A slight rant [Archive]

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Petrol & Powder

12-26-2013, 11:40 AM

Not really a rant, maybe just venting.
Years ago I had some big bore handguns but for various reasons I gravitated towards the mid-bores (38 Special, 9mm, etc.) In that slow but steady process some of the big bore stuff got traded or sold. Now I have an itch for a .44 Special and I'm having a difficult time scratching that itch.

I know you can shoot .44 Special in a .44 Magnum but I don't really want a magnum revolver. I'd like to find a solid, but not necessarily beautiful, .44 Special revolver but they appear to have taken on some type of cult following. In fact, if you can find one; they command prices that I'm not willing to pay.

Now I don't have unreasonable expectations about current firearm prices and I truly believe in the free market. I'm fine with the price being set by what the market will bear but what is going on with the .44 Special?

I'd like a 4" tapered barrel and it's starting to look like the .44 magnum "Mountain Gun" may be my only option.

OK, I'm done venting or ranting or whatever. I feel better now.

Guesser

12-26-2013, 12:41 PM

I also moved away from 44 magnum and gravitated to 44 Special. My first was a 1992 Taurus Model 441 stainless 6". I am the 4th owner, I knew the others. It has been mine for 12 years and I have put a little more than 12,000 hand loads thru it with never a hiccup. I recently came into it's blue twin, barely ever fired, got it from it's first owner, wonderful revolver. Came into a Uberti/Cimarron Model "P", 5.5" in November. All three of these are fine shooters and love cast boolits. I had a beautiful Lew Horton S&W Model 624, 3", gorgeous gun that I could not make shoot for sour owl doodoo. It went to market for more money than I ever expected to get for it. 44 Special is my favorite big bore.

Petrol & Powder

12-26-2013, 01:04 PM

You're not the first person to experience S&W quality issues. That's one of my problems with the asking prices of model 24's and 624's, you just don't know what you're buying. Even the Thunder Ranch model 21 with that logo and stupid lock would be acceptable if the prices weren't so insane. I don't mind spending a little money and getting a fixable gun but I don't want to spend a lot of money for a un-fixable gun. It also seems that S&W didn't care much about the 44 Specials and marketed the 44 magnums more aggressively.

Dale53

12-26-2013, 01:47 PM

Petrol & Powder;
You might want to consider one of the Ruger Lipsey Specials. They were a recent limited addition but are still showing them in stock. I have a blued Ruger with 5½" barrel and also a SS with a 4 5/8" barrel. They both are shooters. I did have a trigger job done on them but they are wonderful flattop single actions. You will also note that Lipsey has a Colt single action in .44 Special (for lots of bucks).

http://www.lipseys.com/itemfinder.aspx?type=Revolver&caliber=44+Special&action=Single+Action

I also have a pair of Smith 624's (4" and 6½" barrels).

The Rugers shoot as well as the Smiths but the Smiths have better triggers. You won't go wrong with either. .44 Special is a wonderful field load.

The neat thing about the Lipsey Specials is that they are on the mid-size frame with a steel grip. FINE revolvers!!

You'll just need to get your local dealer to order you one (that's what I did).

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0388.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0388.jpg.html)

Just to wet your appetite, here is my 4" Model 624:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0307.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/DalesPistolsRevolvers4Selects-0307.jpg.html)

Good luck on your quest!
Dale53

John Allen

12-26-2013, 01:51 PM

That Lipsey sure is a pretty gun.

Petrol & Powder

12-26-2013, 02:00 PM

376Steyr

12-26-2013, 02:48 PM

Petrol & Powder

12-26-2013, 03:02 PM

I made my own 4" S&W .44 Special. Take a used 686, a new rebored 686 Mountain Gun barrel, and a new 5-shot .44 696 cylinder. Add one custom pistolsmith and let simmer for 6 months. It's nifty, and I only have about $1500 into it!:roll:
I thought about that route............
If I could find a mechanically sound N-frame 44 Special that I could send to Robar, that would be another path.

