Pictures of destroyed/Melted Powder hoppers wanted.

[44Vaquero]

Gentlemen, I am in need of any pictures of wrecked powder hoppers that you may have. I need to settle the age old argument of "Will storing powder in the measure eventually degrade/ruin the plastic hopper".

Unfortunately the I failed to take photographic evidence of the last 2 I replaced.

[imashooter2]

I've got an old Lyman tube with plenty of Bullseye melted into it, but no pictures. Why bother to prove it? Let them that won't be told carry on and learn by experience.

[44Vaquero]

Imashooter2, Sometimes I just feel the need to kick the legs out from under the Gentleman Armchair Re-loaders that have been appearing recently. They bug me because give the newbies bad info like it's gospel.

[bangerjim]

Nitroglycerine (major part of modern smokeless, as you know) will melt many plastics over a time!

HDPE will not be bothered......why they make powder bottles out of it.

banger

[dbosman]

Many people don't understand the concept of long term. Long term anything.

[btroj]

Nitroglycerine (major part of modern smokeless, as you know) will melt many plastics over a time!

HDPE will not be bothered......why they make powder bottles out of it.

banger

More than melting plastic nitroglycerin can migrate from the powder into the plastic, this changes the powder chemically.

Powder just doesn't get stored in a measure. Ever.

[Heavy lead]

Powder just doesn't get stored in a measure. Ever.
Amen brother, I found especially 'Lil Gun and Longshot are vicious, however NOTHING gets stored ever, when I'm done with a reloading session it goes back to it's rightfull home.

[44Vaquero]

More than melting plastic nitroglycerin can migrate from the powder into the plastic, this changes the powder chemically.

Powder just doesn't get stored in a measure. Ever.

Exactly!

[brtelec]

How long are you talking about to do this kind of damage?

[Bullshop Junior]

I've never had this happen, in fact this is the first time I have ever heard of it. But I usually dump the powder right back in the can as soon as I am done loading. I also use RCBS :mrgreen:

[imashooter2]

How long are you talking about to do this kind of damage?

Not sure. The one I have was my Father's measure and he left it set up with Bullseye in it for days at a time over a period of about 15 years. It probably never sat for more than a week at a time without being emptied.

I empty my measures after loading and most of the tubes still show yellowing after years of use.

[imashooter2]

Imashooter2, Sometimes I just feel the need to kick the legs out from under the Gentleman Armchair Re-loaders that have been appearing recently. They bug me because give the newbies bad info like it's gospel.

Well then here you go, courtesy of eBay...

http://galleryplus.ebayimg.com/ws/web/190800489140_1_0_1/500x500.jpg http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE5OVg4OTk=/z/tuIAAOxyQj9RIunU/$%28KGrHqJ,!iYFDeo,KR-6BRIunUDb0g~~60_12.JPG?set_id=880000500F

The one I have is much worse with flakes imbedded in the plastic.

[btroj]

I would expect the change to take time. Leaving powder in the measure will cause the powder against the measure walls to change. Shaking to measure every week or so will make the change happen more as new powder is then in contact with the measure walls.

[seaboltm]

I have some Lee die storage boxes that got some flakes of powder in them. I didn't remove it. The powder flakes are melted into the plastic. The timeline for that was a matter of months.

[MattOrgan]

Years.......in less than ideal conditions. I bought a Lyman 55 measure a yard sale that the owners son said had been in the garage since the late 40s or early 50s and I believe contained HiVel #2. (there was a partial can of powder in the garage, the only one the son said his dad had)The hopper was an amber /black color and powder grains were stuck to the inside and you couldn't see through it. I'm still using the measure, (the slides are slightly eroded/corroded from the powder) but I did replace the hopper. Used the rest of the HiVel in the original can too, no problems. Light is bad for powder. In a couple of Dillon 1000s I had in my commercial loading business the powder measures were never emptied for 10 to 12 years because they were being used 6 or 7 days a week, and yes they darkened. I have a Redding measure that I've have for 30 years that I always empty and it's pretty dark now. And so really what's the issue? My warning to those who don't empty their measures is about safety, if you leave it a don't remember what was in it you could have an accident. I always used a china marker on my commercial measures to mark type, load, and lot number to keep things straight. As a matter of fact I do that today with my measures along with having only one powder container on the bench. Written from my armchair this evening :-)

