Colt SAA Clones

[jumbeaux]

Looking for opinions on the best quality Colt SAA clones. I have read that the Cimarron's are better fitted than the standard Ubertia. Prefer an all steel model...what do y'all recommend ?

rick

[RichardSATX]

I'm interested in the responses too.

[Bent Ramrod]

I have two Cimarrons by Uberti, a 7-1/2" in .32-20 and a 4-3/4" in .45 Colt. I also have a dual cylinder Flat Top Target copy by Uberti (with Stoeger markings on the barrel) in .44-40/.44 Spl.

As far as I can see, there is nothing to chose between them for fit, quality of manufacture or accuracy potential. The Flat Top Target is a little slicker in cocking and trigger action, but it does have a wider trigger than the cowboy models. I don't know whether this model gets a little extra attention because of its target function or whether it was just the vagaries of mass production.

With Cimarron you get a wider selection of finishes and I like the serif lettering they use on the barrels. It makes the gun look more "period." I also prefer their option of the older model frame, with the screw to hold the cylinder axle and the bullseye ejector pad. But these are style considerations. I wouldn't refuse another Uberti because it lacked these features, if I needed one.

[w5pv]

I have a SSA Uberti in the Colt 45 and love it.Got it a couple of 3 to 4 months ago and have over a 1000 rounds through the tube.The point of aim is a little to the left at 40 yrds but that is me I think.I am a shaky old man but still like to shoot.Would not hesitate to get another one.In fact I will when I can catch the old woman not looking I plan to buy a 44 magum this will go to my grand son when old enough to handle the 44.

[pmer]

I had a matte finished Uberti of recent manufacture where the cylinder pin could be slid towards the hammer as a saftey feature. It had nice sized throats, pretty good trigger and overall decent feeling revolver for the price. It shot a little to the left.

One day I bumped into a used USFA Rodeo for the price of the Uberti and I sold the Uberti for the USFA. Holding the two side by side I could tell USFA was a better built revolver, just on target all the way around with nice throats and excellent trigger. Looking at GB for USFAs I got a great deal to. Last I heard the USFA SAA are still out of production though.

[square butte]

Bent Ramrod - Wondering if you have measured the chamber throats in your 32-20? Am considering buying a Cimarron in 32-20 and wondered if there might be any chamber issues. Have another Cimarron in 44 spec. with an oversize chamber - An 1866 lever

[Bent Ramrod]

I've never measured the chamber throats. I size all the boolits for the gun to 0.314" which seems to work fine. I use either a Lee Factory Crimp or a CH Taper Crimp die as my final loading operation.

[MtGun44]

USFA is top notch, just bought a really nice one, but they are out of print. The guy that used
to make these beautiful revolvers is making that ugly and silly looking Zip gun. Just hard
to imagine.

I'll be interested in the Cimarron vs Uberti discussion, myself.

Bill

[Larry Gibson]

Take a hard look at the Uberti Cimarron "Evil Roy" model. It's made right. Mine is very smooth, tight and well fitted and finished. Throats pin out at .452 which is excellent for the .451 barrel. Spare 45 ACP cylinder also pins out at .452. I like both it and the Uberti Cimarron Artillery Model I've had for 23 years.

Larry Gibson

9218992190[ATTACH=CONFIG]92191

[btroj]

Dang Larry, your snakes carry? I knew there was a reason I didn't live in the desert.

[jmort]

The Evil Roy has a factory action job and coil springs and you can get it directly from Evil Roy if you so desire. I like the F.A.P F.LLI. Pietta clones but really they are all good. I believe you must/should get one "tuned" and I think the guns sold by Long Hunter are are great value. I especially like the Taylor Runnin' Iron (Urberti) with the lower/wider hammer spur. Long Hunter tunes them up real good.

http://www.longhunt.com/taylor/runniniron.htm

http://www.longhunt.com/

I'm saving up for an EMF Pietta 1873 "Alchimista" II which has lower hammer spur and the 1860 grip. I really like the 1860 grip on the 1873 frame

http://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/-Alchimista-II-c294.htm

[Chihuahua Floyd]

I've bought 4 of the Uberties, love my 45s. Don't know how many thousands of rounds I have put thru them.
Also have a Hawes Great Western in 357, probably the first SSA Clone.
CF

[ReloaderFred]

My wife shoots EMF Great Western II's, made by Pietta. In the past five years, she's probably put about 5,000 rounds of .38's through them in SASS matches. Her guns were tuned for her, and she's never had a problem with either of them.

