How to lube 58 Cal Minnie balls

[Guzda]

I just bought a Lyman mould in 58 cal Minie ball old style. The number on it is 575213OS. I would like to know if anyone has an idea how I can put some bullet lube in the grooves of these bullets? I have an old Lyman lubra sizer that I use to size my smaller sized bullets that I cast, but can't seem to find anything for this large 58 (.575) diameter bullet. Anyone have any ideas?
Guzda

[45 2.1]

Lyman used to make a lube die for their lubrisizer, lube only NO sizing. Those are hard to find. On this site, Buckshot can make you a lube die or you can dip lube the minis or you can pan lube them. Buckshot can make you a Kakecutter to remove the minis from the pan lube pan and a sizer that works in a RCBS press with the bushing removed. PM him for details.

[dondiego]

A lot of guys just gob the lube on right before they shoot. You can also pan lube and use a homemade cutter. Try lube in the hollow base and see if it improves accuracy.

[pworley1]

I have an old snider that seems to like that bullet very well. I have tried several ways to lube them. For me these are the best two. I took an old golf shaft and cut it at the point where the id of the shaft was just larger than the od of the bullet cleaned up the cut and used it to cut the bullets form a pan of lube that the bullets standing in. Before that I just rubbed it in with my thumb. I hope this helps.

[scattershot]

Just wipe the lube on with your fingers.

[Guzda]

Thanks for the ideas Guys! I will have to give them a try when the weather warms up, (if it ever does!)
Guzda

[curator]

If I am going to shoot my Springfield 1861 ArmiSport musket multiple shots and right away, I use the minnie bullet as a scoop and fill the hollow base. I don't bother to lube the grooves as they are essentially designed to be "scrapers" not lube carriers. They are also way too shallow and don't hold enough lube. My lube is a 50/50 mix of bee's wax and grocery store lard. It stays hard (sort of) even in Florida summer and is still reasonably soft in temps around 32 degrees. The large amount of lube carried in the base assists in the bullet base expanding and taking the rifling, and keeps the black powder fouling soft for repeat shots without having to wipe between shots. I have loaded and fired more than 50 shots using 60 grains of FFg Goex without wiping and accuracy was still adequate and loading easy at the end. Lubing only the grooves (and none in the hollow base) after five or six shots, I would have to wipe the bore with two or three damp patches and a dry patch before I could seat another minnie ball due to fouling build-up. If the barrel is hot and the gun is going to be loaded for a long time (as in hunting or a delayed relay at target shooting) I would not put lube in the base as it may melt and foul the powder charge.

[btroj]

I just dipped em in beeswax and crisco. The muzzle gets rid of extra.

[Faret]

I just dipped em in beeswax and crisco. The muzzle gets rid of extra.


I have found the same to be true and works well at that!

[JimP.]

i have 58 cal muzzle loader and i use Lee Liquid Alox tumble lube on the bullets...works good. JimP.

[fouronesix]

Guzda,

To start with, don't make it any more complicated than necessary. Plenty of time to experiment and fine tune to your preference. Just smear some Crisco on with your fingers, seat firmly on powder and fire.

Oh.. and use real blackpowder :)

[Djones]

I shoot Minnie's and REALs out of my ML with 50/50 beeswax and crisco. I slime the boolits up by hand and throw them in a plastic container or a zip lock bag.

[Wolfer]

I shoot 50 cal minis. If I fill the base with crisco I can shoot all day. When I load it for hunting I just smear a little around the sides and leave the base empty.

I don't know if crisco will contaminate powder but I don't like to take a chance. Woody

[Leadmelter]

Back in the day, I used Cisco in my 58 cal H&R Huntsman. What a mess in the summer months. That was way before we had better lube and equipment.
Leadmelter
MI

[GabbyM]

I run a 45 caliber side lock. For decades I've had an assortment of tubes and plastic cartridges where you place a bullet and powder charge for hunting. To make up Maxi balls or Minnie. I do have a 265gr Minnie in 45 caliber. I sit down at home and lube up a batch and load them in hoses or hard plastic pipes. Long stick on the ball starter can be used to push them out into your hand to load.

trick I've seen in many magazines and books. But never tried. Make up a load block from wood. Find a nice piece of wood as thick as the bullet is long. drill proper sized holes in the block. Grease bullets up and push into holes. To load place a bullet over the barrel then push it out of the block with your short starter. Best put powder in first though. Paper cartridges can be made and are way cool.

