Need advice building 1911

[WARD O]

I have a pre series 70 Colt 38 super slide, barrel, spring, bushing, ejector, guide rod, etc etc - all the upper parts for the gun including the original box and several mags and some ammo but no frame and related parts. All in near new condition. For several years I have been thinking I should buy the needed parts and assemble the darn thing! Being a revolver person at heart I'm a little uncertain as to how to proceed.

I don't think that the assembly work is an issue, just want to know more about how to determine quality parts that I should be looking for and where should I go to purchase them. I want something decent when finished. Anyone want to offer any suggestions?

If you want to know the rest of the story, over 30 years ago the complete gun was bought very cheaply and when my 38 ACP and 38 Super ammo supply dwindled, it was converted to 45 and then I was talked out of it in a trade - the spare parts have been hiding in my closet for that long.....

Merry Christmas to all

and thank you
ward

[bhn22]

Have you done action work on a 1911 before? There are specialized tools that come in handy. Even "drop in" action kits often require fitting. That said out loud, I usually buy Wilson or Ed Brown components. I've discovered that the cheap parts are usually awful, and that spending a few extra bucks is usually much more in the long term. 1911s pretty much always require hand fitting somewhere. For a frame, look at Caspian or Foster Ind. first. You'll probably want a forged frame, not a cheapie cast one for longevity. Plan B could be to simply buy a sad used 1911 and try simply swapping the top end, and see if everything works.

[c1skout]

Sarco might be worth a look, they often list frames and "builders kits".

[dsbock]

I'll second the Caspian frames. Very good quality. I also agree that Wilson, Ed Brown, or any other "name" parts are the way to go.

That's the route I went when I built my steel frame Commander.

Look at the Brownells (http://www.brownells.com/) website for part ideas.

Good luck and be sure to post pictures when you finish the build.

David

[376Steyr]

"Plan B could be to simply buy a sad used 1911 and try simply swapping the top end, and see if everything works."
IIRC, a 1911 .45 frame will need to have it's ejector changed for a .38 Super one.

[seaboltm]

Honestly I would advise against it. I have built a total of about a dozen 1911's from parts. I have used caspian, essex, and remsport frames. My favorite frame was caspian, with remsport being a close tie. You will get nickel and dimed to death. By the time you assemble this gun you will have $1200 in it if you consider the cost of the parts you have. You are better off selling the things you have and buying an assembled pistol. There is ZERO resale value of a 1911 assembled from parts. I mean you would be lucky to get $500 for $1200 worth of effort. RUUUNNNN!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have to agree with Seaboltm on this one. there are too many good new 1911's to futz with building a gun from scratch. You can buy a great one for $600-700 or spend as much as you want. You won't be able to buy a frame and outfit it for that much.

The same holds true with AR's. Guys always want to build one,,, WHY? the are about 11 million different brands on the market from $500 to as much as you want to spend. what you build out of parts will always cost you more and probably won't work as well as a factory assembled gun.

Sell the parts,,,, buy something nice.

Randy

[Jupiter7]

As a competent AR builder and shooter and staunch 1911 shooter. I would never compare the two as to building. I've never had to fit any parts to any AR. My $1k build would easily cost you double and ive got less than $100 in tools. Building a 1911 requires some skill and patience. Fitting every part is the norm in the 1911 and some of the tools just can't be improvised. I've done a few things like fitting grip safety and changing/fitting triggers, which all took longer than any compelete AR assembly.

As to parts, brown, Wilson, cylinder and slide and STI make great parts. STI makes great frames along with caspian (foster is caspian seconds). Heard lots of great things about remsport. Don't put much thought into cast vs. forged. Caspian actually used to sell cast frames(maybe still), cast by ruger's investment casting company.

[yotatrd4x4]

I agree with the guys who say don't bother putting it together. After the money spent you will never have a valuable gun period. I have done it before and wasted my money. Also I am pretty sure a lot of Caspian frames are cast. Ruger has been making them for Caspian for years and I know the new Ruger is cast. I'm not 100% certain on that one but have read a lot that says its so. I wouldn't worry about a cast frame anyway the slide is the main issue with some castings. But I would have to say Ruger has made about every gun they have with investment castings and they are all tough as nails so its probably a moot point now days. Heck a cast steel frame is still prob 10 times tougher than aluminum and there are a lot of those around. Anyway you could always buy a colt 38 super gun and have the extra bits as spares. I know they may have to be fit if you needed them but that would be cheaper than buying new parts and paying fitting. Also that top end may get you a little cash to cover the cost of the new gun. Personally I would sell the parts and buy a springfield or S&W or Ruger. New colts cost too much for the sloppy fitment. If you do buy a springer get one that is finished in the USA. It will say made in Geneso IL and has muh better fit and finish than the Brazil models. It should have a NM prefix on the serial number.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

What I would do is sell the slide, barrel, spring, bushing, ejector, guide rod and box to somebody else, take that money and put it toward a brand new in the box Colt Series 70. Or buy a Springfield Mil-Spec and spend the money to get it the way you want it.

[tbierley]

I have built a few 1911 and yes there do cost more than a base line 1911. But if you built your own you will have it the way you want it. And yes all parts will need to be fitted but if you take your time it is not hard to. There are some good books out there that will give a good start on the built. I last 1911 that I did the frame came RIA they are 115.00 shipped to your FFL they come with the plunger tube and grip bushing all ready on the frame. I also ordered a slide from them it came with the sights on it. Here are some pics of my 38 Super that I did. It was Cerkoted in tan. The other one is in 45 ACP. Merry Christmas.

