S&W 686+ vs 586

[taiden]

Hey guys, first post here. Been using the information here to reload 9mm, no casting yet! My first centerfire was an M&P Shield. I bought it because I liked it, and quickly realized it doesn't fit my needs at all! I don't carry, I just plink and reload. So the search for a 38/357 revolver began. I look forward to not having to dig in the snow for my empties.

I found three revolvers at local shops, I will detail them below including the trade in value of my Shield. As an engineering student, I reach "analysis paralysis" pretty quick, I'm hoping for a tie breaker. They are all K/L frames.


S&W Model 19
Originally 8", but chopped down to 4", recrowned and sight relocated
Nickle plated, 7/10 condition
Pinned barrel
Flat butt, wood
Red dot fiber sight
Cylinder opens rough, possible loose extractor
$300 trade in on the Shield
$429 price

S&W Model 586
4" Barrel
Flat butt, wood
Blued, 10/10 barely used
$300 trade in on the Shield
$699 price


S&W 686+
4" Barrel
7 round cylinder
Round butt, rubber
Stainless, 10/10 brand new
$240 trade in on the Shield
$759 price




Now... here's the thing. The Model 19 is nice but I hate the finish and flat butt. The 596 is incredible but it has the flat butt. The 696 is great but no wood and I prefer blued.

The nickle plating is almost a dealbreaker, flat butt is almost a dealbreaker, the stainless is almost a dealbreaker.
The red dot and price is great, the bluing is awesome, and the grip ergonomics and 7 shot capacity is awesome.

Can anyone guide me here? :)

[krit29-2]

ok the 586 was discontinued in 1999.. and is getting kinda collectable in it's self, so that would be my choice..
the 19 nickel, already messed with collectors value shot.. known for a "weak" forcing cone.. check for crack.
the 686 + nice gun still in production,, would be great, but then again..
if your planning on reloading for 9mm , why not a 9mm revolver? Smith had the 547, roundbutt, blued, 3 inch barrel
ruger also has a 9mm revolvers, the Blackhawk .357 could be had with a spare 9mm cylinder also the gp100 could be had in 9mm too... tauris is also another one with a 9mm revolver out there..
just thinking out loud here....

[taiden]

I have no problems retooling for 357. The 9mm revolver would be neat, but I'm not sure how I feel about moonclips. I also plan on getting a levergun after, and 357 seems like a good idea for that. :)

[dilly]

Personally I like stainless but you have got to get the gun you like. Leet me phrase it this way, $400 out the door for three 586 vs $520 for the 686 with your trade value. In my opinion the 586 wins this time.

You may also be able to find grips that appeal more than the stock grips, but maybe not.

[bhn22]

I'm confused. Your header lists 686+ & 586, but your text indicates they are 696 & 596. I'm assuming you mean 686 & 586.

Skip the Model 19, it's a heartbreaker in progress. It's a much weaker gun that the L frame 586 & 686s, and unless it was replated when the barrel was clipped, could start flaking where it was cut. It would really be a find if it were all original. As you know, the 686 is a stainless 586, and if the timing is okay, I'd choose the 686+. However, the early guns had some timing issues, my first 686+ went back to the factory for a refit. It left the day after I bought it. I personally prefer blued guns, and the 586 would be my choice of the three. By "flat butt", are you referring to a square butt? Many aftermarket grips for round butt guns are designed to return the gun to square butt contours. Plain round butt grips make the guns point low for me. That's entirely a matter of personal preference. The only real winner is the 586 in this race.

[FergusonTO35]

Where are you shopping? Those prices are very high by my experience, especially for the modified 19. The Shield is a hot commodity right now. I would advise finding someone who would make you an even trade for a nice .357 revolver. Unless you really want a Smith the Ruger GP-100 is a great .357 and generally alot cheaper.

[Lefty SRH]

I really like my 686, personally my next purchase would be the 586.

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, The model 19 has been chopped and is nickel plated, It is completely out of the running. Even as a 38 Special only gun I would run away from that one.
The 686 + is a good gun but at $120.00 more (trade value and base price) that 7th round is way too expensive. Not to mention that speed loaders become a huge problem for the 7 round cylinder. Just not worth it to me and 6 rounds in the gun is plenty.

The 586 is long out of production but is a solid gun. The 4" barrel puts it squarely in the "do it all" revolver category. The S&W L-frame .357s are great guns, strong, not too big, not too heavy, use K-frame grips, did I mention strong?