For lube I've used Armor salt free white lard and bees wax plus just a dab of lanolin.

[Rebel Dave]

Sizers/lubers for the Lyman, and RCBS luerisizers in sizes for minnies are available from S&S Fierarms in NYC, and Lodgewood MFG in Whitewater Wisconsin. They both have lots of sizes available.
You should find out the bore size on your musket, and size the Minnie .001-.002 under bore size. Use only "PURE" lead as, alloys will not allow the skirt to expand properly on ignition, causing flyers.
As stated you can just dip the minnies in melted lube, and load them., but they will work better as sized as above first.

Rebel Dave

[GabbyM]

Sizers/lubers for the Lyman, and RCBS luerisizers in sizes for minnies are available from S&S Fierarms in NYC, and Lodgewood MFG in Whitewater Wisconsin. They both have lots of sizes available.
You should find out the bore size on your musket, and size the Minnie .001-.002 under bore size. Use only "PURE" lead as, alloys will not allow the skirt to expand properly on ignition, causing flyers.
As stated you can just dip the minnies in melted lube, and load them., but they will work better as sized as above first.

Rebel Dave

Well I've a sizer I leave set up on SPG lube for cartridge BP. since I use a 45 MZ I have dies that would work a bit loose. Jus don't bother with it. After all you still need to handle the bullet to push them into a load cartridge or storage item. Then wash your hands. So what am I gaining by using my lube sizer machine.

[jonk]

S and S firearms makes sizer dies for the lube sizer. Also push throughs. You should measure your bore and size 1-2/1000ths under bore (not groove) diameter.

[bedbugbilly]

I have shot thousands of .58 minie balls in rifled muskets for NSSA shoots. All we ever did was take your index finger, dip some Crisco out and fill the base. You don't need anything else. We then loaded them base up in loading tubes (you can get tubes from S & S, Winchester Sutler and others). The purpose for lube in BP is to keep the fouling soft. To get the best accuracy out of your rifled musket, the ball should be sized to the bore. As far as lube goes, the simpler the better. Crisco in the base has been the commonly used lube for years by most NSSA shooters for one reason . . . it works. A pound container will last a long time.

[BPShooter]

Like bedbugbilly said, fill the base with lube and shoot. After 30 years of shooting N-SSA, I can't think of a better way.

[jonk]

Very interesting what bedbugbilly and BP shooter say. I'm in the N-SSA as well and have never seen anyone shooting minies with naked sides and just the base filled. I have tried it myself, with less than stellar results.

Only issue with crisco is, on 100 degree days (well, even 80 degree days in the sun) it turns to a runny mess.

If you go the 'fill the base' routine, you may consider stiffening the crisco with some beeswax for warm weather shooting. I run 45/45/10 (with the 10 being olive oil) for the lube sizer or dip and push throughs, and 80/20 crisco to beeswax for the bases. Still very soft, just hard enough that it doesn't melt.

That said, do try the unlubed, bottom filled minies. What works for you; each gun is different.

[glenhunter]

I've used Crisco firing in the N-SSA and it worked well but really like Wonder Lube and Bore Butter also.
My two cents.
gh

[coolhand244]

If I am going to shoot my Springfield 1861 ArmiSport musket multiple shots and right away, I use the minnie bullet as a scoop and fill the hollow base. I don't bother to lube the grooves as they are essentially designed to be "scrapers" not lube carriers. They are also way too shallow and don't hold enough lube. My lube is a 50/50 mix of bee's wax and grocery store lard. It stays hard (sort of) even in Florida summer and is still reasonably soft in temps around 32 degrees. The large amount of lube carried in the base assists in the bullet base expanding and taking the rifling, and keeps the black powder fouling soft for repeat shots without having to wipe between shots. I have loaded and fired more than 50 shots using 60 grains of FFg Goex without wiping and accuracy was still adequate and loading easy at the end. Lubing only the grooves (and none in the hollow base) after five or six shots, I would have to wipe the bore with two or three damp patches and a dry patch before I could seat another minnie ball due to fouling build-up. If the barrel is hot and the gun is going to be loaded for a long time (as in hunting or a delayed relay at target shooting) I would not put lube in the base as it may melt and foul the powder charge.

