45/70 reduced load powders

[Gdbyrd]

Finding powders for new projects has become very difficult. I ordered a lee C457-500-F for my 45-70. I want a super low(44 special) recoil out of encore pistol; 15" barrel. I plan on casting wheel weights and trying to stay on the soft side. A low velocity of around 800 fps would be great(lower would work, not sure what velocity will still get the job done). It'll be used for pigs at a max distance of 30 yards.

I have the following powders:
W296
IMR4227
Reloader 7
2400

The only powders I can find locally are:
IMR7828
H335
Titewad
IMR SR 4756
LeverEvolution

I don't want it have to do Dacron or patches. Do you have any suggestions for me???

[Doc_Stihl]

2400 will get close.
Unique would work.
What would fit the bill perfectly is trailboss.

[Gdbyrd]

Trailboss is exactly what I want but it hasn't been on shelves for a long time. No unique either.
Am I right with this? 14 grains of 2400 should be around 800 fps? What would the recoil be like at that velocity?

[Gdbyrd]

Found some data for 4227 at 17 grains for around 800 fps as well can anyone confirm?

Also what is recoil like?

Thanks.

[Nobade]

Well, 500gr. at 800 fps is going to be more than a 44spl with 240gr. at 750 fps...

-Nobade

[Gdbyrd]

My "reduced" 44 mag levels are out of a 7" red hawk. The developing round is out of a 15" barreled encore. I'd venture it weighs twice as much?

What can you estimate the recoil to be? I'm shooting a 460 S&W at a little over 2k fps unbreaked so I can handle recoil. I'd just prefer something more comfortable for this application.

[scattershot]

Well, a 45/70 from a pistol is going to kick some, no matter how you slice it. 2400 should work fine for your purposes, and the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook should have loads.

[btroj]

I would use Trailboss. 2400 could work but would likely give higher velocity than desired.

[Ben]

I can't help but ask this question.

If your goal was a reduced recoil load, was there a specific reason why you chose a 500 gr. bullet.

Ben

[btroj]

I can't help but ask this question.

If your goal was a reduced recoil load, was there a specific reason why you chose a 500 gr. bullet.

Ben

Well, there is reduced and there is reduced.

I woulda gone with a nice 300 to 350 gr bullet and REALLY reduced recoil.

Bullet weight increases recoil far more than velocity

[olereb]

I haven't used a 500g boolit but a 350g 45-70 boolit over 15grns Unique is pretty darn weak in my Rossi Rio Grande,i'm sure it would be a bit more out of a handgun though.

[MtGun44]

300 or 405 over 12 gr of Unique.

Bill

[Gdbyrd]

The real reason I wanted the larger bullet was for the pure fun of it honestly. I like large calibers with large projectiles. No one wants to shoot my 460 so this whole 45/70 idea came about as a guest gun. I was hoping to have my cake and eat it too.

The only experience I've had with bullet weight and recoil is with the 460. A 200 grain pill had a much sharper recoil than a 325. I understand the physics of it, but felt recoil was way less.

If I can cut the fps down more and it'd help I will. I just want whatever is necessary for a humane kill with a 30 yard max distance. Powder limitations are my biggest issues.

I did a recoil calculator. If I could get velocity to around 600 fps it'd have the same felt recoil as my 44 mag hunting loads. At 800 the recoil is super mellow compared to the 460(based on this calculator anyway). So this should be a good start.

[Gdbyrd]

I only have access to the powders listed in my first post so unique isn't an option.

[btroj]

At 600 fps you may risk a stuck bullet. You have lots of bearing surface there.

Why you bought a 45-70 contender barrel and a 500 gr bullet mould yet want low recoil is beyond me. That combination screams recoil.

[farmerjim]

I thought (big mistake) that the 500 grain Boolit with trail boss pushing it at around 800fps in my Handi would be easy on my shoulder. I was wrong and have the bruise to prove it. The 500 grain Lee is a great boolit, but not for reduced loads. Go down to their 340 grain. It is still heavy, but should be a lot lighter on the recoil. I have the mold, but have not tried it yet. I have shot some 300 grain J words that were not too bad.

[Ben]

I was hoping to have my cake and eat it too.

A bit difficult to get around physics on this one.

I'm like btroj , this one has RECOIL written all over it in a handgun.

[Shooter6br]

Unique 10 t0 12.5 g with 300 to 405 g bullet

[MtGun44]

Gee, that sounds familiar. :bigsmyl2:

Bill

[RayinNH]

Bill , It's the echo on this thread :grin:.

[btroj]

Echo on this thread?

[RayinNH]

Brad, read posts 12, 18, 19.

[btroj]

I know. I was the second echo.

Echo

Echo

Echo

[MtGun44]

Seems like giving the correct answer in a short reply often gets ignored.

Bill

[white eagle]

what ever your reasoning
do not attempt to use reduces loads with W-296

[Gdbyrd]

I wouldn't reduce 296.

I do not have nor do I have access to unique. Unique is not an option. The only powders I have access are the ones listed in my first post at the beginning of this thread.

I'll give the 2400 and 500 grn pill a try. No way it can be worse than the 460. If it's too much I'll move to a 300 grain area.

Thank you guys for your help.

[bikerbeans]

I am not familiar with Encores and Contenders so don't know your twist rate but you may be getting a little close to the limit of stability with your 500g Lee Boolit @ 800 fps. I know from experience in Handi rifle 45-70 with 1:20 twist, the 535g Postells become unstable at around 900 fps. This calculator might help;

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

BB

[Loudenboomer]

I am not familiar with Encores and Contenders so don't know your twist rate but you may be getting a little close to the limit of stability with your 500g Lee Boolit @ 800 fps. I know from experience in Handi rifle 45-70 with 1:20 twist, the 535g Postells become unstable at around 900 fps. This calculator might help;

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

BB
+1 I was going to suggest the same I've had problems with that boolit key holeing at very slow speeds.

[Gdbyrd]

1:14 on the twist from what I understand.