Stuck brass in my 29 [Archive]

waco

12-24-2013, 11:57 PM

Smith 29-5
Gun was cleaned prior to shooting.
The load is with mixed brass, (not sure how many x fired)
429421 over 8gr Unique.
I can't budge the cases out of the cylinder with hand pressure.
Time for the brass punch and small mallet.
Any ideas on whats up?
I haven't had any issues in the past.
Old brass maybe?
Loads were VERY mild...
Thanks
Waco

waksupi

12-25-2013, 12:46 AM

Almost sounds like a bulged cylinder. Try taking center diameter measurement of the outside of the cylinder, and compare it to the other pairings.
Have you tried poking them out with a stick? Maybe the ejector is jammed up some how?

44man

12-25-2013, 11:53 AM

Simple problem! Muck between the brass and chamber, just crud. Brass can't expand and seal so lube and powder residue comes back outside the brass---filth.
Why are you shooting the 429421 with such a screwy load?

waco

12-25-2013, 02:55 PM

chsparkman

12-25-2013, 03:20 PM

Has that gun been shot using .44 special ammo? Had the same problem in my .357 RBH after shooting .38 special. The cases not expanding also sounds plausible.

rintinglen

12-25-2013, 03:29 PM

Sounds as though there something else at play than a little dirt. I've run hundreds of 9.0 grain loads through my 44's, even my Tracker likes them. If this is a new gun, I'd look long and hard at the cylinders for evidence of roughness. If it is not, then it sounds like a bulged chamber. Take a pencil and push them out one at a time, if one sticks, you'll have identified the culprit.

waco

12-25-2013, 10:34 PM

Well, 4 of the six cases pushed out with ease and two needed tapped out with a brass punch. The gun was clean before shooting it, and all the cylinders look good(free of gunk).
91604

I measured the outside of the cylinder with calipers on all sides. Everything was plus/minus .001"
I used a mic to measure the heads on all the fired brass.

All were the same. Everything looks good.

76 WARLOCK

12-26-2013, 12:55 AM

8grains of Unique is my plinking load in my 44 mountain pistol and it works very well.

WALLNUTT

12-26-2013, 01:12 AM

What is screwy about a 429421 over 8gr of Unique in 44mag?

waco

12-26-2013, 01:41 AM

What is screwy about a 429421 over 8gr of Unique in 44mag?

If it isn't a full charge of 296, Jim doesn't think it is worthy...:)

MtGun44

12-26-2013, 02:14 AM

Very odd. Mild load, should not stick. Look hard at the brass, outside should
tell the tale.

Bill

waco

12-26-2013, 02:42 AM

I could not see anything wrong. The mic said the same thing......

91616

The two on the left were the ones that stuck.

Artful

12-26-2013, 03:06 AM

The load is with mixed brass, (not sure how many x fired)

could be the brass is getting tired - when did you last anneal?

Bzcraig

12-26-2013, 03:16 AM

The load is with mixed brass, (not sure how many x fired)

could be the brass is getting tired - when did you last anneal?

How often should it be annealed?

rintinglen

12-26-2013, 03:20 AM

Rule of thumb that I use is 5 loads, then anneal, but I am not fanatic about it.

44man

12-26-2013, 08:33 AM

What is screwy about a 429421 over 8gr of Unique in 44mag?
More or less funnin you guys, I use 7 gr for fun can shooting myself! But there is a lot of filth on the brass, a lot of lube too. Even the tumbler won't remove it all so I have to scratch it off with a fingernail.

44man

12-26-2013, 08:53 AM

OK, did some thinking!!!! What primer? Case tension? Is the boolit moved out before ignition from the primer or have the last two rounds had the boolits move from recoil--not much there BUT!
That will raise pressures. Next time you shoot, shoot four and look at the last two.
Do NOT use mag primers.
Do not anneal revolver brass, makes boolit movement worse. Slippery lube makes it worse.
I am shooting some brass I bought in the early 80's, figure they have been loaded 45 times now.
Do you get fliers at 50 yards? The 29 can do 1" down to 1/2" at 50 for six shots. If you always have some out, look closer at boolit movement.

