Herters information needed

[contender1]

I came into a Herters swaging tool. It says 9 ton on the box. Alas,, there were no instructions, or anything except a .38 cal tool in it. It appears to be new. I was thinking it's for swaging bullets.
Anybody have one?
Anybody have any instructions for one?
Any advice?
ALL information will be appreciated.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/rugersa44/Christmas2013026_zps71dfde92.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/rugersa44/media/Christmas2013026_zps71dfde92.jpg.html)


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f27/rugersa44/Christmas2013027_zps6345c6e4.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/rugersa44/media/Christmas2013027_zps6345c6e4.jpg.html)

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Is this what you have?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?82394-Old-Herters-Press-suitable-for-swaging

[Bent Ramrod]

I had one a long time ago and no longer have either it or the instructions. However, I remember the setup was to put the hardened washer, the ejector rod, and the die body into the ram, in that order. I seem to recall there was a screw-in retaining ring to hold the setup in the ram. The nose forming punch went into the threaded hole in the end of the press, and was adjusted back and forth for the bullet weight and held with the set nut. None of the nose formers made bullets of the kind of shapes we recognize, except for the semi wad cutters. All of them had a rather pronounced rebate between the ogive and the side of the bullets.

Use only pure lead for cores, and only half jackets or gas checks. Any attempts to generate extreme pressure (like forming a longer jacket over a point) will crack the hardened washer behind the die body. This renders the setup useless unless and until a replacement is found. (A regular washer doesn't work; don't ask me how I know.) Also, check the diameter of your bullets when they come out of the die. The .22 caliber set I had cranked them out at 0.226" although I blithely shot them in my ,22 Hornet rifle and my .22 Jet pistol. I recall I had to send to Herter's for two or three of those washers, and had to buy a die body and a punch or two before I learned to moderate my lever technique.

The press and linkage always appeared to be plenty stout; too bad that washer was the weak link. On the other hand, the whole setup, with one die set, was only $20; good money at the time but at least within my budget.

[Bad Water Bill]

I bought an adapter from RCBS for about $19.95.

Now I can and do use conventional shell holders.

[gwpercle]

The 1967 Herter's catalog I have shows the press with the words " Herter's Super Bullet Maker " cast into the side of the press. It doesn't appear to be set up for regular reloading dies. The press, when mounted , is almost at a 45 degree angle...tilted back , with little clearance behind the ram for putting cases into and removing from a shellholder ...if there is one.
It looks like a really small, heavily built, severly angled back, press. It would not be called a "C" press...it looks like it is for swaging bullets and nothing else.
No instructions , sorry . In 67 it sold for $12.49 complete with one set of bullet forming dies.
Gary

[Bent Ramrod]

The 9-Ton I had was horizontal and made from a hexagonal billet of steel. It worked sort of like a Mity-Mite press. Herters had another Bulletmaker press that was more like a Swag-O-Matic, vertical operation. I think the 9-Ton used the same die-in-ram arrangement, but it was a different press entirely.

[contender1]

Thanks all,,, (so far).
It is not a reloading press, and no it doesn't look like the pics in Charlie Two tracks post.
I'll have to get some pics of it,, but it mounts to the end of a table or metal plate etc., not on top of a bench. The press body has two holes in the back where the mounting screws go through. I strongly believe it's for swaging lead bullets etc. not reloading ammo.
I'll see if I can get some pics up tomorrow.

[contender1]

Bump with pics now!
Anybody???

[contender1]

Another bump asking for help!

[Reg]

OK, took some looking but I think I have what you need. Do not have the original but do have good copy's of the factory sheets. They are called--- Assembly and operation instructions for Herters 9 ton pistol and rifle half and three quarter jacket bullet maker.
Cant scan worth a darn but if you will PM snail mail address, will make you a copy.
Reg

[contender1]

Reg,,, I'll PM you in a few moments. THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[denul]

Several of us went together on one of these in the early 70's, and it made very consistent half jacket and 3/4 jacketed bullets; the 9 ton model you have is designed for swaging only, and the dies and nose punches are specific to it. My tool and die maker brother made me a 41 die, and nose punch, after Herter's no longer offered parts. They also made 7/8 X 14 swaging dies to fit regular presses, and we broke a Herter's Model 234 using them.They even offered a 7/8X 14 clamshell looking die that swaged horizontal grooves into the bullet, so it could be lubricated. They worked, but were difficult to use. The half and 3/4 jacket bullets resembled Speer factory 41 and 44 bullets that were offered until a few years ago,with the jacket not extending onto the bullet nose. I later picked up some 7/8 X 14 C&H swaging dies to use in a standard press, which were designed to swage in 2 steps instead of one like the Herters; these allowed you to form a 3/4 length jacket over the ogive eliminating any possible leading. With a cannelure, these looked as good as factory JHP's, and were as accurate, in our experience. Never tried them on game. Hollow point or flat point were options, as well as round, wadcutter and semiwadcutter profiles. Helpful accessories for all of this included a lead wire core cutter, a cannelure tool, and of course the jackets. Lead wire diameter for cutting into cores varied according to the intended caliber, and Herter's was 3% antimony. George Herter's reloading manual has some details on his comparison of swaged vs. cast bullets, and he was correct that it's much easier to get consistency with swaged bullets. We gradually moved on to casting because of the difficulty getting lead wire and jackets, and because wheelweights were free or cheap, and too hard then to be used as swaging cores in these presses. (Gas checks can be used instead of jackets at lower velocities.) Casting cores to swage into bullets is possible, but seemed more trouble than just casting alone.There is an article in an old NRA Handloader's guide about swaging cast bullets, to improve their consistency after sizing and lubricating; I tried, it works, but seemed a lot of effort for the result. I still have the press and dies (but no instructions), with several thousand 1/2 jackets. Haven't used it in years, but may for a planned reunion - cookout shooting event with friends from the past.