[Bullshop Junior]

Well then here you go, courtesy of eBay...

http://galleryplus.ebayimg.com/ws/web/190800489140_1_0_1/500x500.jpg http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE5OVg4OTk=/z/tuIAAOxyQj9RIunU/$%28KGrHqJ,!iYFDeo,KR-6BRIunUDb0g~~60_12.JPG?set_id=880000500F

The one I have is much worse with flakes imbedded in the plastic.

ok, that I have seen. That has happened to both of my RCBS, even though I empty them. It started to show after just a month or two on my newer one. I always thought it was just graphite dust...

[MaryB]

I always empty, with my memory I may forget what was in there...

[TNsailorman]

I've have never made it a practice to store powder in a hopper beyond the loading session that I have in progress. I only have one powder at a time out of the cabinet and any powder left from that immediate session goes back into the can/jug it came out of and is return to the storage cabinet it came from. Saves me from problems.

[seagiant]

Hi 44,
To many messed up hoppers to count! That's why I ended up making my own a lot of times! The other problem are that many hoppers are just thin to begin with and then after a few years of use AND the powder problem, they crack!

[jmorris]

I have some that are "smoked" but none that are melted. VV powders are a lot better than others. I have two measures that have had powder stored in them since the day I set them up, although rotated often, they don't look as bad as the Lyman one above.

[Bzcraig]

I've have never made it a practice to store powder in a hopper beyond the loading session that I have in progress. I only have one powder at a time out of the cabinet and any powder left from that immediate session goes back into the can/jug it came out of and is return to the storage cabinet it came from. Saves me from problems.


It just doesn't make sense to NOT do this, for me it is a safety issue not a storage issue.

[w5pv]

Amen brother, I found especially 'Lil Gun and Longshot are vicious, however NOTHING gets stored ever, when I'm done with a reloading session it goes back to it's rightfull home.
very good advice saves mistaken identity and headaches later

[dtknowles]

Quote Originally Posted by Heavy lead View Post

Amen brother, I found especially 'Lil Gun and Longshot are vicious, however NOTHING gets stored ever, when I'm done with a reloading session it goes back to it's rightfull home.


very good advice saves mistaken identity and headaches later

Good general advice but common sense does not preclude keeping the powder hopper of a often used progressive press fill with propellant. I keep Green Dot powder in my Lee Auto disk most of the time. Plastic does not seem to be affected and there is no problem with the powder being misidentified (it has those green dots, right). I also keep Green Dot in my Lyman 55 as well with no problems. I have three other measures that are most often empty but if I am in the process of loading a batch of ammo and I call it quits before I am done I will leave the powder in the measure with the can right next to the measure. I recheck the setting using a scale before I throw any new charges when I get back to finishing that lot but I don't empty the measure until I finish the lot even if it takes me a couple sessions. I hope this does not get me labeled as some newbee passing himself off as an expert spreading bad advise. I don't see this as a one size fits all situation. I have been at this a long time and even before I started loading I saw my uncle's shotshell loader and it always had powder in it. He never hurt himself with a reload and he must have reloaded for 50 years before he past away.

I think many posters to these forums are shy about posting anything but the most conservative approaches. I can understand, it would be sad to find out that someone hurt themselves because they either misunderstood the advice they got here or they just don't have the common sense to apply the advice they find.

You the reader need to use your brain. If you only have one powder, you can't get it misidentified, if you leave it in the measure you will still know what powder it is, will it damage your measure, that will depend on the measure. Will it get contaminated, not if you keep the cap on the measure.

Tim

[bangerjim]

I always empty, with my memory I may forget what was in there...


EXCELLENT POINT! More than melting or contamination is remembering WHAT is in the darn thing! I set the bottle behind the measure, but things tend to "walk around" on my bench, so that is no guarantee of the contents days or weeks later.

Empty EVERY time.

banger

[brtelec]

I have an adapter on my RCBS powder measure that allows me to screw the original powder canister on to it in place of the hopper. When you are done you just turn the measure upside down and unscrew the canister and put the lid back on.