Char-Gar

12-26-2013, 03:28 PM

Over the years I have had a number of sixguns in 44 Special and 44 Magnum. I never could figure out a reason to have a 44 Special. The 44 Magnum can be loaded down to Special velocities and deliver superlative accuracy. The 44 Special offers nothing over the 44 Magnum in terms of accuracy or anything else I know off.

I have only managed to hang on to one 44 Special handgun, an early 30's Hand Ejector that has been over the bench at Micro to turn it into a first rate target pistol. Here is a pic. Also included are pics of my 1962 Ruger Super Blackhawk and a 1992 Smith and Wesson 5 inch. They are all good handguns, but the Special would be sold down river long before the Magnums go.

Guesser

12-26-2013, 03:46 PM

I would like to see Ruger take their GP-100 and make a 5 shot 44 Special. I like the medium frame size. "N" frames are too big for 44 Special.
The GP-100 would also make a great 5 shot 41 Magnum.

Alan in Vermont

12-26-2013, 04:10 PM

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Charter Arms line of 5-shot , 44 Special revolvers. I have an older Bulldog and my son has a 4" Target Bulldog. Both are pretty good shooters and well worth the money.

http://charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Bulldog_74440.asp

Larry Gibson

12-26-2013, 04:47 PM

I had a 4" M28 (.357) rechambered and the barrel bored out and lined to .44 SPL. Really liked that gun and the 429421 over 16.5 gr 2400 in modern cases was an outstanding load at 1050 fps. Killed a nice mule deer buck with it and a couple coyote's....like a fool I let myself get "talked" out of it.......

Larry Gibson

Groo

12-26-2013, 04:59 PM

Groo here
Just go with a 41mag.
I had 44mag,45colt &acp,454,475l. loaded all over the map.
Then I got a 3in 657,, I can shoot it as well as Dads m-28 with mags !!
I still have the others but come back to the 41.

BruceB

12-26-2013, 05:20 PM

Well, dang.... Chargar and I find ourselves on the same page yet again.

For many years, I've owned .44 Magnums, carrying and using them extensively. Cast bullets have been my exclusive choice for these .44s for about fifty years.

I load three different "levels" of ammunition, ALL of them in .44 Magnum cases.

1. ".44 LITE"...... a LEE 200 RN with a small flat on the nose...... 800 fps

2. ".44-1000"....RCBS 250KT...1000 fps (what else, with a name like that?)

3. "44 Magnum"... the same 250KT, depending on the gun, moving out at 1350-1450fps.

The different loads with identical bullets are color-coded on the primers with plastic-model enamel. Hot loads get "hot" colors....red, orange, pink, yellow. Reduced loads wear blue, black, green etc...."cool".

These loads cover the full spectrum of the .44-caliber's usefulness, as far as I'm concerned. They work well for me, and I seriously doubt that I'll ever own a gun marked, "44 SPECIAL". It's just not needed for my purposes.

big dale

12-26-2013, 05:37 PM

I have been kinda looking for a 44 Special for decades, but each time I have started looking around the shops for a used one I have stumbled on to another old model Super Blackhawk that still looks new for a reasonable price and it followed me home each time. I figure the two I have now will be with me till they shovel dirt in my face. I have been pretty comfortable with them for all of these decades. Most often I shoot mid range loads, but with a few cylinder-fulls each range session of full loads and always with Keith style lead boolits.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

Char-Gar

12-26-2013, 05:47 PM

Bruce...I am not surprised that we so often see things alike. Decades of hands on experience with firearms tends to teach the same things to different people. Shoot enough 44s for a long enough period of time and the magnum will step out of the crowd to show you it's merit.

For small game and plinking I have long used 5/Bulleye over any decent 220 to 250 grain bullet in the magnum case. A dose of Unique will up the velocity to 900 - 1,100 fps which is about all any 44 Special will do. Throw in some 2400 and you are now into full snort magnum area, doing things the Special could never dream about.

I have found the 44 Magnum to be a very friendly round producing sterling accuracy all the way up and down the power level. Accurate loads are very easy to find. I shoot 500 Special level loads (44 Magnum brass) for every full snort magnum load I pull the trigger on.