Curator;
I just purchased an original 1863 Springfield and am very eager to shoot it. She's a very solid weapon and structurally sound. I have never shot a weapon such as this (other than a black powder pistol) before. Will the TYPE and AMOUNT of powder be the same as your Armisport? Also the LUBE recipe, will that work as well?

Cool Hand

[LabGuy]

It should work fine in your 1863. I have had the pleasure of shooting with Curator for about 3 years. I can only hope to know as much has he has forgoten.

[Yodogsandman]

Pat Marlin also makes a pocket ML boolit luber...

http://www.patmarlins.com/introducing-the-new-pocketluberbp-bullet-luber/

[LabGuy]

In the 1970s I used to dip my minnie in 50% beeswax 50% Crisco. I could never shoot more than 5 before cleaning. It wasn't a big problem because due to limited income I wasn't shooting that much at a time. I rarely shot more than 10 per outing.

[Leadmelter]

Good old Cisco on a hot summer day melting in your hand. Good times.
Leadmelter
MI

[finboy]

Very interesting what bedbugbilly and BP shooter say. I'm in the N-SSA as well and have never seen anyone shooting minies with naked sides and just the base filled. I have tried it myself, with less than stellar results.



I've never seen anyone put lube in the base of a Minie ball, either, even at NSSA events. However, having seen more than a few buckets of Civil War bullets out of the ground in central VA it's surprising to me how many campsite finds still had traces of lube in the grooves - never in the hollow.

For our Zouaves growing up we always used a mini cast iron pan and stood the bullets up in it, and poured beeswax and Crisco into the pan and let it rise. Then we would take them out while still a little warm and let them cool. The lube never ended up on the inside of the dome. I don't know where Dad learned that, but there were a couple of good gunsmiths on the CSS Alabama crew at the time so maybe one of them passed it along.

I always thought there was a third ingredient in there but probably not olive oil, but that sounds like a good idea. I came here looking for that third ingredient for a REAL lube. Interesting stuff, thanks.

[rond]

I use Pioneer Powder and Shocky's Gold substitutes and no lube. The stuff leaves a film that lubes the barrel.

[44man]

My friend shot N-SSA in VA. I went with him to watch. I never seen such a sad bunch of shooters, EVER.
I went to shoots with friends with Minie' ball guns and a 4x4 sheet of plywood was safe at 50 meters.
I worked on their guns and found a Minie' needed to have a tight fit. I lapped the molds for a tight thumb push and we were shooting 200 meter gongs with the things. We learned about skirt thickness and charges.
But just lube in the hollow was all we used. Kept fouling soft and the next ball pushed the rifling clear. It is amazing how accurate they can be but it was FIT.

[quail4jake]

I saw a post in this thread that cited the grooves as "fouling scrapers". Although that is commonly thought to be true (with good reason due to the shape of the grooves) the grooves are shaped that way because it worked better for swaging and was thought to allow the lube to flow better. I've read notes from Erskine Allin and others who experimented with this at Springfield in the 1850s to develop the "expanding ball" that would eventually become the cal. .58 and cal. .69 that we know today and the specs are explained in the 1855 ordinance manual.
I use a star lube sizer to apply "ordinance lube" the lube specified in the 1855 manual which is 8 parts beeswax to 1 part beef tallow (I use bore butter instead of tallow). The Magma folks made me the .579 die and I had to make my own .685 die, both work well and this way to lube maintains a good bore condition and allows rapid repeat fire. It may not be the best way to lube for NSSA type shooting, it just happened to work well for millions of rounds fired in the American Civil War. In absence of using a lube sizer I have pan lubed and used a .580 cutter that I made to cut the balls free of the lube cake, that works great and leaves an elegant appearing ball. SPG may be a better lube than ordinance lube, I haven't tried it yet.
Take a look under "muzzleloading" in Cast Boolits, thread titled "lubing musket balls and the United States of America" for a little comic relief. Good luck, hope it all works well for you! Kindest regards.