Of those three - the 586 would be my choice. The 686+ would be a possible if stainless steel were important but I don't care for that odd-ball 7 shot cylinder. The butchered model 19 is totally out of the running. By the way, non-factory nickel plating should ALWAYS cause alarm bells to go off. Nickel plating can hide a world of sins and usually does.

[taiden]

Thanks all for replies. I fixed the model numbers in my post. The Shield does seem to be a hot commodity, but around here each shop has at least three in each flavor. I don't feel comfortable selling online because I'm not sure how the FFL transfer thing works. Should I post it up here, or are there other better places? (I have a LOT of experience with ecommerce, but the firearm world is completely new to me.)

I checked out an SP101 and much preferred the Smiths. I love me some Rugers, I wanted to like the SP101. (My 22/45 was awesome and my 10/22 TD still is!)

I'm looking at local gun shops because that's what I know. I'm wary of the online thing.

The 586 is the lock model, for what it's worth. I think they rereleased it recently, and this is one of those models.

So can the square/flat butt grip be changed out to something with the curved butt contours? That rubber curved butt feels really nice in my hand. Seems a lot thicker. The square butt feels really cramped. When I pull the trigger it almost feels like I'm making a tight OK sign with my hand.

[Petrol & Powder]

Square butt vs. round butt will fill an entire new thread! If you have a round butt, the grips can be changed to mimic a square butt, in fact that's what S&W does now. I like round butt for a carry gun just because they conceal a tad bit better. Some people really prefer the sq. butt for target work. It's a personal thing. Some gunsmith's will grind a sq. butt to a round butt profile (only with a smooth back strap frame) but that's getting rather severe for something that I can live with.
Even with that stupid lock, I'd still go with the 586 out of the three choices you provided.
I'll second the advice about the GP-100. The GP is an outstanding gun and IMHO better than the Smith's in terms of strength and value. The GP's shoot very well, often better than folks give them credit for. The Ruger is strong, accurate, durable and almost always cheaper! The triggers can be made as good, if not way better, than the new Smith's and almost as good as the old Smith's. Don't overlook the GP-100.
My advice is to TAKE YOUR TIME and buy what YOU want. Far too often I see people buy what someone else wants to sell them rather than what they want to obtain. Don't be impulsive just because of what's in the display case, decide what you are looking for BEFORE you start shopping and you'll never experience "buyer's remorse".

Good Luck

[taiden]

Thanks Petrol & Powder.

I originally was looking for a 3" j-frame, but the K/L's just fit my bear paws so much more. I'm so used to shooting 22 pistols, that the full size pistols turned me off at first. I think that's why I ended up with the Shield, plus, as you say, impulse buy.

I'll take a good hard look at the GP-100.

[Lefty SRH]

The GP100 is another very good choice. I carry mine a lot and used to compete with it. Its a work horse.

[dg31872]

I have the 686+ in 6" and really like it. I've shot the other two, but the 686+ would be my choice.

[taiden]

I have the 686+ in 6" and really like it. I've shot the other two, but the 686+ would be my choice.

Could you elaborate why? I'm still going back and forth over the 586 vs 686. Seems I can get 7 round speedloaders on Amazon for about $9 a pop.

[FergusonTO35]

You needn't be leery of selling a gun online. The buyer will have to receive it through a dealer on their end. First find a dealer n your area who is willing to ship the gun to another dealer for you. Most dealers here will do it for shipping cost plus a fee. Then list your gun for sale somewhere. I would advise trying the want to sell ads here and on other forums first. Make the deal with the buyer and make sure that you or your dealer get a copy of the FFL on his end. He pays you, your dealer ships the gun to his dealer, that's all there is to it!

[taiden]

I'm thinking I'll go for the 686+ (if I don't prefer the GP100) and sell the Shield online. It's going to happen eventually, now seems like the best time.

[rintinglen]

The 686 would be my choice. I like the 7 shot capability, there are speed loaders available, and the L frame smith is a favorite of mine, much stronger than the 19 and generally has a better trigger than the Ruger GP 100. All that said, my 4 inch 357's are a Colt Python and a S&W M-66.

