsy or trauma room, and it only takes one or two to convey the message in most cases.
You bet. Seen plenty with 38s/.9mm in them keep coming but not 2 many with 1 or 2 45s in the heart locker keep coming, or for that matter 1 in the hip girdle will mess up their day.

[msp2640]

My additions, have shot many thousands of rounds thru 3 different SIGs, a 226 in 9, another in 40 and a 239 in 40. Never one fail to feed, eject or any other issue. I own a Kimber and S&W 1076 in 10mm and although they don't get shot often enough, I really like them and think the 1076 is the most accurate autoloader I've ever shot. I have no real affinity for polymer framed auto's especially Glocks and have also shot many thousands of rounds thru both a 19 and 22 when I was issued them. Eventhough I could never "warm" up to them, they also never failed to function properly. For a while, I did own a 23 and I just couldn't shoot it well (accuracy wise), so I sold it. Recently I did shoot a S&W M&P 45 and not quite sure of the specific model, but I did like it. Not enough to buy one, buy was much nicer than any other polymer semi I've shot before. Good luck in your search - Bill in MA

[Para82]

Springfield 1911 in 45acp, and Belgian Browning HP I bought at the Rod and Gun Club in Berlin Germany in 1982. The Browning will never be sold. love that pistol!

[snoopy]

Not a fan of Glocks, reliable yes, but butt UGLY! I'll take my Star PD in .45 and 459 smith in 9mm.

[Old Dawg]

EAA Witness

[kens]

Why nobody mentioned a Makarov?

[tygar]

My additions, have shot many thousands of rounds thru 3 different SIGs, a 226 in 9, another in 40 and a 239 in 40. Never one fail to feed, eject or any other issue. I own a Kimber and S&W 1076 in 10mm and although they don't get shot often enough, I really like them and think the 1076 is the most accurate autoloader I've ever shot. I have no real affinity for polymer framed auto's especially Glocks and have also shot many thousands of rounds thru both a 19 and 22 when I was issued them. Eventhough I could never "warm" up to them, they also never failed to function properly. For a while, I did own a 23 and I just couldn't shoot it well (accuracy wise), so I sold it. Recently I did shoot a S&W M&P 45 and not quite sure of the specific model, but I did like it. Not enough to buy one, buy was much nicer than any other polymer semi I've shot before. Good luck in your search - Bill in MA

Well to tell you the truth, I've had lots of failures to feed, stovepipes, short strips, mag out of battery, failures to extract, etc etc. That's why I shoot a lot, practice to fix problems. Most of us can shoot good, most don't have the second nature reflexes to fix a failure in an auto.

One of the things I practiced was failures, with dummy rounds inserted in mags by others so you had no idea when or what malfunction would occur, bad mags that won't hold open the slide, & on & on. THat is as important as that target accuracy or more so.

Also, more than 50% of my practice is point shooting. Point shooting from every possible position, back to target, on your knees, on your back etc etc, single, double tap, triple, multiple target, speed mag changes. 2 targets at the range one coming at you one going away, etc. What ever you can think of has happened plus lots you don't think of.

No shooting is "bullseye" aimed. The most would be front site acquisition as arm is extended. etc etc. ad nauseum.

Most of that practice is because of failures in autos plus the pointing & front site aiming skills which are for any hand gun. Guess how many of those problems I've had with a revolver...I can't remember but not many if any.

That's why the revolvers around the home. Kiss, Kiss, Kiss. How good do you think my wife is at clearing a jam? Not bad but she has to think. Thinking when SHTF ain't good! Another thing with women & others less skilled, they can get pretty good with (1) auto, but put another one in the mix that is slightly different & they have their finger in their ear.

If I'm going to war again, I want a 1911, if I'm going to the store, that .45 revolver is looking pretty good.

Sorry didn't mean to go on but these are important points to autos.
Tom

[glider]

OK, here's my 2 cents worth. A good quality 1911, any sig or a hi-power . A P229 in 40 is in the nightstand and I never go to the range without at least 1 1911. The hi-power is just one of those things that everyone should have . Since you asked about non plastic I wont say how much I like my wife's Kahr PM9. I have far more revolvers than autos but you didn't ask about those.

