Thoughts on DIY bullet casting machines?

[taiden]

Hi all,

This is definitely jumping right into the deep end, but here we go.

I'm an engineering student, and I'd like to build a DIY bullet casting machine.

I have access to all kinds of tools; welding, machining (mill / lathe / router ), controls, etc.

Have there been many threads on DIY bullet casting machines on here? I've seen a few in passing, but I haven't ran into any threads that go into length about methods employed.

200-400 bullets an hour would be the goal.

My main requirement is for it to take readily available and low cost molds, perhaps Lee 2 cavity molds, and be easily adjustable to make for quick changes.

My main concern is where I am going to locate components, all the logistics and electrical controls should come together nicely.

120v element vs propane?
Electric solenoid & motors vs pneumatic cylinders?

Any thoughts on this?

[khmer6]

Look into master caster designs?

[ReloaderFred]

The information you seek is within the casting subforum: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?11-Casting-Equipment

Hope this helps.

Fred

[jmorris]

I rigged up this contraption that still casts my bullets. Uses a 240v oven element had to replace it a few months ago, they cost $16 now. Casts around 482, 230 grain bullets an hour with the gear motor/flow I am using in the video below. I use magma molds.

Click the photo to play the video of it running.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/th_VID_20131006_150354_097_zps0e25f739.jpg (http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/VID_20131006_150354_097_zps0e25f739.mp4)

If you have the equipment and "junk" sitting around it is not too hard to build.

This is likely the thread with the most information about it that I have posted.
Post #5 and #11 here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=158478&highlight=Master+caster
I don't know if you have to join or not to see the photos but they might help you out.

It base machine is as close of a copy of a master caster that I could build (except it will hold over 60lbs of lead) without casting or having ever seen one in person.

While I was in the building mood I also made an automatic sizer to go along with it.

Also a video.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/th_VID_20131008_114903_441_zpsdb21a12f.jpg (http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/VID_20131008_114903_441_zpsdb21a12f.mp4)

[dbosman]

My first thought is - Go for it!
Your project choice is practical, useable, and potentially fills a need for a specific group that you can address fairly easily.
An automated solution that uses inexpensive molds will appeal to the serious amateur shooter or a small club.

Other thoughts.
I'd guess your casts per time period will depend on the molds you opt for.
I'm sure lots of folks here will be willing to offer their guesstimates for how long you need to have the mold cool before dropping the castings. Two cavity molds will help keep things consistent, but consider that a properly functioning X cavity mold might be more valuable than speed with a two cavity mold.

If you go with Lee molds - I'd expect Lee Precision would be interested in talking to you. If they can. A non disclosure agreement on both sides might be needed to protect you and Lee Precision.

I've long wondered why no one has developed a machine using round (partially spherical) plates that come together long enough to take the lead and then pull apart as they rotate. (if you can imagine two spherical thrust bearings at 90° to each other.)

Either pneumatics or solenoids will work. Which to you need more experience with? A blast of air might help bullets drop more consistently. Pneumatics will have to use metal or very high temp "plastics". Your an engineering student so you should have access to materials catalogs and suppliers.

Consider limiting the mold size to make your machine simpler. A 55 grain .22 to a 500 grain .50 would make for interesting programing. Sticking to the most common sizes would limit what you'd have to control for. All that would change would be the size of the sprue. For instance 125 grain X to 250 grain Y could probably be handled by 20 grain increments.
At the right price a machine that is only made for .22 would be salable to the AR folks. Lee doesn't list a double cavity for .22 though.
Lee only lists five molds for the .380, .38 Super & 9mm. Three more for 10mm and ten for .38. That is nominally 102 grains to 158.

Please keep us informed, if you pursue this project.

[jmorris]

If you are shorter on time you can buy a master caster, a little over $1000 new with molds, and automate it. Search the topic with Hatch as the user name.

I just had more time than money back then and always like to make something out of stuff I have collected.

[taiden]

jmorris, that seems like a great option for molds, machine ready. Are there others?

[jmorris]

Any other machines? Yes, http://www.ballisti-cast.com/ and other magma machines.

I had never cast bullets before though and didn't want to invest even more time and money before I knew that it would work for me. The single mold I purchased from magma was the most expensive single part I had to buy for my machine ($60 back then). For speed more molds are the ticket but makes it more complex to build and more expensive.

Oh, if you were talking about the molds themselves magma will mod RCBS molds to work with their machine but if you can build the machine you could likely mod any mold to work with the oraface plate you machine. Along with the sprue cutter.

[btroj]

My daughter is an engineering student also. She claims to have a bullet casting machine, sadly she calls it Dad......

I wish you luck and am impressed with your desire to do something that aids in a hobby and may well teach you something.

[dbosman]

Daughters can automate a lot of things that way.


My daughter is an engineering student also. She claims to have a bullet casting machine, sadly she calls it Dad......

[btroj]

I know. Oh how I know.

Luckily my ATM days seem to have ended.

[jmorris]

I must be in for trouble, I thought I had only made the most labor intensive ammo boxing machine in existence.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20130719_163215_134_zpsb41f36d0.jpg

[dbosman]

Oh, please enjoy that time together.
Drivers ed starts in ~14 years.

[taiden]

Alright, I was thinking about this more last night, and I believe these are my design guidelines / constrains.