As with almost all SAA clones, the front sights are meant to be filed down for point of aim for the ammunition chosen. I did her front sights and both pistols will hold tiny little groups at regular handgun distances.

Hope this helps.

Fred

PS: I shoot Blackhawks myself.

[robertbank]

Dang Larry, your snakes carry? I knew there was a reason I didn't live in the desert.

You took the words right out of my mouth! I hate snakes so much I made some .45Colt snake loads up and there isn't a rattler within 500 miles from here.

To the OP I have a El Patron by Uberti in .357mag and really like it. I also have a Beretta Stampede in .45Colt and just ordered a Uberti Cattleman in .45Colt. All three are excellent 1873 reproductions and from I can see compare to anything coming out of the Blue Dome at 1/3 the price. I also have a Ruger Flattop Convertible in .45acp/.45Colt. A different SA to be sure and the stoutest to be sure. I prefer the 4 3.4 barreled guns because they seem to balance better than the 5.5". Your mileage may vary.

Take Care

Bob

[waco]

I have the evil Roy as well, great gun. It's my first and only SAA clone.
Super slick action and sweet trigger as stated.

[Love Life]

USFA are the top of the food chain for SAA clones, or any SAA. They brought Colt's SAA prices down significantly.

If you're in idiot you'll sell a sweet USFA to buy a genuine Colt SAA, but hey, it's got a pony on it....

[JHeath]

Two above posted that their Ubertis shoot slighty to the left.

I seem to recall that some manufacturers allow revolver sights to be "timed" by tightening the barrel slightly in the frame. This would bring the POI to the right.

Is it possible that Uberti deliberately indexed the sights leaving room for this adjustment?

I am also interested in hearing owner's experience with Cimarron vs. plain Uberti.

[wrench man]

I've got an Uberti 1873 CATTLEMAN, it's a fine revolver, only thing I had to compare it to was the Taurus "Gaucho" that it replaced, the Taurus was total ***! compared to the Uberti, I'd buy another Uberti if I found one that spoke to me, I'll NEVER! buy another Taurus ever again!

[TCStehle]

Very informative thread. I'm looking for my first single action revolver myself. Any opinions on the EAA Bounty Hunters? Not really Colt SAA clones exactly but I'm looking for a simple, serviceable, budget friendly SA in 45 Colt. I've found mixed reviews on them but that's usually the case with every manufacturer/importer.

[robertbank]

Very informative thread. I'm looking for my first single action revolver myself. Any opinions on the EAA Bounty Hunters? Not really Colt SAA clones exactly but I'm looking for a simple, serviceable, budget friendly SA in 45 Colt. I've found mixed reviews on them but that's usually the case with every manufacturer/importer.

If you can afford just a little but more get the Uberti El Patrone or Evil Roy. Both are slicked up by the factory and are outstanding guns that give nothing away to the Colt made SAA. I have the El Patrone in the .357mag and really think it is a cut above Ubertis other products all of which are very good. The El Patrone is just been slicked up more for Cowboy Action. You won't be disappointed. I intend to buy one in 45 Colt for my next purchase.


Take Care

Bob

[jmort]

"Both are slicked up by the factory..."

In the end having gun tuned by someone like Long Hunter is better way to go than "factory."
Long Hunter does all the following:

- OUR PRICE INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING CUSTOM WORK -

1.

Hone all internal parts
2.

Replace all springs with Lee's "Gunslinger Spring Kit"
3.

Rework sear and hammer for crisp 2 1/2lb trigger pull
4.

Open forcing cone to 11 degrees
5.

Square barrel face
6.

Check cylinder gap and head space
7.

Set timing and advance bolt drop

Factory will include coil springs but not forcing cone and I doubt factory includes most of the rest and what is factory will be done at a lower grade. If you have a gun he will do an action job for $135.00
http://www.longhunt.com/gunsmithing/colt.htm

I had Lee's do one of my single actions and it was worth every penny. Too bad they only do black powder now.