[Fire_Medic]

OK, here's my 2 cents worth. A good quality 1911, any sig or a hi-power . A P229 in 40 is in the nightstand and I never go to the range without at least 1 1911. The hi-power is just one of those things that everyone should have . Since you asked about non plastic I wont say how much I like my wife's Kahr PM9. I have far more revolvers than autos but you didn't ask about those.

I recently acquired a K38 and have been bitten by the revolver bug, so I would gladly love to hear anything you might have to add there.

[Artful]

Why nobody mentioned a Makarov?

You just did - I didn't 'cuz I would take other guns ahead of it - but I won't sell mine.
Just wish I had bought one of the East German ones when they were cheaper. :roll:

[ColterB]

I have a Beretta 92FS. It is a very reliable pistol, it is accurate, and recoil is very minimal. That said, it is heavy and as time has gone on I have become less satisfied with the safety. I will say that while shooting "donated" ammo, I have "blown it up" with a case head failure three times, and a few minutes of reassembly has put it back in action without needing any new parts. The trigger spring is a design flaw, but Wolff makes an aftermarket option that fixes it.

I have owned a Hi Power in the past. I firmly believe that either it, or the P08 Luger, is the single most over-rated pistol in history. I have literally nothing good to say about it. It is heavy, the grip is unreasonably wide for as low as the capacity is, the trigger mechanism is overly complicated (reminds me of a Luger in a way) and not conducive to a smooth pull, it has a manual safety that is stiff, and in order to make it even resemble what might be considered a decent firearm you have to take parts out of it from the factory to disable that magazine disconnect. There are few aftermarket sight options. Magazines are absurdly expensive for new ones. I can't think of anything to list as a positive attribute. It is one of only two guns I have ever sold because of performance issues.

I have a Heckler & Koch P7 PSP and am satisfied. It is an interesting design, the trigger is excellent, recoil is stiff and actually reminds me of a revolver in the way it feels. It does get hot after extended shooting, but it isn't really designed to be a "blasting gun". If the heat bothers you, wear gloves. I like the simple action, and have introduced several new shooters to handguns with it. Cast bullets might be an issue with the gas retarded blow back, though.

The CZ75BD I have not owned, but if one comes along at the right price I definitely will. It solves the issue I had with the Beretta 92FS by having only a decocker. Bore axis is low, trigger is excellent. Low reciprocating mass. What's not to love?

I don't care for the SIG P226. Bore axis is too high, and it is generally just a clunky pistol in my opinion. Aligning the sights feels like you're trying to balance a plate on a pool stick... they're just too far above your hand. Assuming a thumbs forward grip almost guarantees that the slide is not going to lock back on empty. It sort of falls in the same boat as the Hi Power. I can't think of anything good to say.

P08 Luger... I dislike it even more than a P226 or Hi Power. Awful pistol. This is the other pistol I sold because I disliked it so much.

Walther P38. If you find a shooter grade one, jump all over it. They are really a joy to shoot. Not a practical pistol, but very fun. The later Walther P1 is not bad, but having both to compare, the P38 feels more balanced in the hand and under recoil.

Everyone has their opinion on the 1911. I have a cheap one, and haven't shot it in over two years. It has not impressed me enough to even bother dragging it to the range.

Of course, if I am doing anything with a pistol that actually matters, I'll take a Glock or S&W M&P any day. That might give you an idea of what I look for in a pistol.

[glider]

I recently acquired a K38 and have been bitten by the revolver bug, so I would gladly love to hear anything you might have to add there.

You have one of the better revolvers. I'll give you my opinions on a few things that will get some folks worked up. Revolvers are as a rule more accurate than pistols, They usually have a much better trigger and they will shoot just about anything you care to load for them. They are more reliable than most pistols and the range of calibers and loads are much much better. This is big, you don't have to pick up your brass. Down side is they are harder to conceal for carry and they don't have the capacity of some pistols. I love my pistols but if I had to choose between them and my revolvers I'd keep my revolvers.