[sleeper1428]

I have both a 6" S&W 686 and a 4" Ruger GP-100 and find them both to be superb revolvers, capable of handling full power loads all day long without beating my hand to pieces. As I've grown older - I'm now pushing 76 real hard - I've tended to drop down to less than full power loads just so I can last a longer time at the range and both wheel guns are handling the reduced loads just fine. I have Bushnell red dot sights, mounted on Weigand mounts, on both handguns and have been very pleased with these sights. So based on my experience, I don't think you would be sorry with either of these fine revolvers.

sleeper1428

[sghart3578]

Go with the 586. I know it is a personal thing but revolvers should be blue with walnut grips.

[Petrol & Powder]

The 686 would be my choice. I like the 7 shot capability, there are speed loaders available, and the L frame smith is a favorite of mine, much stronger than the 19 and generally has a better trigger than the Ruger GP 100. All that said, my 4 inch 357's are a Colt Python and a S&W M-66.
Yes, HKS makes speedloaders for 7 shot L-frames. My earlier post regarding speedloaders was a bit too specific to my own preference for Safariland speedloaders. Having settled on the Safariland type, accumulated a supply of Safariland loaders and becoming accustomed to that type, change is not welcome for me. YMMV.
As for the trigger on a GP-100, again that's personal preference but the factory trigger action on a Ruger is far from horrible and can made very smooth.
Rugers tend to be unfairly relegated to second place when compared to S&W. I own, shoot and have worked on both S&W and Rugers. They're both good platforms but there always seems to be some prejudice and brand loyalty at play when comparing the two.

[Frosty Boolit]

I would get the 586. I just bought a M19, It is awesome but I would make sure I had a L frame first, they are workhorses and the full underlug really soaks up some recoil. The 7 shot cylinder for me turned out to be a pain in the nuggets because every time I wanted to shoot pins at a match I had to either had to make sure i closed the cylinder on the empty chamber or load it full and count shots. This also a reason I never tried it for PPC. There really isnt any reason you would need an extra round for plinking. I sold the 686 plus in favor of a 686. FWIW, I sold it for $550 and paid $550 for the M19 in it's very minty condition.

[FishingFool]

Neither. Get a 44 Mag.

Small calibers make you weak.

[ShinyPartsUp]

I have a S&W J frame 1 7/8 inch airweight with factory trigger job, GP100 blued 4 inch and two weeks ago picked up a 686+ 3 inch in stainless. Forget the model 19 for a workhorse. I have worked up several loads from mild to wild for the GP100 and it keeps on rolling after several thousand rounds down the pipe -- it is a tank. Trigger is not as nice as a Smith, but I can still hit the small target consistently with it time after time, and a trigger job is in it's near future. I like the looks of Blued revolvers, but Stainless grows on you and can be mildly refinished/repaired easier without losing value. I LOVE the trigger on my 3 inch 686+ out of the box. It is the Talo version and I picked it up in a private transaction for 6 bills with speed loaders. I have shot Many many .38 and .357 pistols from model 10's to 586's, to cheap **** like Charter Arms that don't even lock up. You can't go wrong with a S&W generally, or the GP100. I love the .357 round as a do-most cartridge when hand loaded for the job at hand. That extra round in the 686+ is nice -- I reload the gun a tad less often at the range and have more fun shooting. My advice is find the best deal you can and do it before it goes away -- because sooner or later you will own more than one wheelgun anyway.

[FergusonTO35]

I prefer Ruger revolvers myself but there just isn't as much variety to choose from as S&W. As much as I like the GP-100 it is way overkill for my favorite cartridge, .38 Special +P. My S&W 10-5 and unfortunately discontinued Ruger Service Six are perfect for it.

[taiden]

Thank you all for the thoughtful posts. 586 vs 686+ seem to be neck and neck based on what you guys are saying.

I'm wondering if I should grab the 686+ because we often plink in snow with no good benches or tables etc. Last time we went, my Shield got soaking wet.

Will the stainless be better or worse (or the same) for cast boolits? I'd like to get into casting this spring.

Have a wonderful Christmas, and for those in the upper states, drive safe. :)

[6bg6ga]

The wife has the 686-6 in stainless and it a great gun. Better in my mind than the 586.

[Lefty SRH]

Boy all this talk makes me want to find a 586 now!

[Tatume]

If a dealer offered me different trade-in values depending on what I bought, I would be very uncomfortable with that dealer. I've had car dealers do that with me, and I walked off the lot. It tells me the dealer is not being honest with me.