I have tried to work up a love affair with the 44 Special like Skeeter and others, but I really don't see the charm. Owning a 44 Special is like owning 2/3s of a 44 Magnum. You don't need that extra/top 1/3 very often, but it is nice to have it available should the need arise. It is like having an extra $100.00 bill folded and tucked away in your wallet, just in case.

At least that is what a half century of handgunning has taught me. The 44 Magnum is not my favorite sixgun rounds (that honor goes to the mild mannered 38 Special and 45 ACP), but if I could only own one handgun, it would be a 44 Magnum. It is the most versatile handgun round ever made.

BruceB

12-26-2013, 06:32 PM

Full agreement.

Back around 1963 or so, I was working at a gold mine near Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories. It was then a small town of maybe 3500 people, but by FAR the largest in 1.25 million square miles... not acres! I was single, kinda poor, but already a hopeless gun nut. I'd been reading about .44 Magnums, but had no realistic hope of owning one for some time to come.

Walking around the Hudson's Bay Company store, I met the owner of the local hardware store, who told me to come to his store because "he had something to show me." This man KNEW an easy mark when he saw one!

It was a flat-top Ruger .44, 7.5" barrel, with a holster and some ammo. It cost me $90, as I now recall.... that was a lot when earning $400 per month. Anyway, I did all the required registration formalities with the RCMP, and caught a taxi to the mine with my pals.

On the way, we were talking about the new revolver when the cabbie sez, "I have a .44."

"What kind?"

"Smith and Wesson."

"Is it for sale?"

"Yep."

"IS IT REGISTERED?"

"Nope."

"Turn this cab around!"

And so, going to town with NO intent to own a .44 for the foreseeable future, I went back to the staff house that afternoon with TWO dandy .44 Magnums, kindling an affair that survives to this day.

My favorite current .44 is a 1989 Mountain Revolver, a somewhat-lighter version of the stainless 629 series. It serves extremely well as both a .44 SPECIAL and a .44 MAGNUM, as the need strikes me.

Petrol & Powder

12-26-2013, 08:03 PM

I don't dislike the 44 Mag, I just prefer the 44 Special round. Factory loads aren't much to talk about but handloads can safely be pushed a bit more, kind of a 44 Mag. "lite". What I want is the tapered 4 " barrel of the "Mountain Gun" without the longer cylinder of the magnum. I can't even begin to offer any logical reason for this desire, it's purely an itch. I hear all the comments about the ability to download the 44 Magnum and I agree with those comments completely. Wish I could offer some sound logic in defense of my desire, but there isn't any.

GOPHER SLAYER

12-26-2013, 09:47 PM

I have had a love affair with the 44 special since way back when Skeeter used to write for Shooting times. He wrote endless stories about them, especially the 44 SPL in the Colt SA. I just had to have one and Colts were not very expensive then. The problem was Colt didn't like the 44. Whenever I had the money all I could find were .357 sa with long barrels. I finally took a Colt SA in 32-20 along with a cylinder and barrel I had bought at Dixie Gun Works. I gave 19 bucks for one and 25 for the other I don't remember which was which. The problem was, the barrel was 7-1/2 inches long. I turned them and my Colt SA over to what was supposed to be some gun smiths. They cut the barrel to 4-3/4 and reset the front sight. Not very well I might add. Vey sloppy work. The sight has never come loose but you can see file marks under the bluing. The two problems I soon found were the gun shot a foot high at 25 yards and I couldn't keep the ejector rod housing on the gun. I did keep the 32-20 barrel and cylinder so some day I will reunite them with the revolver. I do have a model 29 in excellent condition but it is just too big for me. About two years ago the widow of a man I used to shoot with asked if I could help sell his guns which were mostly pistols and most of them were 44 specials and 44 mags, all in double action Smiths. I didn't buy any of them but I did buy a Ruger.357 SA with two cylinders. A friend bought a model 19. Before I could sell anymore a daughter swooped in and took everything to a gun shop. That dude made out. I do drool over those Lipsey 44 specials. I once owned An early Ruger 44 mag with a four digit serial number. First year of production. I hated to part with it but my son's collage tuition was due so several guns had to go. At my age I will probably not ever get my 44 spl sa.