PID logic applied to pot temperature and mold temperature, mold temperature controlled via casting frequency.
Possible retrofit for Lee Pro 4?
Auto pause for pot temp (ie, if you add an ingot, it will wait for the pot to get up to temp)
Magma molds (seems to be best bang for the buck molds that will work well with machine casting)
Solenoid controlled chute divider to automatically discard cast bullets that aren't at correct mold temperature
Simple dials on front to adjust each variable, no digital readouts to start with (perhaps full casting log)
And if I decide to use pneumatics, then a blast of air to help release cast bullets

Total cost below $350 with off the shelf parts, excluding molds (I like to challenge myself)
200 bullets / hr, highly focused on casting quality

Is there any problem with sizing directly after casting? Say within 5-10 seconds?

[jmorris]

I used a PID controller that a friend gave me to control the temp. It is pretty big relative to the ones they use these days but the price was right. I picked up a tiny one from a member here a few years ago for really cheap too, he was selling them to others to convert them.

I also just built two timers for control, one for pour and the other for a pause at the end of the cycle to allow for the molds to cool down, the components to build them 555 IC, caps, resistors are all cheap and you will learn even more building them from nothing. A PLC would be a good idea too but not in your budget. However, you might try contacting a few manufactures. I was amazed at how much free stuff was sent to me from companies when I was in college. Makes good sense, when you go to work you would be more likely to integrate a product that you are familiar with.

If you have to pay retail price for every part you use you are never going to make one for $350. I don't have that in the one I built but there are only 4 parts on my machine that were bought new.

The pour dial is a 10 turn pot for fine adjustment the cool is not. The latching push button starts and stops the gear motor.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/caster1.jpg

[taiden]

Very nice jmorris, I'm planning on using an Arduino for all logic. I can have multiple PID logic processes running on it, and it can control all timing as well as do datalogging if necessary. Total cost for the controller is $30 and then you need the necessary pots, switches, relays, thermocouples, solenoids, etc etc.

[taiden]

What was your design process to come up with your method for opening the mold?

[jmorris]

Like I said in #4, my design process was to copy something that already worked and automate it.

This helped me the most.
http://www.magmaengineering.com/images/drawings/mcbase.gif

[jmorris]

Total cost for the controller is $30 and then you need the necessary pots, switches, relays, thermocouples, solenoids, etc etc.

That is what I was saying above, after the mold and the controller you have picked out, that only leaves you with $230 for all the rest of the machine. With new parts, that is going to be difficult.

[taiden]

Ah! Yes. The $350 budget would not include the molds. Since I figure any user of this machine would be purchasing and trading regularly. :)

Magma was so kind as to provide me with the engineered drawings of his mold blocks. I'll be starting with this and then moving forward slowly but surely!

Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to use an electric motor for all motion, or pneumatic cylinders... If there's a good way to separate the sprue from the bullets without tilting the mold, I think I'd rather use pneumatic cylinders.

[jmorris]

If you do come up with a way to make a functioning casting machine for $350, that will be how you make your first millon.

Electric motors with enough torque are not cheap but generally cost less than pneumatic cylinders, solenoids/valves and air compressor.

[taiden]

Well that's definitely the thing... if you build it with pneumatic cylinders, you have to assume the user has an air compressor.

I doubt I'd actually sell the things, maybe plans, but that's probably the extent of any monitization.

[andrew375]

I've long wondered why no one has developed a machine using round (partially spherical) plates that come together long enough to take the lead and then pull apart as they rotate. (if you can imagine two spherical thrust bearings at 90° to each other.)



They have. it is how Winchester, for one, manufactured their buckshot before they went over to swaging.

[dbosman]

$10 or so for pin compatible versions.
The "real" Arduino is more readily available though, for proof of concept.
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/9-arduino-compatible-starter-kit-anyone-can-learn-electronics


Very nice jmorris, I'm planning on using an Arduino
Total cost for the controller is $30.

[dbosman]

Build a follower for the sprue plate, to kick the sprue to the drop area, or a wiper using high temp flexible plastic.



If there's a good way to separate the sprue from the bullets without tilting the mold, I think I'd rather use pneumatic cylinders.

[jmorris]

$10 or so for pin compatible versions.
The "real" Arduino is more readily available though, for proof of concept.
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/9-arduino-compatible-starter-kit-anyone-can-learn-electronics

I don't see anything available at that link.

[deltaenterprizes]

Check out the Ballisticast 2 mold hand casting machine and automate it. Redesign the mold carriers, that is the weak link in the design.

[taiden]

I'm trying to determine how I'm going to get parts for the furnace. The Lee 4 20 seems like a good enough setup for the price, but there will be a lot of component waste if I gut it for PID control.

Is there anyone who makes furnaces who sells the assemblies separately?

[jmorris]

The one I made is just a section of 3/8" wallets pipe with a plate welded on the bottom then wrapped a oven element around it.

Takes a lot longer to build than it would take to gut a Lee pot but mine will also hold more than 60 lbs of lead.

[Wayne Smith]

A 20 lb pot is a no go for a casting machine. It puts a limit on how many boolits can be cast at one time, and the refresh rate is not good. For a true casting machine I would want at least a 40lb pot that would allow constant feed of new stock. After all, the purpose is a lot of boolits at once, not stop and start.