[3jimbo3]

I've never had this happen, in fact this is the first time I have ever heard of it. But I usually dump the powder right back in the can as soon as I am done loading. I also use RCBS :mrgreen:

The RCBS will do this as well. I was loading some 9mm up when in the middle of my session I got a call for work. I left the powder in the hopper, (I really didn't think I would be gone all that long), but by the time I got home, slept off the 74 hour shift,and got back to my bench, yep the Bullseye got it. Not real bad but it was a brand new powder dropper. This was actually the first run that I was using it on. So a lesson learned here was, take 3 minutes to clean it out before you leave it. All this took place in less than 5 days total. It was also a new can of Bullseye, although I don't think that would have anything to do with it. What would have taken about 3 minutes or less to clean out, took me about 2 hours to clean up enough to be able to use it again.

[3jimbo3]

I have an adapter on my RCBS powder measure that allows me to screw the original powder canister on to it in place of the hopper. When you are done you just turn the measure upside down and unscrew the canister and put the lid back on.

Thats pretty cool, where can you get those?

[1950Hudson]

All the safety notes above are valid, so I am not in any way disputing those. If anyone has any definitive, expert information or data as to what the exact effect on the powder is, however, I could really use that. Does the deterioration in the powder make it burn faster or slower, more erratically, harder to ignite, etc.? Yes, I have a half-full powder measure, hastily garage-stored in a dark box, back at a time when my life was overtaken by events. Not being able to find anymore of that powder at the moment means I'd hate to throw it out if it could still be safely used.

[brtelec]

Thats pretty cool, where can you get those?

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/powder-handling/measure-stands-accessories/sinclair-powder-bottles-and-adapters-prod32959.aspx

[boltaction308]

I left ar2520 in 2 different dillon powder hoppers for 12 years. No damage to the hopper and he powder is fine as well.

[adrians]

I took this hopper off a used 55 I got from a LGS , not sure what powder did it nor do I think it is destroyed but it's certainly pitted and ugly.

now my 55 wears a new brass hopper,,,,

Will powder react with the brass over time ?.
9150991511

[EDG]

Powder is damaged by exposure to light so never store it in any tranparent or translucent container.
Most powders will aborb mositure from the atmosphere. It may or may not affect the burning characteristics.
It will affect the specific gravity - that is weight per unit volume.

[geargnasher]

I smoked the reservoir on my RCBS Uniflow in less than 24 hours with Hodgdon Titegroup.

I still have and use it, took me some bit of time with a table knife to finally get the granules scraped out of the plastic. There's a nice textured area where the powder ate it.

If this is still a point of contention, I'll put up pics.

One more thing: I store Universal, Unique, and Clays more or less permanently in the Lee Pro-Autodisc measures on my progressives. Have been doing so for a few years now. Never had so much as a haze form on the hoppers.

Gear

[44Vaquero]

Adrians, Thank you for the picture. That is getting closer to what I was looking for. My Hornady actually expanded at the bottom and became so soft you could dig a gouge in it with a finger nail! That was several years ago.

EDG, you are correct light and moisture. Heat also plays a big part. It is worth mentioning that the Lee hopper seem to be more resistant than the other manufactures.

[Bullshop Junior]

Adrians, Thank you for the picture. That is getting closer to what I was looking for. My Hornady actually expanded at the bottom and became so soft you could dig a gouge in it with a finger nail! That was several years ago.

EDG, you are correct light and moisture. Heat also plays a big part. It is worth mentioning that the Lee hopper seem to be more resistant than the other manufactures.

I really don't understand this. My dad had a RCBS uniflow tat was over 30 years old, and it was never empty other then to change powder, and it never got to be more then discolored. We tried cleaning it, and were able to make it look about like new again.

[MtGun44]

Hmm. I have stored powder in my Dillon 450s and 550s since about 1982, never dump it out. Other
measures may use different materials. No issues with storing for a few days to weeks in two RCBS
measures, green plastic reservoirs.

No problems with BE, Titegroup, W748, SP8 and Clays. I dump out that for my secondary calibers that I don't
keep actually in the machine for continuous use. The most used are kept full, .45 ACP, .38 Spl, 9mm and
.223.