As far as the choice of revolvers goes, I was shooting my six-shot Model 686 yesterday. It is wonderful. It is very accurate and has an excellent trigger. Review this thread for other opinions on the Model 686.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?213641-Most-accurate-centerfire-double-action-revolver

[taiden]

The difference in trade in has to do with two different gun shops. They both seem very professional and fair. :)

[Petrol & Powder]

As to stainless steel and cast boolits, it's a non issue. As to stainless steel and snow, rain, sweat and humidity - stainless is a huge advantage. As firearm finishes go, bluing is not that tough. Carbon steel and blued finishes have been around for a long time and if carefully maintained, bluing can hold up reasonably well. The two caveats are, carefully maintained and reasonably well. Stainless guns must be maintained too but they are much more forgiving to neglect and are generally tougher.

[Forrest r]

I wouldn't get any of them for that kind of $$$$$.

The 19 has been played with too much.
They're asking top dollar for the 586 & the trade isn't bad, but if you want a round butt then get what you want.
The $759 & $240 trade-in is $100+ high.

Your shield should be easily worth $325, you should have no problems selling it for that @ any gunshow or on line. For around $700 you can buy a nib 586 without the lock & sell the box/paperwork/cleaning kit for $35. The nib 686+'s are selling for around $730.

You'd be better off selling your shield on-line for $325, buying a new 686+ for $730 & paying the $20 shipping & the $25/$30 your ffl charges to do the paperwork. In the end you'll have your 686+, made $85 more off your shield, saved $30 on the price of the 686+ locally (cover ffl fee) & saved $50 on taxes ($30 after paying shipping). That's a $115 dollar swing in your favor for a nib 686+.

[MarkP]

Stainless steel is much easier to touch up as compared to blued finish.

[Rustyleee]

Taiden, as an engineering student you really owe it to yourself to take a close look at the GP-100. As much as I like S&Ws I'd have to admit the Ruger is a vast improvement. There is more wall thickness in the cylinder of a Ruger than there is in even of an "N" frame S&W.
If you can't find a revolver you like close by, try some other gunshops, or even a gunshow till you make up your mind.

[4rdwhln]

I flat out love my 686. It has the 6 inch barrel and shoots nice cast groups at 50 yards. It is impervious to any weather you might encounter.It has a very good and fast double action trigger pull. And the seventh shot always surprises other folks when I let them shoot it at the range. I know in the day of 20 round magazines 7 shoots doesn't seem like much but at one time it was the game changer. I would agree that it takes some work to get used to the speed loaders as well. Mine are made of rubber and seem to work. All tho for social work I would rather have the 45 at hand or a rifle. Merry Christmas

[dragon813gt]

I'm biased :)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Firearms/8FE93859-92A7-43DC-9124-4A76490DAF26-13533-0000095D41B1B15F-1.jpg

There has been some misinformation posted. The 586 is in production again. It's under the classic line and is what mine is. The price quoted by the LGS is pretty much MSRP. When I've seen them by me they are in the same price range. There are no price breaks on them.

I like stainless guns. But not revolvers for some reason. I really should because I live in a really humid area. But blued w/ wood grips is where it's at. Mine has only seen cast and shoots way better than I'm capable of.

[taiden]

So beautiful. But I'm torn between that and this... :D

91560

[daniel lawecki]

+1 For the 586 there was a write up in I think Shooting Times about the reitroduction of the 586. I have a Gp100 but I akso wold like another Smith to go along with my other 3.

[taiden]

Alright ladies and gents, the final decision was a six inch 686P. The Ruger GP100 won over the S&W in a lot of departments. The final decision was very difficult. I chose the one that turned me on the most. Thanks all for the help.

Shameless plug, pictured is a titanium pen prototype that I spent a lot of time on... going to market in a few weeks! Bolt action / takedown inspired. I'm very excited.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23865811/Photos/firearms/686P/686P-1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23865811/Photos/firearms/686P/686P-2.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23865811/Photos/firearms/686P/686P-3.jpg

[9.3X62AL]

Good choice, sir. I adore my 686 x 4" (6-shot), I'm sure you'll feel the same way about this example.

[taiden]

It was tough to pick between six inch and four inch. They were both sitting on the counter and I just picked the first one I pointed to. I think the six inch was the one to get, as I will probably never carry it. The balance between the two was very similar, with the four incher pointing a lot faster.

