Need advise on 45c mould

[MrWolf]

I posted in the group buy section under the Ruger only .454 this statement:

I could use some advise here. I just purchased the Ruger Blackhawk 45c/45acp convertible revolver 4 5/8" barrel. From what I can see, two good choices would be this mould or the 454-308-Keith. They are fairly close in weight, but the metplat is larger in this one. I also plan to pick up a Marlin 1894 CB in 45c in the foreseeable future. My thought is to order this mould for the Blackhawk (paper punching for now). I would assume that I would need a different mould for the Marlin and am trying to be proactive, so should I be getting both moulds to do what I want or is there a better mould for the Marlin? I know it is a gamble without slugging the barrel. Each time I look at a different mould I start doubting myself. From what I have read, the Ruger only mould would seem to be the best mould to start with (I know there will be many more for this six shooter as I tinker). I would appreciate some advise based upon your actual experiences. Thanks - Ron

[MtGun44]

452423 for the pistol, but no idea if it will feed thru the Marlin.

Bill

[Piedmont]

Your Blackhawk's sights may not accommodate a 300 grain bullet. I would check that before ordering a heavy mold. Your future Marlin will likely work best with a Cowboy type bullet (round flat nose). It might jam with a too large meplat, also. You won't know till you try it but guys have run into that on some of the group buys. If it were me I would order a Cowboy bullet of around .454-.455 from the get-go that wasn't overly heavy and didn't have a huge meplat. Personally I would go around %70 meplat. Don't get too long a nose either or it may tie up the Marlin's feeding.

If you wanted to run it hard in the lever action, consider a gas check. If not, get a plain base. Accurate Molds will make whatever you want, even if you can't find exactly what you want in his online catalog. Email him if you want to change his closest design to what you want and he will draw it up for you. This will be more expensive but it is nice to get exactly what you want for a change.

Paper punching with a 300 plus grain bullet in a Blackhawk is not much fun unless you are a masochist.

['74 sharps]

The original design of the 45 Colt bullet in 1873 is found in Lyman's 454190. Use it in my Colt Army, and has fine accuracy and casts very nice bullets.

[MrWolf]

Thanks for the advise. I had not thought about the bullet weight in relation to the sights - thanks Piedmont. I will look at the other moulds listed. Since I am new to this type of pistol, I might try ordering cast bullets of different designs if that is feasible.

[ElDorado]

I'm not sure what your goal is. Is it just paper punching? There's no need for a 300 grain for that, and a MiHec group buy can take years before you have the mould in hand. Others have noted that the 454190 is the quintessential design for the 45 Colt, so you can't go wrong there. It would probably be fine for the Marlin, too.

You note that you have the 45 Colt/45 ACP convertable, and if your plan is to use both of those cylinders with one mould, then I would agree with MtGun44 on the Lyman 452423, or even something like the 452374. I don't think the 452423 is made anymore, but they show up for sale now and then.

Most likely, you'll end up with more than one mould for the gun anyway, so don't try to overthink the situation.

[Larry Gibson]

I don't shoot the 45 Colt in a Ruger or Marlin. I do shoot the 45 Colt in 2 Uberti SSAs, one convertible with 45 ACP cylinder, and a Uberti M73. A coule friends use the same loads in Rugers and Rossi rifles though. Favorite bullet is the Lee 452-200-RF. It is pushed to 1150 -1200 fps out of the rifles and 950 fps out of the revolvers. Same bullet can be used in the 45 ACP. Accuracy is excellent in all.

Larry Gibson

[white eagle]

I think you would be hard pressed to get 1 mold for all (and what fun is that?)
a 454424 is a good start for the colt for the acp you would want something a bit lighter that that some of Miha's 200 gr hp or something in the 200-230 gr range from Accurate

[MrWolf]

I am already in the group buy for the 452374 for my 1911, so I figured I would try that for the acp cylinder. I guess I was overthinking the 45c with a 300 gr. I will take a look at the 190-200 grain moulds. I also agree that I will probably have a few :) moulds by the time I am done. Thanks folks and Merry Christmas - I just have to look surprised when I open my Blackhawk from Santa tomorrow. Wife/kids know I bought something but it is a surprise [smilie=w:

[Larry Gibson]

I found a long time ago that heavy bullets are not really needed for "paper punching" or plinking, small game and general fun shooting with my revolvers or the leverguns. I've gone to lighter weight bullets and more pleasant loads in most of my handgun cartridges. However, I think you'd find the 200 gr RF at 980 fps to be a potent enough round for all but hunting and then I wouldn't hesitate to use it on deer or pigs if I had too. I save the 45-255-KT and the GC'd 452 490 (245 SWC) for those heavier hunting loads.