[Green Frog]

I pan lube my Hogdon-stlye Minies for my Zouve musket by the pan lube method espoused by friend Dale53 on these boards and using modified Emmert's Lube (lanolin added.) It will stay good even when exposed on the bullet bases for about 6 months or longer, but then dries out and is less useful keeping fouling soft. As to sizing, I've started using (after pan lubing) a special 7/8 X 14 press mounted die by Tom Crone (purchased at N-SSA Nationals) to make my bullets consistent at .576". I don't normally find it necessary to fill the cavity in the rear of the bullet... the extra lube seems unnecessary. This works fine for me, YMMV.

Froggie

[Dale53]

Here is the link to the pan lubing method my good friend, the Green Frog, mentions:

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/the-library/bullet-lubes/313-pan-lubing-piece-of-cake

When you click on the link and the first page comes up, right click on the page and copy it to your computer as a pdf. Then, you'll be able to read the whole article.

Original Emmert's lube formula is 50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Canola oil as shown in the article. I have since modified it for longer life. The modified formula uses 50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Anhydrous Lanolin. That is what I use now. It is a terrific Black Powder Cartridge Lube, an excellent Schuetzen lube with smokeless, as well as a good muzzle loader lube. I have used it with excellent results in Black Powder .45 Colt revolver loads, too. Good stuff. It pan lubes with minimal problems, too, as the article illustrates.

FWIW
Dale53

[heelerau]

I just bought a Lyman mould in 58 cal Minie ball old style. The number on it is 575213OS. I would like to know if anyone has an idea how I can put some bullet lube in the grooves of these bullets? I have an old Lyman lubra sizer that I use to size my smaller sized bullets that I cast, but can't seem to find anything for this large 58 (.575) diameter bullet. Anyone have any ideas?
Guzda
Mate, I use 5 parts beeswax to 1 part by volume unsalted lard. I dip the minnies by holding the nose with some pliers , just in out the hot lube, then push base first through a home made lube size die, this merely wipes off the excess lube. I live in a fairly hot climate and my lube mix was one of the standard British Army reciepes of the time and has always worked well for me. I can get a 13 shot match with my Parker Hale 2 bander before I need to wipe the bore for the next event. Bullet fit is crucial, nice slip fit so you get minimal blowby and thus less fouling. If you make up the proper Enfield Paper Cartridge with the Pritchett bullet you can put at least 30 or 40 rounds through without having to wipe.

Cheers and good luck

heelerau PS you don't have lube size, just reduces the mess when loading.

[mehavey]

When I was running a couple of hundred rounds a week, the hot (liquid beeswax/crisco)
method was very fast production that left a nice layer of lube on the rings that (mostly) hardened
to a smooth surface

Simple Dip-Lube in melted 3:1 Crisco/Beeswax and set aside.

1. Measure powder out w/ Lee Dipper and place in plastic valve cap
2. Place Minnie ball upside down in valve cap forming cartridge
3. Pick up and dip the bullet/cartridge assembly in lube

http://i40.tinypic.com/2vcfg21.jpg

Done . . . .

On the firing line these could be thrown loose into an over-the shoulder musket cartridge box, ...



...and hand-retrieved one after another with great ease. (Hold bullet in teeth; Pull off
plastic tube w/ powder; Pour powder into barrel; Place bullet in muzzle; ...Ram home.
The exposed lube did get "mussed" after a while, but it always did it's job perfectly.

[dondiego]

Where do you acquire the plastic valve caps?

[RogerDat]

Are they something like these caps?
http://www.essentracomponents.com/en-us/caps-plugs/push-fit-caps/easy-removal-caps/flanged-caps/flanged-caps-us-p050415

Are they available at hardware or plumbing or .... stores?

[mehavey]

flanged valve covers
http://www.essentracomponents.com/en-us/caps-plugs/push-fit-caps/easy-removal-caps/flanged-caps/flanged-caps-us-p050415/el916a
https://s9.postimg.org/o54hz2cpb/musketflangecap.jpg
I haven't had to buy any more for yeeeeeeaaarrs.
But these (9/16" ID/1.4" long) sure look to be the match.

Also... looks like you can order any quantity: 1 - to - thosands

[dondiego]

Thanks for that info!

[PhantomRider64]

I read somewhere to coat the outside with Crisco then wrap in wax paper. I imagine you could put some in the base as well.

When I get some cast out of my REAL mold I am going to try it in my 1863 Remington.

[trapper9260]

For my 58cal musket with minnes I just put the Crisco on it