Herter's Model 3 Improved

[Pressman]

In the course of skeet028 and my conversation he mention that he has two that he got from Herter's in the very last days of their existence,
I have one, a first model that someone painted an ugly gray. Really ruins its collector value.

I have a friend and fellow Herter's collector that has managed to find an example of the second model but it has a replacement ram. Neither of us have found, nor seen, a red one as pictured in my avatar and the Herter's catalog.

Locating good examples of these two presses is at the very top of my wish list.

Ken

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[skeet028]

Meant to ask you in the last PM..do you know who made those presses for Herter's? I know that the older presses like the Super M-3 were made by companies like Lachmiller etc. But I had an idea they were made for them by Bair..but I never was quite sure. Also kinda reminds me of RCBS too. In fact I have another press under the bench back east that looks almost like this press...cept it is a tool room sample or a one off. Painted a kind of green.. I used one of the presses I got from Herter's back around 1980..but the other is still sitting in the storage barn in Md in the box. Gotta close that place and sell the farm around it..but family is taking care of it. Heating and cooling that building is not getting any cheaper either. When I get back there I may just bring it back to Wyoming. If you had any inside info on Herter's GLH was kinda keeping a low profile towards the last..he even quit writing ad copy. He talked just about like his catalog sounded

[LUBEDUDE]

Pressman- that Model 3- I sure reminds me of my Herters Model Super O. Mind you that it has been in storage for quite some time, and I'm relying on my memory which is not good.

Any connection there?

[TreeKiller]

They looks like the Model O"Super Maximun Power Reloading Tool on page 481-482 of the 1970 catalog except for the linkage in the catalog picture. They say that the Model O" has a punch press type toggle action. Shipping weight 32# $32.95

[Pressman]

Herter's had their presses made by a large number of foundry's and machine shops. They sent plans out for bid. But, that was more the norm after 1960. From 1953 through 1960 it seems all the presses were made by Bystrom Foundry. Bystrom is also connected to Richard Wells when he left Herter's to start RF Wells, Minnesota Shooters Supply, Bytrom line of reloading tools.

In the very early days there was a connection between Herter's and Dunbar, what that involved is unknown.

Lachmiller had their press, powder measure and primer seater on the market about a year and a half before Herter's came out with the Model 3. If there was an actual connection between the companies is unknown but Herter's was known to liberally "borrow" other press designs. This is clearly evident in the Shotgun presses. Another point is the color the early presses were painted. The first Model 3's were dark green, that changed to a brown with a reddish tint. Model 3's and Model 243 turret presses are found in this color. The Model 81, double ram, was introduced at the same time but is seldom seen with the reddish paint. They are all in what became known as Herter's brown.
Much later at the end of the Krupp American period there were green Model 3's just marked Model 6 with no name.

The intriguing question is the who designed the Model O Super. It is a completely different press than the Model 3 based presses. Larger, stronger with a roller bearing linkage that could be re positioned for swagging. Yet it did not have a removable bushing for swagging dies.

The Model 3 Improved was Herter's finally effort to upgrade the reloading tool line, to modernize it. Also included in that effort was the Rifleman press, an RCBS Jr3 clone. But it was too late, the company was in trouble and closed the doors in 1981.

Ken

[LUBEDUDE]

Thanks Treekiller and Ken, interesting stuff.

[Reg]

Pressman
Richard Wells--- RF Wells and the connection. Sure wish you would get cracking on that book about Herters. Still say I want one of the first copy's !!!!!!

[skeet028]

Well I knew about the Wells connection and do have some Bystrom dies I also have a Herters super model 3 around here with a Lachmiller handle. Fit right on..Can't remember where I got the Lachmiller parts though. And of course Lachmiller was bought out by RCBS at their end..Had a guy offer me a Lachmiller shell sizer in 20 ga at the last gun show i did in Cody Wy..It was even complete. He wanted 450 bucks for it.. I didn't feel they were worth that even when new.

[Pressman]

450 is a lot of money for any reloading tool. They turn up on eBay from time to time, though mostly in 12 gauge. Maybe 35-40 is a good price.
I had not tried to fit a Lachmiller handle to a Herter's, I will have to try that.
The reloading tool industry is not that large and there was a personal connection between all the prominent players in the 50's and 60's. They all new each other personally. And they were all unique characters in their own way. George Herter and Deitmeyer were the two names that everyone then considered a bit out there. Still, they ran very successful operations, made money and gave us some great products. As the industry began to consolidate in the mid 1970's they were instrumental in buying the smaller companies for their products or as an attempt to gain market share.
It is a shame that none of the old names are run by the offspring of the founders. Lyman stayed around the longest, but that changed too.

In a way Herter's is still with us though today it is called Cabala's.

If you ever have a chance to talk to someone who is retired from the industry it is amazing the storied they can tell.

Ken

[skeet028]

Just wondering if anyone here knows when GL Herter died? He tried to sell the company at the last as noone in the family wanted to run it. He was the one that had the whole business mainly in his head. Many of the items they sold were only available from them. He created a market for many of the items they sold with his hype. The last catalogues were nowhere near as entertaining as the ones written by him. Herter's name was bought by Cabela's as well as the decoy line and some other stuff. I still have some of the Chamois cloth shirts I got there many many years ago. Just found a couple of books and fishing flies etc etc still in the packages I got when they were closing their doors. I also found one duck call in the box I got for 75 cents. It works but was marked as a second. One day it may be worth a lot of money...LOL!! That was a fypo on the shell sizer..45 dollars. He eventually sold it(not to me) for 15 bucks...about what it was worth. Herter's sold the Dunbar as the Model 9? it was a modified Dunbar press that the Glass works got rid of in the 60's at a loss by the way. They had a bunch of partially completed presses that they finished up in a cheaper manner than what they had sold. Dunbars were and are still good presses

[Pressman]

The current CEO of Cabala's bought Herter's and moved the company to Mitchell South Dakota. George was out of the company after that. For a number of reasons they were never able to make the company run successfully and it folded in the spring of 1981. George Leonard Herter (24 May 1911 – 5 July 1994) of Waseca, Minnesota was the founder of the Herter's outdoor goods business and an author. I found this by doing a Google search.

Herter's first Model 9 "H" press was sold at the same time as the first Dunbar's, when Dunbar was still made by Dunbar Glass. The presses are not identical but very close in design. The Dunbar is more refined. So, did Dunbar make the Model 9? I am inclined to think not. George could have copied the design and had it made locally as a less expensive model. The differences in construction lead to this thinking.

But, Dunbar also sold a powder measure - and so did Herter's, that are identical. We know it as the Herter's Model 39 with its massively over engineered base. Dunbar used a smaller base that clamped to a shelf, that Herter's did not sell. The Herter's was painted green and the Dunbar kind of a grey/tan color. The Herter's Model 41 measure is a variation of the Model 39 that uses a B&M type drop tube. Herter's continued to sell these measures long after the Model 9 was dropped from the catalog and replaced with the Model 3, along with a full page of hype explaining with the Model 3 design was superior to the "H" and Hollywood designs.

The question is where did the powder measure come from? Who made it? I cannot find any reference to it anywhere. It's design looks to have been made by an outside third party.

The top picture is a little known variation of the Model 39, one designed to work on the 243 Turret press.

Bottom is the Dunbar.

92695

92696

[rpludwig]

bringing back fond memories!

started reloading in early 60's, Herters #3 C-style press (green), powder scale (beam balance on piano wire-green), and Herters powder measure....loaded .22hornet, 7.7jap and .243win...as I recall. Still have some Herter's dies laying around....

always been fond of green....thus now RCBS...