Tatume

12-27-2013, 04:51 PM

Just go with a 41mag.

There's no accounting for tastes, and if a 44 Special is what you want then a 44 Special is what you should have. However, if you ever try a four-inch S&W M57 Mountain Gun, you will fall in love with it.

Whereabouts in Central Virginia are you? Maybe we can get together this summer and you can try mine.

Take care, Tom

Petrol & Powder

12-27-2013, 10:10 PM

PM sent

williamwaco

12-27-2013, 10:19 PM

I have had really bad luck with the current Charter Arms bulldog.

http://reloadingtips.com/reviews/charter_arms_bulldog.htm

375supermag

12-27-2013, 10:36 PM

Hi...

I think the way to go is the Lipsey's Ruger flat top in .44Special. I ordered one the day they were announced with a 5-1/2" barrel.
It has fired thousands of rounds of exactly one load...240gr commercial cast LSWC over 7.5gr of Unique. Accurate and powerful enough for anything smaller than grizzly bears, I would think. I have shot the same load in a Taurus 5-shot stainless .44Spl, but it may be a touch to powerful for such a lightly built revolver.

My .44Mag revolvers generally get a steady diet of 10.0gr of Unique over the same 240gr LSWC for general shooting.
Heavier loads are reserved for hunting, but the big .44Mag six guns rarely go hunting anymore. Just too big and heavy...I have a Model 29 with an 8-3/8" barrel, a Virginian Dragoon with a 7-1/2" barrel, a SBH with a 7-1/2" barrel and a Dan Wesson with a 6" barrel. I sold my SRH with a 9-1/2" barrel during a divorce a quarter century ago...never did replace it.

Petrol & Powder

12-27-2013, 10:41 PM

10-4 on the Charter Arms. That, ....I guess,.. company? ....has gone through so may permutations I'm not sure if there's anything left but the name. A bit of a shame because the design is OK and some people had good luck with the older examples.

I'm looking for something DA, 6 round and 4" tapered barrel - which puts me in the (incredibly expensive) S&W N-frame 44 Special cult.

I'm not sure why the model 24's and 624 have achieved such a cult like status, but they have.

I want one, but not nearly bad enough to justify the current asking prices.

wallenba

12-27-2013, 10:44 PM

Couple of years ago I stumbled upon an old 4" model 24 S&W. You know, the ones with the firing pin pinned in the hammer. Serial number 6xx, still in the box, never fired. Guy knew what it was, and wanted 1K for it. Paid it and love it.

Petrol & Powder

12-27-2013, 11:01 PM

rintinglen

12-28-2013, 03:24 AM

I can not concur with the adoration placed on the 44 Special. It has not been all that and a bag of chips IME.

My first misadventure into "Specialhood" was in 1976. Being young and easily influenced, I bought a Colt SAA 5 1/2 incher. It was brand new, beautiful, and shot like a shotgun. I sold it with glee and never read a word that a certain Cowboy wrote again, with out inwardly wondering, "How much BS is he slinging this time?" My next excursion was a Charter Arms Bulldog. It ought to have been named Cerberus, because it bit at both ends, When I launched a couple of boolits over a friends newly purchased chronograph, and the numbers came up in the low 700's, I felt it time to move on. Too much sturm und drang for too little oomph. But I didn't give up.
Skeeter Skelton and Dean Grennell both were extolling the praises of the S&W M-24's and when they started making them again in the early 80's, I pawned my soul and bought one, then rather painlessly managed to buy a 624 shortly there after. Neither was a particularly bad gun, but neither was all that great either. I carried the 6 1/2 inch 624 for a year or so when Autos were verboten and shot it a bunch, mostly with home cast RCBS 44-250 KT boolits. But it never quite measured up. MyS&W M-66 357 would shoot groups an inch smaller with my homecast boolits, and my 6 inch Colt Python would group even tighter. The 4 inch 24 didn't stay long: a good friend of mine just had to have it and offered me too much in trade for me to keep it. I didn't shoot it much, but I don't recall it being anything to write home about. I sold the 6 1/2 624 when my youngest needed medical attention after a bicycle accident, and for over 15 years, I didn't own a 44 special.