In the SAA with 45 ACP cylinder I've zeroed the sights so the 200 RF at 980 fps is dead on at 50 yards. With the 45 ACP cylinder and the Lee 452-190-SWC or the 200 gr RF at 880 fps it is dead on at 25 yards. No need to rezero between the 45 Colt and 45 ACP. I shoot the 45 Colt 200 gr RF load at 1200 fps (same load as in the revolvers) out of my Uberti M73 out to 200 yards with excellent accuracy also.

Larry Gibson

[TomAM]

"Ruger Only" designs typically have .44"-.45" long noses (crimp to meplat) to take advantage of the long Blackhawk cylinder.
.325" is about maximum nose length to function well in the Marlin 94, and .315" is SAAMI maximum for the 45 Colt.
There's nothing wrong with using a long nose to increase powder capacity, but you have to ask yourself whether you really intend to hotrod the Ruger so severely that it's worth losing functionality in other guns. The 45 Colt already has enough case capacity for extremely stout loads. And of course if your intention is paper punching, it's actually counterproductive to increase COAL since the greater powder capacity will only make pressure more erratic with small powder charges.
The real advantage that you get with a Ruger Only nose for a hot load in a Ruger is that the cartridge won't fit in SAAs and their replicas and blow them up.

[Dale53]

I have a Ruger Bisley Convertible.

I shoot the Mihec version of the H&G #68 in the .45 ACP cylinder. There are other good choices. If you happen to have some .45 Cowboy Special brass, you can use that in the .45 ACP cylinder and use any bullet you have for the .45 ACP and also have the option to use the Lyman 454424 (a 250 gr. Keith) with the crimping groove for heavier loads (you can safely drive the bullet to 900+ fps). I use the NOE version with excellent results.

In the .45 Colt case (and cylinder), my go to bullet is the Dave Scoville design (my version is by Mihec and weighs 280+ grs. in solid form and 270 grs in Hollow point - arguably one of the most versatile and effective bullets available for the .45 Colt). Brian Pearce has a terrific article on this bullet in solid form in the Handloader magazine (Handloader #246 April/May 2007). It will shoot to the sights in most .45 Colt Handguns including my Bisley Vaquero and the Bisley Convertible.

Most on here would not think of using black powder in a cartridge revolver, but my experience has shown that it can be completely practical with the right bullets and correct lube (along with a proper cleaning regimen). The Lyman 452664 is a dandy round flat 250 gr bullet that has enough lube capacity for excellent results in the .45 Colt. That same bullet is a practical lower recoil load in the .45 Cowboy Special in the .45 ACP cylinder, too.

Here is the Mihec version of the RCBS .454-270-SSA:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/LoadedRounds45-270-SAA-3732.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/LoadedRounds45-270-SAA-3732.jpg.html)

Here is that bullet hollow pointed:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/MiHecCramerStyleBulletMould-3207-1.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/MiHecCramerStyleBulletMould-3207-1.jpg.html)

FWIW
Dale53

FWIW
Dale53

[ElDorado]

Here is the Mihec version of the RCBS .454-270-SSA:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/LoadedRounds45-270-SAA-3732.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/LoadedRounds45-270-SAA-3732.jpg.html)

FWIW
Dale53

Nice boolits and great photo. :grin: It puts me in the holiday spirit, for some reason. :)

[detox]

Why are the RCBS and Lyman Cowboy designs so often overlooked...these boolits were designed as maximum plinking rounds. I have the RCBS Cowboy mould cast using softer 20-1 alloy...lubed with SPG lube and it shoots verygood. Lighter in weight for less recoil and less lead thrown away. I shoot these in my Blackhawk only, but should work in leveractions also.
https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=3398

Third bullet on right in picture is 230gr Cowboy. Fourth bullet on right is RCBS 270gr. These bullets are huge compaired to the smaller .358 caliber bullet. For plinking I'd much rather shoot the smaller 38 Special or 357.

[dubber123]

As mentioned, you may run out of sight adjustment with a 300+ gr. boolit in your Ruger. As another note, I was in a GB for a 310 gr. Keith style SWC years ago, with about 65 other people. Most tried using it for 800-900 fps. loads and reported mediocre accuracy at best. I and one other fellow got it to shoot decently, (2" or so at 50 yds.), and we both noticed accuracy got better the closer to 1,200 fps. we got, and thats going to be a pretty stout load from a 4-5/8" barrel. I would lean towards something in the 250-280 gr. range, although that LEE 200 RF Larry mentioned does shoot very well indeed. Good luck.

[pls1911]

For serious hog work nothing beats the RCBS .454-270-SSA, or MiHec equivalent over 10 grains of unique.
It kills way beyond expectations. Mine are cast soft, heat treated hard, and are accurate in my Rugers.
Physical damage was compaired side by side with the friend's 44 magnum on an already dead pig which fell to a ranch Dog 165 from a 30-30....44 mag was fine, but big time noisy and big recoil. 45 Colt wasn't far behind but was noticeably more comfortable, and simply blew out the far side of the pig. This load also leaves a basket ball sized blowhole in soft mud, about the consistency of pig innerds.