Mauser 98 rebarrel question

[louism]

I want to run this by someone who knows more about this than me. I have a Yugo M24/52C which is a large ring Mauser in 8mm. It had a shot out barrel so I purchased a new Yugo surplus barrel. I was able to break the old barrel free using the proper tools. The new barrel had the safety ring as it is called but the old did not. I set the new barrel up in the lathe and turned that ring off. I did this after comparing the chamber depth to the old barrel and it was the same when measured from the mating surfaces. As a test I hand tightened the new barrel to the action and tried my no go gauge and it would not close. That is a good thing. Next since I do not have a go gauge I tried a factory round (after pulling it down). I coated the case head with blue and closed the bolt on it. It closed easily but could feel some contact with the case. I pulled the case and checked the blue. There was lite contact by the bolt face with a little of the blue smeared. I did strip the bolt before any of my checks. It was about the same after torquing the barrel down. My question is should I consider it good to go or do I need to order a go gauge to be sure.

[Ben]

I'm no gunsmith, but I'd be tempted to tie the barreled action to an old large truck tire . Use a lanyard and fire a factory round.

Use a micrometer an go over the fired case and compare the mike readings to a factory unfired case.

Sounds to me like you are real close.
You wouldn't be the 1st person to head space a bolt action rifle with a factory round.

Ben

[aspangler]

You should be good to go. If your no go gage won't let the bolt close with the barrel tight and a factory round will let it close, take it to the firing range. You have a 2-6 thousands leeway.

[louism]

Thanks guys, those were my thoughts also. It measures very much in line with other Mauser 8mm rifles I own. I just wanted to be sure I was not missing anything. I did quite a bit of research before I attempted this. My results were typical of others that have installed these Yugo replacement barrels.

[Multigunner]

Depending on the ammo you have used for your tests you might later on run across some ammo that won't let the bolt close. I'd just wait till that became an issue if it ever does, and it probably won't.
You'll probably gain a couple of thousandths headspace after the first thousand rounds or so, or if you had the rifle re proofed with a proof test cartridge. Maybe not if the rifle has been fired enough that both lugs already seat with full contact.

Have you inspected the seats to look for signs of setback?
A friend who has rebarreled these always blue prints the action by first using a diamond wheel and fitting made from a cut off barrel shank to true up the seats and remove any signs of set back. He only does this if it can be done without removing more than .002 of the metal to avoid compromising the carburized layer.

[louism]

There does not appear to be any setback on either of the seats. Both locking lugs are making good contact as well. I guess this went a lot better than I had expected and that makes me suspesious. This rifle was in great shape other than the corroded bore. It would not hit the broad side of a barn from the inside. And if it did it would shoot a keyhole.

[Ben]

Go shoot some groups and share the results with us.

Sounds like you've done a good job.

Ben

[jonk]

I wouldn't worry about it. If you have a minor headspace issue, just neck size the fireformed brass and be done with it.

[louism]

Well I took it to the back and fired a couple of high end loads using a bench vice and the string method. The cases measured the same length after firing as they did before so no stretching. They were also the same after resizing.
I would thing these are good signs right?

[Multigunner]

Sounds perfect, you should have excellent case life. Good show.

[Big Rack]

I think you can also cut some shim stock and grease it to the back of cartridge to determine how much room you have.

[MtGun44]

Getting head space dead nuts on is highly overrated. As a reloader you can compensate
for significant headspace issues - as long as it isn't so short as to make it difficult to close
the bolt.

Sounds to me like you are in great shape with your setup.

Bill

[Nickle]

I'll vouch for what Bill just posted.

Once the cases are fireformed to fit the chamber, and then you just neck size, headspace is moot.

Compensated for it before.

[fguffey]

I want to run this by someone who knows more about this than me. I have a Yugo M24/52C which is a large ring Mauser in 8mm. It had a shot out barrel so I purchased a new Yugo surplus barrel. I was able to break the old barrel free using the proper tools. The new barrel had the safety ring as it is called but the old did not. I set the new barrel up in the lathe and turned that ring off. I did this after comparing the chamber etc..

The moment you realized the barrel you ordered did not match the barrel you removed you should have ask 'WHY?' Why didn't the two barrels match? The two barrel did not match because there is a difference between the Yugo and Check-O rifle. The barrels were different because the receivers are different. If you have a 52c it is a VC 24 rebuilt in 52.

I would have checked the chamber length before removing the barrel and I would have checked case head protrusion from the chamber. Most of my Mauser barrels have .110 case head protrusion, when checked with a go-gage the protrusion of the gage is .115", the no go-gage would protrude .118". But, protrusion would be determined when measuring from the 'C' ring down to the bolt face.

I do not know if your barrel is seated against the 'C' torque ring or of the front of the receiver is seated against the shoulder at the end of the threads, when hand tightening a Mauser barrel to the C ring I measure the gap between the front of the receiver and shoulder at the end of the threads on the barrel.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Getting head space dead nuts on is highly overrated. As a reloader you can compensate
for significant headspace issues - as long as it isn't so short as to make it difficult to close
the bolt.

Sounds to me like you are in great shape with your setup.

Bill

For short chambers there is always forming/sizing cases for short chambers.

I have a chamber that is .016" longer that a minimum length case from the shoulder to the case head, that makes the chamber .011" longer than a go-gage length chamber. To make all of this work all I have to keep up with is the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face.