[kens]

Someone posted that there is no negatives about the CZ75.
The CZ75 is basically a cloned Hi-Power made in double action.
And, someone posted that 'you are never under gunned with a HiPower'

[Petrol & Powder]

Someone posted that there is no negatives about the CZ75.
The CZ75 is basically a cloned Hi-Power made in double action.
And, someone posted that 'you are never under gunned with a HiPower'

The CZ75 has a grip similar to a Hi-power and operated with the same tilting barrel /Browning short recoil system but that's about where the similarities stop. The CZ slide rides inside the frame rails, the trigger on the CZ is different, no magazine safety and a of course it has DA capability.
The Browning and the CZ are both good pistols, in my opinion. They are both older designs with the Browning being much older but they both have good histories. Since this thread is titled "So What, non-polymer Semi-auto" ? I'll say that despite the excellent design and construction of the Browning, it would no longer be my 1st pick for a self defense gun. I'm proficient with "cocked & locked" single action pistols and have carried them but I think there are better choices available. I'm not saying it's a bad pistol, in fact I really like them, just not the top of the list for SD.

[Fire_Medic]

You have one of the better revolvers. I'll give you my opinions on a few things that will get some folks worked up. Revolvers are as a rule more accurate than pistols, They usually have a much better trigger and they will shoot just about anything you care to load for them. They are more reliable than most pistols and the range of calibers and loads are much much better. This is big, you don't have to pick up your brass. Down side is they are harder to conceal for carry and they don't have the capacity of some pistols. I love my pistols but if I had to choose between them and my revolvers I'd keep my revolvers.

I appreciate your input sir, and the point you bring up about the brass is precisely one of the major reasons why I wanted a revolver as a range gun amongst some other reasons. As for the simplicity of operation that's another reason. A with three children now, it's much harder for the wife and I to both get out to shoot together, so she's not having as much practice with the semi autos as she use to.

Gabe

[tygar]

You have one of the better revolvers. I'll give you my opinions on a few things that will get some folks worked up. Revolvers are as a rule more accurate than pistols, They usually have a much better trigger and they will shoot just about anything you care to load for them. They are more reliable than most pistols and the range of calibers and loads are much much better. This is big, you don't have to pick up your brass. Down side is they are harder to conceal for carry and they don't have the capacity of some pistols. I love my pistols but if I had to choose between them and my revolvers I'd keep my revolvers.

Everything you say is correct, same as I said. They are more trouble to conceal, especially when compared to tiny pistols, like pocket nines & 380s, but not any more than Commander size 1911s. I carry the N frame 325pd more than 1/2 the time & when the proper holster is used & the proper shirt, it's not bad. I've never had anyone notice it, even police I have dealt with.

What I would not necessarily agree with is revolvers over pistols. It depends on the use you are comparing them on.

I'm a revolver guy as I said, & like them a lot, agree they are, in general, more accurate, easier to shoot, basically idiot proof, etc etc,. But they are not a good choice for combat when compared to 1911s. They are much easier to get dirty so that they won't work. Just a little krap in the cylinder, pawl or several other areas will lock up a cylinder.

You can get a 1911 to shoot that has been totally trashed, mudded, stomped, dropped etc. In combat that is paramount.

So other than for that, S&Ws from 22-.500. Way to go.

I still have a M15 .38 I've had since the 60s or 70s. It shot 10 ring at 25yds with 2" brl & is now being carried by my son in law & still shoots great. All those old 38s/357s were great guns.

[ColterB]

The CZ75 has a grip similar to a Hi-power and operated with the same tilting barrel /Browning short recoil system but that's about where the similarities stop. The CZ slide rides inside the frame rails, the trigger on the CZ is different, no magazine safety and a of course it has DA capability.
The Browning and the CZ are both good pistols, in my opinion. They are both older designs with the Browning being much older but they both have good histories. Since this thread is titled "So What, non-polymer Semi-auto" ? I'll say that despite the excellent design and construction of the Browning, it would no longer be my 1st pick for a self defense gun. I'm proficient with "cocked & locked" single action pistols and have carried them but I think there are better choices available. I'm not saying it's a bad pistol, in fact I really like them, just not the top of the list for SD.

Thank you. One of the most often repeated fallacies in the gun world. To call a CZ75 a clone of a Hi Power is like calling a GP100 a clone of a Single Action Army..... they just don't have all that much in common at all.