[robertbank]

I would be all over that with my new Cattleman but living north of the 49th makes it near impossible to ship the gun down to you thanks to all the cross border BS that we are now faced with.

Take Care

Bob

[Larry Gibson]

I would be all over that with my new Cattleman but living north of the 49th makes it near impossible to ship the gun down to you thanks to all the cross border BS that we are now faced with.

Take Care

Bob

Isn't that the truth! Have to cross the border twice one way to visit daughter in Point Roberts.....have Nexus but it's still a pain. Have to strip search the PU and RV to make sure not one single cartridge case of any kind is there....always harder coming back into my own country than into Canada.......go figure........PITA for sure........

Larry Gibson

[jmort]

Canada must have some real good gunsmiths who do single actions.

[Walstr]

Buy USA & consider the Ruger New Vaquero's. I heard from shooters, it's twice the gun made overseas & you need a mic to tell the diff from a Colt SA. Very sturdy for entering the CAS addiction!

[robertbank]

Buy USA & consider the Ruger New Vaquero's. I heard from shooters, it's twice the gun made overseas & you need a mic to tell the diff from a Colt SA. Very sturdy for entering the CAS addiction!

I have to say BS on the "made overseas" comment. The Rugers are nice but do require work if you want them to shoot well. Typically the cylinder throats are way to tight for shooting lead. The cylinder throats on my two Rugers were .002 undersized and required reaming. Uberti SAA are every bit as good as anything Colt makes and sell for 1/3 of the price. I have to say buying virtually anything in the way of consumer products from the US is hit and miss at best. Probably true with most of what is produced today from most countries. Just because it has one countries name on it doesn't mean it is a superior product. Beretta owns Uberti and Beretta has been making forearms before Colt and Winchester were glints in their father's eyes.

Take Care

Bob

[felix]

Every stinking revolter in the closet has a problem because I am the judge about what specs are not up to felix's specs. So, the truth be known, I'm the problem and so it is up to me to find the "load" for it. The rules on this board clarify which problem can be fixed easily, and those which require professional help by whomever. ... felix

[birch]

The cat is officially out of the bag!!!

[35 Whelen]

There are at the moment five Uberti's/Cimarron's (they're one and the same, you know) in this household, and not a bad one in the lot. I have a pair of .44 Specials and I LOVE them and killed three deer with one of them this year. I polished the innards and replaced the mainspring and the bolt spring on the .44's. They're well made and amazingly accurate.

There's also a NM Vaquero 45 Colt that I bought almost new a year or so ago. The bolt dropped way too early scratching a line on the cylinder so I had to make a new hammer plunger to alleviate that problem. The cylinder throats were undersized which caused crappy accuracy so I had to have them reamed out. The factory plastic grips could've been used to strip barnacles from the hull of an oil tanker. And when I first shot it, it hit 4" left of aim at 25 yds. so I had to slightly bend the front sight to correct that problem. So now I have almost enough $$$$ in it to buy TWO Uberti's and the only thing that it'll do that a Uberti won't is handle slightly heavier loads.

35W

[Silver Jack Hammer]

35 Whelen, with those plastic grips that have the checking too sharp, just do like I do when I get a new Colt. Take sandpaper to the plastic until the checking has been smoothed out to your liking. It's easy, doesn't cost anything and you don't have to wait for it.

[taco650]

This has been an interesting thread. I've seen 35W's kill pics with his 44 Special and it sure is enough gun. Also saw a NM Ruger Vaquero 45colt in the gs the other day. It looked pretty interesting but I didn't have the $599 they wanted for it so it stayed in the case. Would like to get a 45 colt as a fun gun but think the colt clone won't be strong enough for the loads I'd like to shoot. Guess I've been shooting 44 mags too long LOL! Need to do some more shopping before deciding.