F. guffey

[louism]

I would have checked the chamber length before removing the barrel and I would have checked case head protrusion from the chamber. Most of my Mauser barrels have .110 case head protrusion, when checked with a go-gage the protrusion of the gage is .115", the no go-gage would protrude .118". But, protrusion would be determined when measuring from the 'C' ring down to the bolt face.

I do not know if your barrel is seated against the 'C' torque ring or of the front of the receiver is seated against the shoulder at the end of the threads, when hand tightening a Mauser barrel to the C ring I measure the gap between the front of the receiver and shoulder at the end of the threads on the barrel.

F. Guffey

Actually I did measure this the protrusion using the gauge. It was the same on the new barrel after I removed the ring as on the old barrel without the ring. I believe it is seated on the C ring. I coated the surface with blue and the only contact point I could detect was on the C ring. The outer shoulder did not appear to contact the receiver. When hand tightened I could slip my thinnest feeler gauge (don't remember the thickness) into the gap between the receiver and the barrel.

[fguffey]

I want to run this by someone who knows more about this than me....... My question is should I consider it good to go or do I need to order a go gauge to be sure.

I do not covet gages I use them. The go, no and beyond gages are a standard, they are transfers. The no go-gage is .004" longer than the go-gage, the field reject gage is .004" longer than the no go-gage. You have indicated the bolt closes with felt resistance when using a minimum length/full length sized case. That indicates your chamber is shorter than a go-gage length gage. If that was true you could have seated the barrel to the 'C' ring then measured the gap between the receiver and shoulder at the end of the threads. You said you did that, without a go-gage you could have used the no go-gage, after securing the barrel hand tight and measuring the gap you could have backed the barrel off 1/2? turn`(.042") then install the no go-gage, closed the bolt then screwed the barrel in until it contacted the gage.

When the barrel contacts the gage the gap between the receiver and barrel should equal the original gap plus the difference between the length of a minimum length/full length sized case and the length of a no go-gage, meaning the gap should be .009" plus the original gap.

It is possible to measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face at least two different ways with out a head space type gage. I find it easier to do than it is to convince someone it can be done.

Your rifle is a VZ24 Brno, Russia is not the only place the Germans had their rifles captured, Russia is the only place they talk about loosing their weapons. The Germans abandoned piles of rifles in other countries.

F. Guffey

[nekshot]

fguffey, I replaced 98 barrels the same way the poster did his, is there something fundamentally wrong with this method? Always desiring to learn more if applicable is why I ask.

[fguffey]

fguffey, I replaced 98 barrels the same way the poster did his, is there something fundamentally wrong with this method? Always desiring to learn more if applicable is why I ask.


"I want to run this by someone who knows more about this than me. (Skip) I pulled the case and checked the blue. There was lite contact by the bolt face with a little of the blue smeared. I did strip the bolt before any of my checks. It was about the same after torqueing the barrel down. My question is should I consider it good to go or do I need to order a go gauge to be sure"

neckshot, I did not say 'fundamentally wrong'. the OP wanted a critique, he installed a barrel, after installing the barrel he chambered a minimum length/full length sized case with slight resistance to bolt closing meaning his chamber was shorter than a go-gage length chamber. He did not have a head space gage, in my opinion he did not need a head space gage if he had a no go-gage and used the feeler gage to check the gap between the front of the receiver and shoulder at the end of the threads.

Fundamentally different? Yes. I would have checked the length of the chamber first before removing the barrel, to verify I would have checked the case head protrusion from the barrel that was removed and I would have measured the distance from the 'C' ring down to the bolt face. If the head space (chamber length) was correct the distance from the 'C' ring to the bolt face would be .005" greater than the case protruding from the barrel when measured from the face of the barrel to the case head.

"if applicable, why? I ask. I have head space gages, I do not have every head space gage, for me, not a problem, I make comparators, I make datums, I understand the concept of zero (.0000"). And, I verify.

To me it makes sense to size a case and measure the length of the case from the datum/shoulder to the head of the case, when forming cases I can form cases for short chambers. With a RCBS shell holder I can form cases that are shorter than a minimum length/full length sized case by .012". Going the other way I can add .016" to the length of the case from the datum/shoulder to the head of the case. that would be .016" longer than a minimum length sized case if .000" is understood, the same case would be .011" longer than a go-gage, .006" longer than a no go-gage and .002" longer than a field reject gage.

I do not have an 8mm57 Reamer, have an 8mm06 chamber reamer. If I replace an 8mm57 barrel it will be replaced with a barrel with n 8mm06 chamber. I cut the chamber before I install the barrel, unlike all the stories about no one knowing where when they start and finish I know where I am at all times within .001". On the Mauser it is the distance from the C ring down to the bolt face on the receiver side and case head protrusion from the face of the bolt to the case head. I have purchased barrels from Midway that were short chambered? One was .225" short, they were thinking it would take more time but I had to keep up with 'where I was'? I was concerned the reamer would not last long at that rate, I know, there are roughing reamers.

F. Guffey

[louism]

fguffey Thanks for your replies. The things you point out are things I would have not thought of but make perfect sense once explained. Now I more fully understand what we are measuring and how there are other ways to produce the same end result. By the way, factory ammo was slight resistance but the cases I size using my Lee dies are just a slight rub on the case head so I think I have a chamber that is about correct for my setup.