That changed about 6 years ago when I bought a beautiful 4 inch nickle-plated M-21. It shot pretty well, but was really too pretty to crud up, so I started looking. I found a S&W 544 Texas Wagon Train Commemorative 5 inch blued 44-40. It was in a pawn shop, and cheap at 400 bucks, I bought that, a M-27 cylinder and paid a local gunsmith too darned much to have the cylinder bored out to 44 special and fitted to the gun. It shoots well, and was the first 44 Special (sort of) that ever lived up to my expectations.
But the only one to really shine is my Ruger Flat top. That gun is scary accurate. I wish I could see well enough to really put it to the test, but my 60 year old eyes are still good enough in bright daylight to get the occasional 1 1/2 inch group at 25 yards with the Skeeter Skelton load. Those three complete my battery of 44 Specials now, and barring something odd, they'll likely be the last I ever own.
But in my experience, you have a much better chance of getting an accurate 38 Special, 357 magnum, or 44 magnum than you do a 44 special. Only the 45 colt is less likely to be accurate, in my observation.
But you might get lucky!
91797

Petrol & Powder

12-28-2013, 09:13 AM

Rintinglen, thanks for sharing your experiences. My attraction to the 38 Special and the 9mm is pretty strong and I don't think I'll ever leave that camp. The .44 Special was an ok round for me years ago but that was with factory ammo and commercial cast bullets. I've recently developed a desire to revive that experiment with cast boolits but I'm not going to sell the farm to do it. I've got 38 Special revolvers that cost a third of the asking price of the average 44 Special and they shoot just fine. I can't figure out what is driving the price of 44's so high. Nobody seems to want one and yet they command a premium somehow.

I have no intention of spending a pile of money to join the 44 Special cult but if I can get an "associate cult membership" :???: for a little bit of money, I might try it out. :drinks:

oger

12-29-2013, 05:54 PM

I still have my Horton 624 and as had been said it wouldn't hit anything the way it was built. First problem is that they came with the wrong rear sight blade making elevation zeroing for most people almost impossible and the second problem is the grips are simply too large for most people to use. A sight blade change and more user friendly grips made it a very usable weapon.

376Steyr

12-30-2013, 11:50 AM

I, too, was unimpressed with my first .44 Special. Rock-hard commercial SWCs with crayon lube, sized .429 over 7.5 grs of Unique, were not a good match with S&W .432 cylinder throats. Straight wheel weight home cast, dropping at .430 and sized to .429, weren't much better. Fast forward a bunch of years, and my Ruger Flattop, with softer alloy from a new mould, dropping at .433, sized to 432, through .432 throats, shoots gratifying groups.

35 Whelen

12-30-2013, 11:04 PM

Sounds like some of you fellas have bought some ill-manufactured handguns, and chose to place blame on the cartridge. Doesn't make much sense to me. Buy a crappy gun chambered in .44 Magnum, and it's guaranteed scatter bullets too.

The .44 Special isn't accurate????

92046

92047

92048

92053

92054

Capable of loads within a few feet per second of .44 Magnum loads provided by the Big 3, yet it isn't powerful enough?

92055

If you .44 Magnum lovers feel the need to load your .44 Magnums to wrist twisting levels, that's your privilege. Meanwhile, I'll keep killing game with my underpowered, inaccurate .44 Specials.

92056

92057

92058

The argument that "if a .44 Special is good, then a .44 Magnum is better" really doesn't hold much water. If it did, then we'd have no 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 308 Win., 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby, etc. Anyone wanting a .30 caliber rifle would simply own a 30-378 and "load it down". Ditto for the 38 Special vs. 357 Magnum, and the 44. Magnum vs. 454 Casull, and on and on....

The OP has made it clear he's looking for a .44 Special.

Someone once said something to the effect "If I have to explain my love for the .44 Special to you, you wouldn't understand anyway...". That's pretty much my sentiments....and evidently many others as well.

35W