Bill

[Old Caster]

I keep Clays in one 550 for 45 ACP all the time and it never causes any trouble but I wouldn't dare do that with Power Pistol because that will ruin the plastic in a hurry. I am sure it matters what kind of powder it is.

[crowbuster]

Mine was a hornady as well, 2400 melted and made it soft like 44's. Never posted a pic in my life. May have the wife help me with that after i find said tube.

[Bonz]

Damaged by Titegroup

91673

[MtGun44]

BE has a substantial amount of nitroglycerine, and I think TG does, too. Maybe that
is the magic solvent. Apparently whatever Dillon uses is immune. I have a Dillon measure that
has been 1/2-2/3 full of W231, BE or for the last decade and a half, TG all the time.

Bill

[Linstrum]

Smokeless powders use various combinations of solvents like diethyl ether, ethanol, ethyl acetate, ethyl carbonate, propyl carbonate, and acetone, to name a few, and it is the residues of these in conjunction with nitroglycerine that are what dissolve the plastic powder hoppers. Nitroglycerine is a plasticizer as well as a solvent, it does damage to highly soluble common plastics like styrene and polyvinyl chloride.

As was mentioned, high density polyethylene and polypropylene are virtually immune to solvents. PET (polyethylene terephthalate) aka Dacron also seems to be immune, it is what crystal-clear water bottles, 2-liter pop bottles, and vodka/whiskey bottles are made from, and I've kept WC860 and WC872 double base powders in 2-liter pop bottles for 10 years without any sign of dissolving/damage.

rl 1,206

[jetinteriorguy]

Lately I've been leaving the powder in the hoppers for up to a week, I have noticed my Lyman 55 hopper is a little darker which I assumed was from the graphite. My Lee PPM shows no sign of anything happening. I think I'll just empty them when done like I always used to do, can't hurt anything. I have been putting some bright red plastic party cups over the top to block out any sunlight to protect the powder though. I also mark each measure with what powder and amount it's set for when last using it. I do this with a sharpie and on a piece of masking tape that I stick on the hopper just for reference.

[44Vaquero]

MtGun44, You are correct some powders more than others BE and TG being two of them! The other issue is over the years various manufactures have used different types of plastics and vinyl's for their hoppers with varying degrees of success/failure.

I know I destroyed my Hornady with BE, it's hopper/tube was a very soft vinyl to start with. You see plenty of smoked Lyman 55's from the 50's and 60's, back when BE was the go to pistol powder for everthing!

[stephen]

MtGun44, You are correct some powders more than others BE and TG being two of them! The other issue is over the years various manufactures have used different types of plastics and vinyl's for their hoppers with varying degrees of success/failure.

I know I destroyed my Hornady with BE, it's hopper/tube was a very soft vinyl to start with. You see plenty of smoked Lyman 55's from the 50's and 60's, back when BE was the go to pistol powder for everthing!

Here's my inverted Hornady hopper. Left BE in it for too long...
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/steve1981107/Photo068.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/steve1981107/media/Photo068.jpg.html)
You can see how the protected baffle area wasn't affected.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd123/steve1981107/Photo069.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/steve1981107/media/Photo069.jpg.html)
I wouldn't mind picking up a brass hopper eventually.

[olereb]

The first one I ever bought I ruined by leaving Bullseye in it,i lived in AZ and it was so dry I figured it would be ok not knowing that the powder would literally melt the plastic over time. I now empty it within a day of finishing reloading to avoid that from happening again.

[destrux]

I was given an RCBS measure that has signs of damage, I haven't seen any rapid damage like some of you describe. I usually keep mine full and slide a long tin can over the top to keep the light off the powder (what little there is in my dark basement).

I'm in the habit of keeping the can next to it, and that being the only can out of the powder cabinet.

I will make it a point from now on to empty my measures from now on. I thought the damage was done from a bad can of powder being dumped in there. I didn't realize powder would attack the plastic.

[merlin101]

More than melting plastic nitroglycerin can migrate from the powder into the plastic, this changes the powder chemically.

Powder just doesn't get stored in a measure. Ever.


UH OH!! I gotta go dump that 296 back in the jug. I guess thats why the plastic tube is no longer clear? Learned something new .