If I want a carry revolver, I'll snag a J frame. :)

[ShinyPartsUp]

Very smart example. If it is a range gun, the extra barrel length will be appreciated by you. I can't imagine you will be disappointed. The pen looks interesting! Give some details when it is in production -- I'd like to hear more.

Since a few others showed theirs, I'm going to be a proud owner and flash mine (stock photo) in 3 inches:
91664

And my personal 4 inch GP100 workhorse with maple inserts:
91668
91669

[beezapilot]

For what it is worth, of the choices I vote the 586. You mentioned a 3" J-frame... I have a 60-4, .38 with a 3" barrel and target sights, my absolute favorite revolver.

[detox]

Smith's are more difficult to find in my area than Rugers...good find. Here is my 686 with factory long range Silhouette front sight. Leupold rings and 2 power scope installed for group testing. Gun (1997 vintage) is not broken in yet.

Be sure to keep your strain screw tight. Mine backed out 1/4 turn and gun would misfire. Strain screw adds tension to hammer spring (strain screw is located on front of steel grip under rubber grip). Keep gun well lubed for long service life...spray on Remington oil works better than nothing.

[detox]

Check out this bad boy.

[taiden]

Nice setup detox, I think I'll have to rig up a scope setup this spring for load testing. :)

My only concern is that if I want to shoot competitions, the 7 round cylinder will be more of a burden than a blessing. I've heard some guys online ask if they can change their cylinders over to the 6 round type for certain matches.

[detox]

Nice setup detox, I think I'll have to rig up a scope setup this spring for load testing. :)

My only concern is that if I want to shoot competitions, the 7 round cylinder will be more of a burden than a blessing. I've heard some guys online ask if they can change their cylinders over to the 6 round type for certain matches.

Your 7 shot could be more accurate than my 6 shot. Nothing wrong with a seven shot if it shoots good. I am sure the 7 shot cylinder is nearly just as strong as a 6.

[detox]

Hornaday jacketed XTP bullets are very accurate while breaking it in. Next try cast and compair.

[9.3X62AL]

That empty charge hole will stick out like an outhouse in the fog. It will be next-to-zero effort to line the empty hole up at 12 o'clock if required by some random rule. The HKS 7-round speedloaders work fine with one lobe left empty, also. When I bought the 686 (1990), there were no 7-round 686s. Had they existed at that time, I likely would have opted for the "extra" round.

I carry the 686 x 4" extensively. It is my back-country sideiron, and goes along on most of my bird hunts or varmint strafings. I long ago lost count of the jackrabbits and other varmints it has collected Your 6" would make for a better hunting or target tool, but the 4" does all right too. If another 6" D/A 357 ever gets the nod, a 686/7-shooter or GP-100 will have quite an arm-rassle over the position.

[detox]

Here you go:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/6335

[FergusonTO35]

I think you made a good choice. I would seriously look at the 686 if S&W offered a 4-5" half lug version. If you traded in the Shield I hope you got at least $300.00 for it.

[taiden]

I'll be selling the Shield private party. I haven't decided how I want to do that yet. Gun Broker? Forums? Not sure...

If I could have had this 686 in 5", I would have been all over it. There would have been no question in my mind at that point.

[taiden]

Here's a photo of the speedloader setup block I made today. The size ratios for the block match the sizing ratios of the 686P cylinder. It holds 49 rounds and my speedloader. Perfect!

If anyone wants one, I'd be glad to trade it for any 357 reloading supplies, esp boolits and brass. :)

91731

[Petrol & Powder]

Nice Work!

[taiden]

Shot the 686P today. Boy is that thing fun to shoot! 38 special is really a great plinking round, and the 357 was pretty fun as well. Absolutely worth the money, although it was quite a bit of money. Time to go buy some dies!

[Petrol & Powder]

There is a huge body of knowledge surrounding the 38 Special / .357 magnum cartridges and a lot of it is available from members of this forum. I've been shooting & reloading for decades and the 38 Special remains near the top of my list of favorites. The 38 Special cartridge is versatile, inexpensive, accurate and most of all, Downright Fun! That 686 is certainly capable of handling all the .357 magnum rounds you will care to shoot but in my opinion, the real fun comes with a coffee can full of wadcutters and some friends at a range.