[The Virginian]

If you can get USFAs on the secondary market, they are even superior to any Colt that rolled out of Hartford. Too bad they are not making them now. Of the Italian imports, all of them are very good now since they have improved machining and metals, but one that is hand tuned like the one mentioned earlier will handle better. I have had great luck with Taylors and Company out of Winchester Virginia. They import them and even have a tuned Uberti SAA offering. Pietta is good, but is so whimpy they won't even put the patent dates in the frame.

[Vulcan Bob]

I have two 3 1/2" Uberti Thunderers that I shot with full power (8.0gr of Unique, 250gr LRNFP) loads for six years of Cowboy Action match's. didn't do a thing to em, just shot em box stock and they gave me no problems at all and are still as tight now as they were new. Cylinder throats are .454"-.455" on both but for some reason they shot .452's just fine.

[robertbank]

I have two 3 1/2" Uberi Thunderers that I shot with full power (8.0gr of Unique, 250gr LRNFP) loads for six years of Cowboy Action match's. didn't do a thing to em, just shot em box stock and they gave me no problems at all and are still as tight now as they were new. Cylinder throats are .454"-.455" on both but for some reason they shot .452's just fine.

Now that is great to hear. I intend to carry either of my two Uberti .45Colts for bear protection and 8 gr of Unique is my chosen load under a 255 gr LSWC. I also have a Ruger but if I got to do some hiking the Ruger weighs in heavier than the SAA. If 8 gr of Unique won't kill what I am facing using that bullet I am on the wrong continent.

Take Care

Bob

[Char-Gar]

Before USFA was USFA, it was USPFA and made their sixguns "under the blue dome" from Uberti parts. Some say these Italian parts were soften than American parts and wore out sooner. I can't say for certain is this is true or now as I have only had this one since 1995 and it shows no signs of any wear. If it shows up, I will just replace the offending part, but I am dubious I will ever have to do that.

[jmort]

"Full power" for 250 grain lead boolit is 9.5 grains and keep to SAAMI spec. I would go to 9 grains with the 255 grain SWC as Unique likes the upper end of its range.

[Char-Gar]

"Full power" for 250 grain lead boolit is 9.5 grains and keep to SAAMI spec. I would go to 9 grains with the 255 grain SWC as Unique likes the upper end of its range.

"Full power" is a term that means whatever the user wants it to mean. To duplicate the original black powder loading requires somewhere between 8 and 9 grains of Unique, depending on the individual firearm and it's specs. I tend to like 8.5 grains of unique over the 250-260 grain cast bullets.

For many years the various ammo factories loaded 6.5 grains of Bulleye and it is still a good load.

[robertbank]

My bullet mold is very similar to Lyman's 452424 boolit only casts out a tad heavier using WW alloy. Max load listed for Unique is 8.5 gr. With my wrists the recoil from this load is all I need. One gr of powder just increases the hurt factor with little in the way of additional performance. :wink: Hell any bear I see likely isn't going to notice the difference.


Take Care

Bob

[jmort]

Alliant lists 9.5 grains for 250 grain lead boolit. I don't like to red-line, but we are only talking about 14k psi max. For me, full power means maximum load for gun, in this case, 14k psi.

[Char-Gar]

Years ago, I tried 9.5 grains of Unique under the above mentioned bullet in a pair of Colt New Service revolvers and got flat primers and sticky extraction. That is when I dropped back to 8.5.

Pistol are individuals and while some may tolerate red line loads, others will not. The fact that the load was not excessive in Alliants tests means nothing in your revolver.

If I can't kill it with 8.5, it won't be killed with 9.5. All the extra grain of powder will do is create more wear and tear on the sixgun, create more recoil and cost more money.

[jmort]

"...got flat primers and sticky extraction..."

That is why I said "maximum load for gun" as you had no choice under the circumstances. I find most of the complaints people have with Unique go away or are minimized at the higher end. When I had .45 Colts, they were Rugers so it was never an issue, but I went with 9 grains with a 255 SWC when the gun could take more. I'm not one for maximum loads/"full power."

[The Virginian]

I think it is a mistake to redline the gun or the cases in any handloading excercise. To me accuracy with good performace is paramount. The modern clones of the SAA can take more than the original because of the modern steel construction, but make no mistake, no matter who makes it, the SAA is still a 19th century design and has its limits.