[DougGuy]

I too have built a whole passel of 1911s some full race some plain jane. If you just want to build it up to shoot it to have something to do, that's one thing. It costs money to play these days no matter what your game is. Golf, fishing, etc.. And you never get out of it anywhere near what you put in it. Practicality says to agree with others here and sell off the upper, buy a whole up and running 1911, there are more to choose from now than ever before and most are of exceptional quality compared to even 20yrs ago.

I also don't think I would build a .38 Super, I would sooner build a .45 ACP cheaper ammo, more plentiful.

[tbierley]

If I was going to buy a up and running 1911. I would buy a RIA and yes it would be in 45 ACP but they have a 1911 in 9MM if you want to go that way. I have seen NIB Rocks going for 329 no on one can put one together that cheap.

[pmer]

WARD O, someone is going to end up with a nice parts gun and it might as well be you.

Why not hold out for a used Colt lower or similar quality?

[Green Frog]

Do you want a good shooter in 38 Super, Ward O? If so, you can buy a very reasonably priced frame from Sarco or even the higher priced one from Caspian. A basic set of mil-spec parts from a reputable source will run about another hundred or less if bought as a set, and you have a shooter. You will probably be at about $250 or less at this point and ready to shoot. You will also have a gun that is worth a max of about $400-500 if you try to sell it, but what will it be worth to you as a shooter, and what will you have gained in experience?

Then again, you can spend as much as you want for all brand name parts and have a showpiece, but what will its value be to you? You probably won't be able to get your money back out of it, but again, this is about value to you.

Finally, if you don't need/want a 38 Super, you will have no problem whatsoever selling that top to someone who does.

So you see, the bottom line is that you have to decide for yourself what to do, because each of the folks who have responded have given you the correct answer from their point of view, and you have to decide from your own POV with your own wants and needs considered. JMHO and worth what you paid for it, but there you go! ;)

Froggie

[Kraschenbirn]

If I were in your position and wanted a .38 Super for a 'shooter', I'd snag onto a 1911 frame and start building. You've already got all the .38 Super stuff you're gonna need so all you really need is a bare frame and a set of milsurp innards. On the other hand, if you're looking to assemble a piece for resale, I'd say you'd be better off to save the time and sell that .38 Super parts set and put the cash against whatever you really want.

In the past, I've built up a couple of 1911s for myself...my pet steel-clanger/pin-buster is a 'parts gun'...and, discounting my labor, could sell them today for what I've got invested in the bits and pieces but I sure wouldn't make any money on them, either. If I had an extra frame laying around, though, I do know a guy who's got a craving for a .38 Super shooter...

Bill

[pmer]

Well my curiosity is getting the better of me now but wouldn't this lower be just what Ward O, is looking for? Maybe the series isn't correct but it would be all Colt.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=384360742

[WARD O]

Well, now you really have me confused - and I though this would be a simple decision!

That Colt frame is tempting.....

[Green Frog]

Ward O,

Keep in mind that whatever you build, to most people it will always be a "parts gun" as somebody above referenced. I don't know how much of a negative this is since all 1911s are built from parts! :roll:

I built my first "parts gun" 20+ years ago on an AMT lightweight aluminum frame (full size) with mostly mil spec and a few choice "upgrade" type parts. I traded it off for some other long forgotten project for about the value of the parts I used to build it. I have built several others over the years (just talking about 1911-type guns) but in all cases, they had little value beyond the parts of which they were constructed except for their utility value to me.

Only you know what your goal is with this build, but if you are hoping to make money out of it, I would suggest as others have, that you sell the slide now. If you want the experience of building a lower from scratch, or want to build a gun that will fulfill a specific niche for you (to keep) then go for it.

BTW, if you use the 70 Series lower referenced above, it will still be a "parts gun" of mismatched parts, so will not enjoy any special value. Again, all of this is JMHO, but I can truly say that I've "been there, done that."

Froggie

[yotatrd4x4]

Ward O,

What are you looking for as your main goal? Just a parts gun to play with? Something that will have value down the road? A gun that was built by you and that is valuable too? I am in now way trying to decide for you as to what you should do but think of this. How many 38 super shooters do you know? Do they shoot at the same places you do? Can you get the brass from your local ranges? How about mags from your local gun shop? Do you have to have a 38 super? I am asking this because I got a really nice series 70 Colt in 38 super and after loosing countless pieces of brass while shooting to never find them all and having to mail order new brass or buy it on here and not being able to go to my local gun spots to get a new mag etc I let it go. I don't compete so to me a 38 super has nostalgia but that's it. For some that's enough. Also the 45 has nostalgia too. Heck it and the ole boring 30-06 win a World War. For a while I liked odd calibers but with times how they are now with scrounging brass and gun parts I stick to the most common calibers. If you sold off your Colt top end you could almost buy a rock island outright. I bought a citadel which is still made by the same guys and it's just like the rock island tactical so it has beaver tail and commander hammer and fancy trigger as well as dovetailed front and rear sights. Even here is Alaska I think it was $450. I will say it humbles me since it works as good as all my nice 1911s and I have twice as much in 1 and 3 times as much in the others. To sway you back the other way though it does feel good to have a gun built how you want it but these days I feel you can go play with 20 or so different models and find exactly what you want.

[km101]

I too was thinking of "building" a 1911 as a winter project. I have a complete slide and a few of the needed frame parts. Once I got out the parts list and started pricing what I would have to have to complete the gun, I quickly found out that it is NOT economically feasible.

Unless you just have to have a gun that is built by you and you have the skill and tools necessary to do the project it is not worth it. I found that quality parts alone, not counting a jig that I would need, would cost more than a complete mid range 1911. I quickly reconsidered my wishes and started shopping for guns instead.

Just my $0.02 YMMV