[contender1]

denul,
WOW! Great info. It has helped answer many questions. If you still have your stuff, could I beg some pics of anything you have that I do not have? I do not have the manuals you mentioned, so if you have any of that info would be excellent. Reg is sending me a photocopy of the instructions.
I'd like to see if I can work on making some half-jacket or so bullets. I was hoping I might be able to make my own .223 j-word bullets from 22 cases with this press. From what you are saying, I can't. Drats!
I can send you my snail-mail address for any stuff you can copy.

[denul]

It'll take me a while to see what I can find, but send along the address and I'll mail what i can. I forgot to mention the one great advantage of the 9 ton press over the 7/8X18 press mounted swagers, is its full ejection of the bullet on the upstroke part of the cycle; the others can be a pain to eject.

[Reg]

Factory instructions now in the mail.
These press's were used in the past for swaging .22 LR casing bullets but I don't know any more than that about them. Factory dies were not offered, the .22 dies were made up.
If anyone is using one of these to make .22's could they put in their .02 worth. Would like some info, pictures, etc.

[B R Shooter]

You know, my Dad had Herters catalogs, and ordered some stuff from them. I remember looking through them from time to time, but I was a young-un. I sure would like to look at another one of those now, knowing things as I do now that I'm on the senior side of life.

[shooterg]

The .22 bullets were spire pointed on the one I had - since the half jackets aren't out there, you'd haveta trim .22 LR jackets or find someone shooting a lot of .22 shorts !
I still have one of the "clamshell" types in .44 somewhere in the mancave...

Gotta love the old Herter catalogs !

[contender1]

denul, Pm has been sent with my info.

MANY thanks for your help.

I'm starting to explore my options for making some swaged boolits out of 22 LR cases, and possibly some others in 357 & 45 cal. Since I have the press,,,, and a good gunsmith friend with machines,,,! Why not,, right?

If anybody has ANYTHING else to offer, want to discuss this etc, lets keep this thread alive as I'm learning,,,!

[Reg]

In a attempt to keep the thread alive and keep from going nuts let me ask if anyone has used or converted the 9Ton press for swaging .22 bullets using rim fire case’s please join in. Am trying to use mine for the above and not having any luck.
Somehow it looks like the ejector rod needs to follow up and hold its correct position then drop back to the ejecting position.
????

[firefly1957]

In a attempt to keep the thread alive and keep from going nuts let me ask if anyone has used or converted the 9Ton press for swaging .22 bullets using rim fire case’s please join in. Am trying to use mine for the above and not having any luck.
Somehow it looks like the ejector rod needs to follow up and hold its correct position then drop back to the ejecting position.
????

I use such a press for .22 bullet swaging I have never found out who makes the dies I assume Pacific who also made the Herter's press .
I also have .357 & .452 bullet dies they do not fit the 9 ton press as the ram is slightly larger . I did modify the ram to work in a Lyman Orange Crusher press . The dies were made to form half jacket bullets but do make good all lead/lead alloy bullets I have cut similar dies for .30 caliber and am working on .429 dies now .
Here is a image of my .22 dies :

320185

[Reg]

I have forming jackets and core seating down. It’s the final form where I am running into a stumbling block.
It would appear you are doing this with a modified ram? Might you have a picture of same?

[Ajax111]

Watching.

[Reg]

I use such a press for .22 bullet swaging I have never found out who makes the dies I assume Pacific who also made the Herter's press .
I also have .357 & .452 bullet dies they do not fit the 9 ton press as the ram is slightly larger . I did modify the ram to work in a Lyman Orange Crusher press . The dies were made to form half jacket bullets but do make good all lead/lead alloy bullets I have cut similar dies for .30 caliber and am working on .429 dies now .
Here is a image of my .22 dies :

320185


Firefly thank you. From that photograph I think I see exactly where I am going wrong.
I need to turn my thinking around. The Herter top (nose) punch becomes the base punch and ejecting punch and the old ejecting punch becomes a removable nose punch. From rough measuring it looks like I need to make a new ram about 3 1/2” long. Am thinking to make the nose die and the body die recessed the same way Vickery did for positive alignment and use Stressproof for the material.
We shall find out by Thanksgiving
Again. I thank you!!!
Will post any findings.

[contender1]

I'm the OP on this,, and I can say I never got to using that press. No dies around that I could easily find. I think I still have it in a box to be swapped or traded or sold somewhere.

I did get into swaging using my RockChucker though.

[firefly1957]

Reg A picture would not show much of the modified ram it is being used for pistol not .224" bullets .
However I looked though some files and found I may be calling my press the wrong name ? Is your 9 ton press horizontal? I have seen the vertical press called the same (9 ton) and I have the vertical press . Your pictures are not showing and neither are they in this link: (2010)
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?79941-Herters-9-Ton-Press
This is my press below however I have a PDF for a Herter's 9 ton I will try to post next reply....
320283

[firefly1957]

Now see if I can open PDF here? P.S. the ram looks to be the same in both units!