[robertbank]

I think it is a mistake to redline the gun or the cases in any handloading excercise. To me accuracy with good performace is paramount. The modern clones of the SAA can take more than the original because of the modern steel construction, but make no mistake, no matter who makes it, the SAA is still a 19th century design and has its limits.

Truer words were never spoken. The design though is solid within the limits of the gun. Rugers will take more but are heavier make no mistake. Charles makes a good point , I have been there facing a rather large Black Bear with a 1911 in my hands loads with 200 gr LSWC at 165 PF. Now he went his way eventually and I went mine. That said he would not have survived the encounter had it got personal. 8.5 gr of Unique under the 255 gr bullet would be sufficient for most encounters. Has worked in the past and the bruins aren't any bigger.

Take Care

Bob

[The Virginian]

I have seen black bears go right down with a 1911 loaded with 255 Keith LSWC in .45 ACP cases loaded to about 825 fps. I know of one person who took one with one shot with a 200 grain XTP bullet in a 1911 in .45 ACP. Shot placement with a black bear matters more that what you are shooting them with starting at 357 magnum and up.

[Vulcan Bob]

You are quite correct Sir, the term "full power" was to imply that it was a factory ammo equivalent load as by Winchester and Remington. However in SASS events that load was a cannon! My normal .45 Colt load these days is a 270gr LSWC around 900fps using Power Pistol powder.
"Full power" for 250 grain lead boolit is 9.5 grains and keep to SAAMI spec. I would go to 9 grains with the 255 grain SWC as Unique likes the upper end of its range.

[Ubet]

I use a pair of Cimarron Frontier revolvers for Cowboy Fastdraw. They are made by Pietta and function very well straight out of the box. They have some features that the Uberti's don't such a replaceable bushing around the firing pin frame and a separate press in bearing on the cylinder, instead of being a one piece cylinder like the Uberti. While the Uberti's are good revolvers I chose the Frontier's, the finish, etc just seemed a little nicer.

[Changeling]

The cat is officially out of the bag!!!

No, the Cat get's upset like everyone else! He handles things very nicely in this forum, THINK about it!

[Dale53]

I bought a new Cimarron in .44 Special a number of years ago. It is extremely accurate (under 1" at 25 yards) has a terrific, light, no creep trigger, but has 1st Generation Colt type sights. That is to say, a skinny front sight and a tiny "v" rear sight. It also shoots low, left at 25 yards. I can correct both problems but haven't yet done this (turn in the barrel a "bit" and file the front sight). It IS a beauty and it deserves to be properly regulated. I NEED to do that:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0315.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0315.jpg.html)

If you want a Colt look alike with original Colt feel made of modern materials for a fraction of the Colt price, you might want to consider a Cimarron.

FWIW
Dale53

[Changeling]

I bought a new Cimarron in .44 Special a number of years ago. It is extremely accurate (under 1" at 25 yards) has a terrific, light, no creep trigger, but has 1st Generation Colt type sights. That is to say, a skinny front sight and a tiny "v" rear sight. It also shoots low, left at 25 yards. I can correct both problems but haven't yet done this (turn in the barrel a "bit" and file the front sight). It IS a beauty and it deserves to be properly regulated. I NEED to do that:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0315.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0315.jpg.html)

If you want a Colt look alike with original Colt feel made of modern materials for a fraction of the Colt price, you might want to consider a Cimarron.

FWIW
Dale53

How do you move the barrel to line up correctly with the sights, does one need a barrel wrench and frame block?

Will this break any kind of barrel/frame "union" like locktite? Will this void any gurantee from factory ?

If one wants to change loads/boolit weight "back and forth" how is that done relative to sighting sinse it is not a removeable/changeable front sight?

What is there gurantee in the USA where I live:wink:?

[robertbank]

Bill it is called the Callahan 4.75 & 6.5" barrels and Callahan Target New Model 8/5" & 7.5" barrels , both in 44 mag.

Their website only lists a 44 Russian in their top break model. No 44 Spl listed.

