Bullet sizing problem

[MSgtUSMC]

I've been sizing & lubing three different bullets for .30-30, two from Lyman molds and one from an RCBS mold. I gas check them by placing the gas check in the top of the die and also by using a Lyman gas check seater. Every bullet shows burnishing on one side and appears to be untouched on the other. Some have the crimp ring so deformed that there is no longer a ring into which the case mouth can be crimped. The bullets as cast are .309 and this happens in a .309 die as well as a .310 die. I have changed from a Lyman lube/sizer to an RCBS lube/sizer and back again to the Lyman. Any help out there?

[sturf]

sounds like either the ram or your top punch is out of line or maybe the wrong top punch.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Msgt, sturf might be right. Another thing to check is your boolit sizing die. Is there any chance you could have one of the old Lyman dies with the step instead of a tapered lead-in? Those old dies go back to 1968 or so and have ruined a lot of boolits. If you push the bottom punch away so that you can see the inside of the die, you will see a definite step, if any.

[Bullshop]

Even if you do have an alignment issue you should be able to counter the effect buy presizing in a nose first push through die, then lubing with your press.
With very minor alteration you can use your press to presize nose first, if you dont have any loading press mounted dies. If you do have one of the anchant dies that does not have a tapered lead into the die then buy all means get a new one.
BIC/BS

[fishhawk]

had the same problem with mine finaly had to hold the top punch in the ram with a dab of lube seams it was just pushing it off center just enough with the set screw that it did the same thing you describe

[testhop]

I've been sizing & lubing three different bullets for .30-30, two from Lyman molds and one from an RCBS mold. I gas check them by placing the gas check in the top of the die and also by using a Lyman gas check seater. Every bullet shows burnishing on one side and appears to be untouched on the other. Some have the crimp ring so deformed that there is no longer a ring into which the case mouth can be crimped. The bullets as cast are .309 and this happens in a .309 die as well as a .310 die. I have changed from a Lyman lube/sizer to an RCBS lube/sizer and back again to the Lyman. Any help out there?

you say you are useng lyman and rcbs moulds so i would think that the moulds are ok and you are useing 2 differnt sizers 2 differnt sizeing dies s0 it probley not any of those i has to be something that you do or use on ll differnt set ups
the one thing i would look at is the way you aline the boolits up in the
sizeryou may be putting it in cocked
i hd ths happento me years back

tom

[montana_charlie]

may be putting it in cocked
The H&I die set includes the ejector pin. If the top of the pin has lube on it, that may cock the bullet before you push it down.

Keep it wiped clean.
CM

[Larry Gibson]

MsgtUSMC

"Some have the crimp ring so deformed that there is no longer a ring into which the case mouth can be crimped."

You have a very soft alloy there and are actully swaging them down. Obviously the swaging is not good nor consistant. It is happening when you push the sizer hand down to seat the GC or when the bullet bottoms out in the H die (sizer). I was just sizing some pretty soft bullets last night that were doing the same thing.

Use the GC seater and just seat the bullet into the GC with a very light "feel" as it bottoms. Do not press down hard. Then run the bullets through a Lee .309 sizer nose first. This will crimp the GC and size it without doing anything to the bullet. Then run the bullets into your .310 H die to lube them and again use a light hand on the handle and stop pushing down when you feel the bullet bottom out. A visual check of the bullet in the H die when the handle is lifted but the bullet is not pushed up will tell you if the bullet is concentric or bent. A concentric and unbent bullet will still be centered in the hole, it's easy to see one that is bent. A soft bullet with a bore riding nose is real easy to bend. So are bullets with a scraper groove in front of the driving band.

The other alternative is to go to a harder alloy.

Larry Gibson

[Bret4207]

Welcome to the clan Top. Cpl BW Martin, USMC 79-82

[MSgtUSMC]

I'll respond to some of the suggestions (in no particular order received).
I'm using the top punches specified by the mold makers.
I'm using a Lyman .309 sizing die received from Midway USA last week.
Doubt if it is set screw pushing top punch off center because it happens with both the Lyman and RCBS sizer/luber.
I clean the top of the ejector pin of the sizing die when I see any lubricant.
Don't think my alloy is too soft. Am using 1/2 wheel weight 1/2 linotype.
Thanks for the responses.
I'm going to order a Lee .309 sizer and then lube with the Lyman sizer/luber.

[Bent Ramrod]

MsgtUSMC,

This may be a long shot but I notice sometimes on my Lachmiller luber (in which the die is held by a threaded nut, evenly all around) that I sometimes get that off-side sizing you describe. This often happens when the garage is cold and the lube is sluggish. I have to put extra pressure on it to make it move and it is harder to push the boolit into the die and pull it back out. It seems to me the offside sizing is more prevalent under these conditions. When the lube is warmed up (like in the summer), this problem at least goes into remission; I get an ever larger percentage of smaller and smaller asymmetries in the sized boolits. This happens even with alox-beeswax lube which nominally doesn't need heating, but which is harder to move in the wintertime nonetheless.

You might try warming the lower part of the luber with a hair dryer or heat gun and see if things go easier.

[Larry Gibson]

MsgUSMC

"Don't think my alloy is too soft. Am using 1/2 wheel weight 1/2 linotype."

I was using a 60/40 WW/lino alloy and was bending the bullets. That's not much different from the alloy you are using. The fact that you find "the crimp ring so deformed that there is no longer a ring into which the case mouth can be crimped" says that you are bending and swaging the bullets. Follow through with the Lee sizer and then lubing as you say, you're on the right track.

Larry Gibson

[crowbeaner]

MsgUSMC; I have had bullets actually expand in the nose area when sizing from too much pressure. You have to seat the checks and size gently. Check your mould to be sure the alignment pins aren't off or there is a shard of metal holding the alignment off making your boolits out of round also. If you think 30 cals. are fitful, try .225s! Thank you for your service to our country! CB.

[1Shirt]

Hi Top! Think as someone suggested you might have one of the old Lyman dies that has no taper. If so, the cure is a new tapered one. Suggest you consider getting a Lee push through/nose first to size and gas check. You can then lube w/RCBS or Lyman. Extra step, but works for me. Have always considered the Lyman gas check seater to be useless. If you do get a lee to check, suggest you go with a larger die .310/.311. Don't know if you have slugged your bore, but my two are both .310 and want at least .311 or larger.
Good Luck!
1Shirt! :coffee::coffee:

L/Cpl 57-60 USMC
SMSgt. 61-80 USAF
Semper Fi!