help with 357 handi loads

[mike_kaleigh]

Took my new 357 handi rifle out to my g-pa's for some shootin. well first load was great it was lee 158 swc tl (ww lead) in a 38 case with 5.4 grains of unique for a velocity of 1150fps. It shoot great, i had 1/2 in groups at 50 yards and it was easy. the second was the same but 5.8 grains of unique for 1287fps. that load sucked, 6in at 50 yards. Before i started any loading i noticed in the 4 manuals i have that load data was all over the place for the max loads. two were 5.4 max, one was 5.5max, and the last was 6.1max. and the cast to j-word powder differences were a lot also. i had my doubt about the 6.1 being in 38 pressure limits but i didn't figure i was going to rupture the case in a handi. i noticed on the hotter loads the the bullets seemed unstable and i was getting every so often the sound of the bullet tumbling in flight. i could not recover any bullets, but was i exceeding the pressure the bullet can take because it is a long jump to the rifling where some 357mag cases may help, or try slower powder to keep pressure down or go to gas check? Guess i just need some direction to get the velocity up so when i shoot farther i do not have so much drop. so what do you recommend? The first one is a keeper but still would like a faster load also.

[mike_kaleigh]

right now the only other powder i have that is not rifle is alliant 410, witch is real close to 2400 so i could develope a load with that, and i will be getting some 357 mag cases soon also

[454PB]

I suspect you've got some leading problems. You need to determine bore diameter and size accordingly.

Unique is a fairly fast burning powder for higher velocity loads, you may want to try a slower burning powder. My favorite for .357 is BlueDot. I have no experience with Alliant 410, but if it is close to 2400 in burn rate, it should work well.

[Groo]

Groo here
Is your handy barrel new/factory?
There is a very long throat in pistol cal rifle barrels from the factory.
Before you worry to much use some jackets [ 158 or 180gr] and check the group.
If good groups then you can play to make cast work the way you want.

[mike_kaleigh]

ok i did have some leading in the throat area and about the first 2 inches of rifling. And yes it is brand new factory with 200 rounds of lead down it. so do you think i exceeded the pressure for my lead? i am going to the range sunday if it does not rain and i am going to take the bore snake and really watch for leading. also i have so mag brass coming from a buddy sunday also. and monday the gunshop that has more powder than all the other places combined for 100 mile will be open, i am thinking h110, but need to see what they have first, a year ago they use to have 95% of all powder available in 1, 4, and 8 lb containers and great prices. the place is weird it started as a high end shotgun place, and over the years turned into a place that sells more powder and primes than anything.

[Goatwhiskers]

If you're getting leading, I have some doubts that a bore snake is gonna help much. I suggest a bore brush with a few wraps of bronze wool--gets the lead right out. Also, if you haven't slugged your bore to determine the correct diameter boolit, you're spinning your wheels on eliminating leading. GW

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

if light loads shoot, and stiffer ones won't, toughen up your alloy, after you check the barrel dimensions

[mike_kaleigh]

ok i went to the range today with 5.4 grain loads, shot about 75 rounds, got home and had some light leading at the lead in. and i cleaned out the barrel and sluged it. it is .3565 and i measured some of my bullet and they were .358, so the bore to bullet fit seems good to me. one thing intresting the slug going in, i had to beat in to take the rifling for 2 inches then about 8 inches in the barrel loosened up and i could push the slug threw like i had a medium tight patch to the end of the barrel. the rest of the barrel being a little looser did seem like it would be a problem because that is not where i was get leading. i got some mag brass today but where to go now. also the leading was not bad, break free bore foam sitting for 5 min then 10 brush strokes and i was done. also some magnum jhp shot great 1/2 group at 50.

my first thought is try some light load with fast powder in mag cases see how that works then buy some slower powder and keep going up. what do you think, and all i have is pure ww lead

[nanuk]

note where the change in the bore tightness it, you will probably find the forearm lug right there....

that is why the handis seem to like firelapping a lot.

[curator]

Mike,

My Handi-.357 has the same long chamber/throat problem and was leading like crazy with almost any cast boolit load. I began seating the boolits out as far as possible and leading diminished and accuracy improved. Using Alliant 2400 and .357 brass, 180 grain plain base slugs (about 1250fps) cluster nicely at 50 and 100 yards when seated out to just touch the rifling leade. Once you find the right combination, these guns are great shooters.

[mike_kaleigh]

thanks guys, is fire lapping worth it to smooth out the lead in or just go and get the 357 max reamer?

[seaboltm]

Fire lapping helps even out the barrel, especially where stampings are, and on the handi, where the forearm bolt is. I think reaming to 357 max is a great performance idea, but unless the reamer is designed with a different lead in, you will have the same problem. A Mike Bellm can fix this problem for you, ream to 357 max with the proper throat, and I think his prices are reasonable.

[Goatwhiskers]

Mike, not bashing Mike Belm at all here, he does top flite work, but if you are a member over on the graybeard forum you can rent the reamer and do it yourself. It is a rifle chamber reamer which is the correct one rather than a pistol reamer. Just a matter of whether you'd rather work with a pro or do it yourself. GW

[mike_kaleigh]

right now i have the lee tl 158 swc and just for fun i dropped a bullet in the chamber so it is against the rifling well i could not believe how far it went in, but how far out do you guys seat theis bullits in a 357mag case

[MT Gianni]

0.01" from the rifling if it chambers OK.

[Whiterabbit]

was i exceeding the pressure the bullet can take because it is a long jump to the rifling ?

no. long jumps REDUCE pressure, not increase. Not only does some gas escape around the bullet before it hits the lands, but the "chamber of air" behind the bullet as it seals up the bore is bigger than if it stopped earlier, which means for a given qty of burned powder, the pressure is lower.

But really, it's a handi. quickloads tells me some of my loads are approaching 40ksi, according to some folks here on the boards. The gun and barrel are strong.

My advice? Based on personal OPINION, not personal experience. You want a "faster" load? go with a bigger bullet and keep the speed nice and low. Substitute power and penetration for speed as the goal.

[mike_kaleigh]

sorry guys but i have been real busy at work and it is cooooold so the gun went to the safe, but i tried some other loads and as long as i keep everything under 1100 fps everything is good and no leading, and i did smooth out the throat. do you guys think that the fact it has a long throat that is the diameter of the outside of the brass and not the bullet diameter like other caliber might be causing most problems. i mean not only is the throat long but loose in relation to the bullet, because in 357 it has a .4 inch jump to the rifling with the chamber diameter not the bore diameter. a revolver has a ridge at the end of the cylinder that is bore diameter. i was thinking that stops a lot of gas bypassing the bullet, and stopping you from cambering the wrong round. but in the handi a lot of gas can go around the bullet. i tumble lube and do get a lot of lube residue in that area.