[FergusonTO35]

Talden, my favorite revolver load of all is a .38 Special case with 5.8 grains of Accurate #5 under a 158 lead flat point and any small pistol primer. It has shot well in ever .38 or .357 I've ever owned and clocks a consistent 875 fps out of my S&W 10-5 with 4" barrel, should go around 925 in your 6" tube. This is +P performance but is standard pressure according to the data.

I would advise you to offer the Shield for sale in the want to sell forum here. You can sell it and not have to set up an auction account or pay fees.

[taiden]

I would gladly do so, but I have to wait an additional two weeks before I can make any classifieds listings. :( Do you reckon it's worth asking a mod to lift the requirement?

My lovely girlfriend went shooting with me today and now she wants a Ruger SR22. I might have to get a matching one if she does, I've been eying one for a while, selling the Shield would facilitate that.

[taiden]

As for the load, thank you. I think I'll be using a 158 SWC, but I'm not loyal to that at all... Im not too familiar with bullet manufacturers, and this seems like it's pretty easy to get.

[Petrol & Powder]

If I had to have only one bullet for a 38/357 it would be the 158 SWC. The load listed above would probably work just fine with a RFP or a SWC.
As for SR22, I like Ruger products and the SR22 is a neat pistol but I'd recommend a Mark III (or if you can find one, a Mark II)over the SR22. The Ruger Standard Pistol, Mark II and Mark III models are one of the best target .22's for the money, IMHO.
They are durable, accurate, reliable and simple.

[taiden]

I had a 22/45 for a while, but much prefer my roommates Mark III standard. I'd love to find a Mark II standard, oh yes I would. :)

[Shiloh]

My bias runs to the 686.
I always wanted one and could never find one when I was cash flush. I was always looking for a very nice used one.

Shiloh

[FergusonTO35]

I use the Lee 358-158-RF mostly. It has a nice big ogive and easily accepts a plain base gas check if you want to get serious with it. My Marlin 1894C likes 'em with a gas check and 14 grains of Hodgdon 110. I see no reason why an SWC wouldn't work just as well though. It wouldn't hurt to ask a mod to give you the ability to post in the for sale section, or you could just try to find a local buyer for the next two weeks. Feel free to ask me anything about loading the .38 and .357. They are the first cartridges I ever loaded and still my favorites!

[9.3X62AL]

I imagine that there are very few folks that belong here that don't cast for and reload for the 38 Special and/or 357 Magnum. It is Everyman's Cartridge, much like the 30-30 WCF and 30-06.

[FergusonTO35]

Yep, love that .30 WCF too! Have more long guns in it than any other caliber.

[Clay M]

I have the 686,but if I were to buy today I would get the GP100.I like the way the GP100 locks on the crane just like the Redhawk.I don't like the glory hole on the Smiths.For that reason I probably won't buy another Smith.

[MtGun44]

I am truly amazed that folks freak out about that silly little safety lock thingie.
A few of my S&Ws have it, most do not, so what? Irrelevant, IMO.

I certainly wouldn't deny myself the joy of a new Smith and Wesson over it.
I would presume that with a bit of effort one could just remove the offending
bit and move on with life.

Bill

[james6600]

First let me say on your trade in you will lose $100+ than if you sold it out right, little less if you sell it on consignment. Second, a lot of but not all replies have been what the poster has and then they recommend what they want not what you need (it's human nature). Third money is an issue or you would just buy what you want. Now with that said start crunching the numbers, a good majority considers S&W to be the Cadillac of revolvers and you are going to pay for that up front and you wont receive a return untill you sell it, that is if you keep it in extremely good condition and don,t trade it in for that $100+ loss. Smiths are good guns but they still have problems, there's a brand new 686 in my LGS I wanted until I picked it up and started cycling it single action and after I hit the third chamber that wouldn't lock up without further rotational assistance I knew this was not the gun for my wife who is a new shooter. I got her a used mdl 19-4 (theres pics in another post), yes the forcing cones are a little weak at the 6 oclock position but if you load 158gr and higher bullets and use the new reloading data where SAMMI has dropped the pressure rating on 357 it's a non issue. Now with my experience and your stated position and intended use I would recommend a GP100 4" or 6" with adjustable sights that you can pick up brand new for $500-599 depending on the store. Now as far as Ruger problems generally speaking, the chamber throats may be a little tight and the barrel may be torqued a little tight which constricts the threaded part of the bore. These are common but not absolutes and if this is a problem it can be remedied by rapid fire to heat cycle the gun or fire lapping but GP100's seem to be in good shape unlike the old mdl Blackhawks. Now if you decide you want a single action I would recommend a Blackhawk or better yet a Blackhawk convertible (they are cheaper yet) since you already have the 9mm components. Now for reloading 357, components are scarce right now, they can be had but you have to look for them and buy them quick. The stuff that is generally in stock are the components for the light weight snubbies which you stated plinking so that may be fine for your needs. The moral of the story is buy what you like or want you will be happier and the quirks of that particular firearm won't bother you so much as they are all good guns. James