Wayne Dobbs

12-26-2013, 11:18 AM

Are you sure you used Unique and not something faster in a Unique can? Are you sure your scale was calibrated and zeroed when you adjusted the powder measure? While everybody has been addressing chamber cleanliness, etc., I'm wondering if you set up an unintentional high pressure situation.

kevmc

12-26-2013, 11:28 AM

Loads were VERY mild......from the OP, so.....

kevmc

12-26-2013, 11:31 AM

Take the two cases that were sticky and try them in all 6 chambers (unsized).....same feel??
Same with the other fired cases that weren't stuck.......same feel??

waco

12-26-2013, 02:07 PM

I'll try that tonight when I get home.

Wayne Dobbs

12-26-2013, 07:23 PM

Loads were VERY mild......from the OP, so.....

I realize the quoted load was very mild in a .44 Mag, but I was wondering if somehow there had been a powder substitution without realizing it or if there had been a larger than realized charge weight, hence the questions about those two issues.

waco

12-26-2013, 10:50 PM

I'm still not sure what to think. The two pieces of brass that "stuck" wouldn't fit back all the way into any of the cylinders. The powder WAS Unique, not something that got mixed up. I check about every 15-20 rounds for powder weight, and I always zero my scales before each use. Thanks for all the suggestions. I pitched the two pieces of questionable brass, and I'll see what happens next time out.

bhn22

12-26-2013, 11:50 PM

Clean the chambers really well, make sure you remove any carbon buildup at the ball socket area, and try again.

Dan Cash

12-26-2013, 11:52 PM

I hate to say it but if I were to bet, you have a bulged chamber/chambers. Look carefully at your chambers against a good light and check the area under the cylinder bolt recess. Look for a shadow or impression and remember that it may be very faint. It does not take much to require a visit to Smith & Wesson.

Fernando

12-27-2013, 06:22 AM

Case length?

Tatume

12-27-2013, 08:41 AM

Multigunner

12-27-2013, 08:43 AM

I polished out the chambers of a .357 over under derringer once. The owner had found out the hard way that just because a pistol is chambered for a magnum cartridge is no guarantee that its really up to those pressures. The chambers had jugged to the point that it took mallet blows on a steel rod to eject the empties. After polishing the chambers with 1000 grit silicon carbide paper on a dowel rod the derringer would work fine with .38 Special rounds. The chambers were un commonly tight to begin with so the polishing did not result in a grossly over sized chamber, which is something I was concerned might happen.

I don't think this cylinder is in that bad a shape. Could be some defect in the cartridge cases.
If this happens again I'd suspect unequal heat treatment of the cylinder. That can cause one or two chambers to jug even with reasonable pressures while the other chambers do not. I have seen this situation with much older revolvers.

Any signs of cold flowing at the case heads?

44man

12-27-2013, 08:54 AM

Take the two cases that were sticky and try them in all 6 chambers (unsized).....same feel??
Same with the other fired cases that weren't stuck.......same feel??
Won't tell you much, a change in pressure affects the case no matter what chamber it was shot from.
It does tell you something happened only with that round.

bosterr

12-27-2013, 10:02 AM

"I check about every 15-20 rounds for powder weight" tells me that you're using a measure. I stopped using Unique years ago because of inconsistant weight in MY measure. Possible powder log jamming in your measure?

KCSO

12-27-2013, 10:34 AM

Were they by chance 44 special BALOON head? The baloon head cases expand below where they sizing die reaches and they stick right near the base. Doesn't take much of a load to stick them either as they expand over time and don't get sized down. I like to sort off all the baloons to the side as they are suspect to start with.