Take Care

Bob

[felix]

Dale, please don't mess with the sighting. Mucho' fun can be had finding the load to shoot at one POA. It took me 6 months to find one for the Hammerlii lookalike, but one I did. Bottom of Bull full-bead sighting, 50 foot NRA slow fire, 6.0-700X-185 Lyman ACP shoots in the dead center. All 6 cylinders, a 10 spot each. ... felix

[robertbank]

Dale, please don't mess with the sighting. Mucho' fun can be had finding the load to shoot at one POA. It took me 6 months for find one for the Hammerlii lookalike, but one I did. Bottom of Bull full-bead sighting, 50 foot NRA slow fire, 6.0-700X-185 Lyman ACP shoots in the dead center. All 6 cylinders, a 10 spot each. ... felix

Felix tough to find a load that will shoot right more than his loads do now. Most of the clones come with a tall front sight so the owner can adjust by filing down the FS to match his loads.

I have a Beretta Stamped that shoots POA with a 250 - 260 gr bullet but off to the left an inch at 15 yards off a pistol rest. I am going to have either the barrel turned slightly by a 'smith or have the rear sight filed on one side slightly.

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

I have a Cimmaron Lightning that would not shoot to point of aim. It was about 14 inches left at 20 yards. It went back and forth from their Texas outlet several time and once in person to the owner. They did not know what they were doing and bent the front sight so far over it cracked the bluing and the solder joint where it meets the barrel.
Long story short a Alq gunsmith found it was a bad crown. Now it shoots to point of aim.

Hey Bill I will try polishing the crown. Tks.

Bob

[square butte]

I kinda like the old style Colt V notch. Somehow it seems to work better for my older eyes. Do the newer Cimarron - Uberti still have the V notch?

[felix]

Bob, change the acceleration curve to adjust the barrel torque curve (hand held pistol, don'cha'know) which moves the muzzle. Do this with primer/powder/boolit changes. Must have various powders, primers, and some different boolit WEIGHTS to find the REQUIRED combination to do the job. I know, finding the components is a nightmare these days. Use all the different ACP powders you can find, for example. ... felix

Talking about natural timing changes here, not those for which a gun needs to be modified. Say one or two inches out of center at 50 feet can be tuned in. That 14 inches of error at any range indicates a severe gun problem. ... felix

[robertbank]

Engineers, the only reason I took Physics at all was because she was 4' 10" and very well endowed as I recall. She now is all of that vertically and horizontally. I think she took up mothering after school. I left physics with a "C".

:>)

Bob

[Dale53]

Felix;
I have had excellent results in the past regulating fixed sighted revolvers. This particular Cimarron is really not too far off. I want to work with a particular field load (the Skeeter load) and a slight movement of the barrel (tightening it just a bit) and a bit filed off the front sight will do it without damaging the gun. You do need to protect the frame while doing it - you can't just "willy-nilly" it, of course. Frankly, the sights are so primitive compared to, say, my Ruger Bisley Vaquero (which has really excellent fixed sights), that I might just decide to let it go. It's not like I don't have a couple of Flattop Ruger .44 Specials with adjustable sights. It IS a pretty thing, tho', and it can easily be rated a "Perfect Packing Pistol"...

FWIW
Dale53

[35 Whelen]

Dale, please don't mess with the sighting. Mucho' fun can be had finding the load to shoot at one POA. It took me 6 months to find one for the Hammerlii lookalike, but one I did. Bottom of Bull full-bead sighting, 50 foot NRA slow fire, 6.0-700X-185 Lyman ACP shoots in the dead center. All 6 cylinders, a 10 spot each. ... felix

I love load development, chronographing, etc., but my modus operandi for my fixed sight handguns is to regulate the sights with the load I'll use most, usually a hunting load, then hold here or there when shooting other loads.

[35 Whelen]

Dale, I have a .44 Special identical to yours (except all the finish is gone) and the best thing I did was to take it to a machine shop and have a machinist mill the rear sight groove out to 1/8"; just about the same as that of a Vaquero. After doing that and then regulating (filing) the front sight, which got me down to the thicker portion of the front blade, the sighting system was infinitely better.
I recently bought a couple of new front sights from Brownell's, which are uniformly thick, and installed them on both my Uberti .44 Specials then regulated them to my hunting loads. Now the sights are practically identical to those on my Vaquero.

35W