[Clay M]

It is not so much the hole as it is that Smith voluntarily did it.I don't like cross bar safety's on my Marlins or slide safety's on my Winchesters either.

[dragon813gt]

It is not so much the hole as it is that Smith voluntarily did it.I don't like cross bar safety's on my Marlins or slide safety's on my Winchesters either.

This is my take on it as well. But at the same time I have no problems w/ Marlins w/ safeties. Or Smiths w/ the internal locks. It's a simple operation to remove the lock if one wanted to do so. It's supposed to improve the trigger pull. But I see no reason to do so. What I don't like about them is how they look. One w/out the lock just looks better.

[9.3X62AL]

Mtn Gun, I'm a throwback. Antedeluvian. Unreconstructed. I don't care much for the Glory Holes on the newest line of S&W wheelguns, and like the MIM internal components even less. I've fired several of these examples since they emerged from Springfield, and handled several more--and none have crumbled in my hands or shed parts while being handled, and the firing was pleasant, accurate, and unsurprising. But I have yet to cough up any folding money to lodge one in my safe. It may take a 6" re-intro'ed Model 616 in 327 Federal to separate me from The Legal Tender. Hint, hint.

[Clay M]

I have enough pre glory hole Smiths that I won't be deprived.

[Jeff82]

I'll throw in a couple of thoughts.

If you're looking for a 357 I'd handle 586/686, GP100 and an S&W Model 27. Personally, I don't like the feel of any of them, but that's just a matter of preference. The Ruger Blackhawk with slightly fatter grips is more pleasant handling than the above. Again, personal preference. The Model 19 handles very comfortably and naturally, and would be my choice of the ones you're considering, but as already mentioned I have my doubts about it's ability to handle a heavy diet of 0.357 loads. The old Ruger Security Six was an excellent 357 alternative, comparable to the Model 19 in size.

If you're not fixed on shooting 357, you might consider a current production K-frame Model 10 or Model 67. 38-Special is out of fashion, but there's something about a classic S&W K-frame that can't be beat.

I have a current production Model 36 "Classic" and really like it. The hair trigger single action shoots dead on at 25 yards and the very heavy double-action gives quite manageable accuracy at 50-feet. S&W can't seem to make wood grips to save their life. That would be my only complaint. That, and I don't think the blueing is particularly rich looking.

Anyway, my suggestion would be to find the ergonomics you like best and go from there.

[John Allen]

The 586 would be my choice. I have to agree with the above post about the GP100 I think for the dollar they are about bulletproof.

[MtGun44]

Al,

I understand entirely!

I have a number of both kinds of Smiths, the only difference that I can see is that the MIM parts guns
are more consistently smooth and nice on the double and single actions. I own ONLY smooth, nice
pre-MIM Smiths, and have handled a number of really unpleasant Smiths, primarily from the Lear-Sigler
era that were very badly fitted. Puts me of a mind of the "little girl with a curl in the middle of her
forehead" - "when she was good she was very, very good, but when she was bad, she was horrid"
Haven't seen a "horrid" MIM'd Smith, but have seen a few of the older ones.

I'd rather not have the hole, much like the silly crossbolts on the Marlins and Wins, but if I can't get
one without it, I'll put up with it. They are actually much less obtrusive than the levergun safeties.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

I'd rather not have the hole, much like the silly crossbolts on the Marlins and Wins, but if I can't get
one without it, I'll put up with it. They are actually much less obtrusive than the levergun safeties.

True enough. I make do with the Winchester and Marlin superfluousnesses, and have enough of the old-series Colts and S&Ws on hand that there isn't (yet) a need to obtain a glory-hole example. It will likely happen, and in Model (6)29 or (6)25 x 4". Maybe.

[Budda]

I like em blued, stainless, nickeled or parkerized.

But wheel guns are my fave!

.38/.357 best plinker ever!!