Need help learning the creedmore position

[Whiterabbit]

Hi guys,

Finally tried shooting my pistol one-handed. Just one round, and I was running out the door at the end of the day, but I tried it. It was surprisingly soft compared with two handed shooting.

I'd like to learn the creedmore position, but know really nothing about it except internet pictures.

Looks like barrel goes against calf, wrist or grip goes against thigh, elbow on ground, head on other arm. Make sure barrel isn't pointed at leg. Is it that simple?

If so, what do you guys do about the fireball coming out of the cylinder? it will tear my pants to shreds in short, short order. Even 2-3 feet away when someone is revolver shooting in the bay next to me the cylinder spit can break skin and cause red marks.

Any other tips?

[Doc Highwall]

Use a piece of leather over your thigh to protect it.

[Love Life]

^^What he said. I tried the Creedmoor position with a FA Model 83 in 454 Casull loaded with a STOUT charge of 2400. Once was enough to learn my lesson.

[Whiterabbit]

if you don't mind my asking, why was once enough? I tried standing off-hand with one hand (no target, just hitting the berm). My wrist seemed okay with it. For one round....

Was it your wrist that had enough? or something else?

[BCRider]

.......454 Casull loaded with a STOUT charge of 2400.....

If you've ever shot this sort of load you'll agree that it would be the side blast on the leg from shooting in the Creedmore handgun position. The side blast would cut and burn the pants and most certainly damage the skin below to at least SOME extent.

It would take a heavy and thick leather legging to avoid getting beaten up by such a load. And I suspect that the leather would require fairly frequent replacing as well.

Keep in mind that back in the days of the original Creedmore matches that no one had come out with the hot cartridges. The various Magnum loadings were still years in the future as were the other hot and high pressure cartridges like the .454Casull. With the cartridges of that time holding the revolver close to your leg as required by the lay down position would have done nothing more than dirty up the shooter's pants. Although even with the loads of the day over time the material would get pretty chopped up without some form of leather legging.

You Tube has quite a few videos of long range handgun shooters using bolt action guns such as the Remington XP100 for metallic silhouette shooting.

[Love Life]

The blast from the barrel cylinder gap and muzzle was not kind to me.

Shooting the 454 loaded to the gills with one hand was not unbearable at all, but plopped against my leg was not a good idea. User error on my end.

It didn't cut the pants, but left nice burn marks. I was glad I was wearing long johns beneath my thick Carhartt pants. It was entirely my fault as I did not even consider the blast areas from the revolver before I tried it out. Just sheer stupidity on my end.

[Larry Gibson]

If one looks at the old original handgun shooters of the creedmore position like Keith they were up a bit higher on their resting elbow and had the barrel/cylinder gap in front of the shin. I also learned the hard way with a 44 magnum and a Keith load to keep the barrel/cylinder gap away from the leg. The use of closed breach single shot handguns allows a more relaxed laid back position.

Larry Gibson

[bhn22]

I simply don't have enough usable joints left in my body for creedmore. Hell, I didn't have enough of them thirty years ago when I was shooting IHMSA.

[WALLNUTT]

You will need to use a blast shield with a revolver. Tip:point your toes together a little,it will help your knees to rest against one another.

[KYCaster]

I never shot IHMSA, but I did try the Creedmore position. If I had started earlier in life, maybe it would have been OK, but these old joints just would not cooperate. Accuracy was great, but I couldn't maintain the position for any length of time. I needed several minutes to recover between shots.



You will need to use a blast shield with a revolver. Tip:point your toes together a little,it will help your knees to rest against one another.


Wallnutt........that's the same tip my doctor gave me just before the prostate exam. [smilie=1:

Jerry

[JHeath]

if you don't mind my asking, why was once enough? I tried standing off-hand with one hand (no target, just hitting the berm). My wrist seemed okay with it. For one round....

Was it your wrist that had enough? or something else?


Check this Hickock45 video at 2:06

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VFBAcz16GvU

He's not in the Creedmoor position, but you can see the problem with having any body parts in line with the cylinder gap.

[cbrick]

The use of closed breach single shot handguns allows a more relaxed laid back position. Larry Gibson

With a proper leg guard there really isn't a difference between shooting closed breech single shots and revolvers.

Without a leg guard . . . Well, ask Love Life. :mrgreen:


I tried the Creedmoor position with a FA Model 83 in 454 Casull loaded with a STOUT charge of 2400. Once was enough to learn my lesson.

Consider yourself lucky that you were shooting an FA with .001"-.002" barrel cylinder gap. Had it been like most revolvers and had .005" gap you would still be healing up.

Rick

[Doc Highwall]

A friend showed that to me about 35-40 years ago, in relation to how some people put their hand over the cylinder gap when they are going to cock the revolver for single action shooting and what would happen if the gun went off.