Lloyd Smale

12-27-2013, 04:43 PM

had the same thing happen with my montado in 45 colt. I was shooting 9 grains of unique and it felt a bit stiff but i didnt pay much attention as the other gun i was shooting that day was one of my 500 linebaughs. Went to eject the brass and had to pound two of them out. Went back home and looked and it was defineately a can of unique next to the press i was loading on. Scratched my head until i dumped some powder out of that can and found what looked to be bullseye mix in with it. I think what happend is i somehow dumped a powder measure full of bullseye in my unique jug. Bulged both cylinders and i had to pay to have ruger fit another cylinder to it. Im usually very careful and if someone would have asked me at the range if i possibly did that i would have laughed at them. I probably would have gotten away with it if i was shooting a large framed blackhawk or redhawk but the montado just isnt beefy enough and it would have had the same result if i would have shot them in a N frame.

waco

12-27-2013, 05:19 PM

I don't own any ballon head brass.
I didn't think to measure the length of the brass. I'll look tonight.
All my powder stays out in the shop. I only bring in what I am using at the time. There is only ever one can of powder at a time in the reloading room, then it's poured back into the jug and back out to the shop.
Thanks for all the replies. I might get to do some shooting this weekend.
Oh yeah.... Those six shots I fired all went over the Chrony. I'll check my notes tonight and see what the speeds were.

littlejack

12-27-2013, 05:27 PM

OOPS!
Thanks for sharing that Lloyd. Most folks would not have "told on themselves". Thanks for the lesson in humility sir.
It goes to show, that NONE of us are exempt from making mistakes, me included.
I try to only have one powder on my bench, for the particular caliber/cartridge I am loading.
I have to keep on reminding myself: BE CAREFUL. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING. DON'T GET DISTRACTED.
Regards
Jack
P.S. Be careful. Pay attention to what you are doing. Don't get distracted.

sagamore-one

12-27-2013, 06:01 PM

Dan Cash

12-27-2013, 06:34 PM

I have a model 29 that did basically the same thing. Found out I had two "blown" chambers
, with enlargement where the cylinder notch is located. Difficult to see in the chamber, but the brass has a high spot in the shape of the notch on the offending cylinders.
Mine required a trip back to S&W for fitting of a new cylinder which was money well spent.

I have a 25-5 nickel at S&W now awaiting a new cylinder. 8 grain of Unique under a 240 bullet became something else; not a lot else but enough to make a .460 or .465 out one chamber. S&W will take 6 monthe to fix it an a good chunk of my money so I hope it is worth it.

waco

12-28-2013, 02:35 PM

The six shots fired were as follows
922
898
882
897
893
934

roysha

12-28-2013, 04:51 PM

Just a thought. Is this by any chance a Bangor Punta era gun? Several years ago, more that I really want to admit to, a group of us (5 regulars and an occasional 6 fellow joined in) were all shooting 629s. All using the 429421 bullet and 10 gr. Unique. Cases were virtually every brand available. Primers were WIN or CCI. Three of the guns developed bulged charge holes and it happened very gradually. I was a dealer at the time and contacted S&W about the situation. They repaired all three free of charge. Although they did not, of course, admit it, I suspect since they repaired them free, no question asked, that there was either a material or a heat treatment issue which they became aware of and chose to try to keep quiet. Anyway, since that time I have put well over 15,000 rounds through that pistol, now retired, and working on the next one. The symptoms you are experiencing is exactly what we experienced. Perhaps the problem crossed over to the 29 also.

Oh, for what its worth, I've never had a problem of any sort metering Unique.

waco

12-28-2013, 09:30 PM

Is this by any chance a Bangor Punta era gun?
Not sure how I would tell?......
Serial number is BS82xxx

Artful

12-29-2013, 01:25 AM

During 1965 Smith & Wesson introduced Model 60, an all stainless steel revolver. Late that year, the firm's era of independence came to an end with its acquisition by Bangor Punta Alegre Sugar Corp., a conglomerate based in Bangor, Maine, with operations in railroads, textiles, foundry equipment, sewage disposal systems, yacht manufacturing, commercial finance, grain elevators, and other areas. Bangor Punta paid about $22.6 million to gain control of Smith & Wesson. In January 1984 Santa Monica, California-based Lear Siegler Corporation acquired Bangor Punta, giving Smith & Wesson a new parent. Under the direction of Lear Siegler, whose primary holdings were in the manufacture of aerospace and automotive parts and systems, Smith & Wesson divested numerous noncore areas in order to concentrate on its main areas of strength: making and selling handguns, handcuffs, and police Identi-Kits.

If you have the box it will be printed on it. Some guns on the S&W engraving have it on the gun.

S&W date range info
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=356710