[44man]

Even a .357 can make you feel like a sledge smacked your leg. I used mostly old, thick cargo belting for a blast shield with a strap to hang over my knee. The one I have on my bench is thick rubber, little over 1/4" thick and some revolvers still can be felt through it.
Remember the guy that cut his thumb off with a .460? I don't think you want that near your leg.
I don't know if you can get the Kevlar shields any more.

[Whiterabbit]

yes, I shoot 460 with a couple different buddies. One time during bench shooting we pulled the brass guard from between the two benches and started firing away. Pretty much stopped half of the range activities while that was going on. Anyways, he was wearing gloves, I was not. our hands were in line with our respective cylinder gaps. And even 2-3 feet away, I could feel it when he fired. tiny cuts, a few red marks, that sort of thing. Like I drug the back of my hand through a holly bush or a pile of gravel. A lesson for sure. (as to what could happen at close proximity)

Which is one reason I'm asking here before I go nuts and take chunks out of my leg. best to go into it reasoned and with a plan.

Thanks guys for everything so far.

[JHeath]

There's an outstanding high-speed photo of cylinder gap flash here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bullet_coming_from_S%26W.jpg

You can see how close the blast passes your fingers. The photo looks like it came from the Hubble Space Telescope.

[Whiterabbit]

cool pic. Here's mine

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62256&d=1361684094

[7br]

I have ruined more than one pair of pants with a 7tcu contender. Usually, you only catch the blast. Make sure you are using an elbow pad. As the gun recoils up, your elbow will rotate down to the ground. Here is how I shoot creedmore. Lay down feet towards target. Draw your knees up and spread your feet a little wider than your hips. Point your toes slightly towards each other. Reach back with your off hand and hook your collar with your thumb. Spread your fingers and put the tips of your fingers on the ground. Rest your head on your arm. Rest your barrel against your calf making sure muzzle is past your leg and that your jeans haven't bunched up in front of the muzzle. If you are not shooting competition, you can wear boots for a little more support. Make sure your elbow is resting on the ground. You can dig the grip into the side of your hip for a little more windage stablity. I use an old cut down mud flap with a webbing loop for my blast shield shooting revolvers.

[JHeath]

cool pic. Here's mine

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62256&d=1361684094

Dang, I think flame is coming out of the scope!

[44man]

Stay away from the gap on any revolver without protection.
I have a problem with Rick saying a smaller gap is better, it has more pressure.
Either way, NEVER put a part of your body near the gap.

[cbrick]

Several years back while I was running the Los Angeles Silhouette Club I received an email through the web site from an Irish family. They were to vacation in Los Angeles and with handguns illegal in Ireland they wanted to know if they could have the opportunity to shoot some handguns. The dates of their visit matched our club dates so I said sure, come on over. The whole family showed up, Mom, Pop, sons, daughters, cousins, nephews, about ten of them. They shot some T/C's, an XP and a couple of revolvers. One of the sons about 17-18 years old wanted to know if there was anything bigger, he had read about big revolvers and wanted to try one. I got out the FA 454 (Loaded down to about 44 mag level for silhouette shooting) and showed him how to properly hold it, align the sights etc. I watched him carefully for the first few shots and he was doing just as instructed so on the next shot I watched the target instead of him. Shot went off and he missed but he didn't get ready for the next shot, was just standing there with the most profound look on his face. He had decided he could hold steadier if he wrapped his offhand around the cylinder. Holy yikes, I took the revolver and put it down & looked at his hand. A burn mark down his left index finger, a break in the burn where the frame was and then the burn continued up his thumb. Hand kind of frozen in the position of wrapped around the cylinder. I couldn't talk him into having a doctor look at it and the whole family decided he was ok.

They all thanked me profusely for letting them shoot & went on about their vacation, I waited for the lawsuit. Several weeks later I received a package in the mail from Ireland, it was a small framed hand painted scene of the Irish country side along with a card again thanking me for making their vacation in America so enjoyable. They said their son was fine, hand healing well and it didn't look like there would be any damage done.

That FA has a .001" barrel cylinder gap, had it been a Ruger or other revolver with .005" or .006" gap I can assure you it would have shredded his hand. As it was there was no broken skin, just burn marks and I'm sure his hand was quite numb for some time. There is a big difference in the amount of barrel cylinder blast from the gap depending on how much of a gap there is. Even so, not a good idea to wrap your hand around it and I know one Irish kid that will swear to that till his dying day.

Rick

[WALLNUTT]

7br Great instructions

[marshall623]

7br Great instructions

X2 I'll add practice with an empty gun at a target for sight alignment till you get your body so that you comfortable with a good sight picture. You'll be amazed how far you can shoot & hit what your shooting at with some practice

[Cheap Trick]

In 1980 I was 19 and had a Ruger super blackhawk. My brother had been to a metallic silhouette match and described the creedmore position to me. I wanted to try it so I cut the tongue out of a old leather boot and laced this to my leg. When the gun went off I thought that my leg was ripped open. It hurt soooo bad. The blast from the cylinder gap hit the leather and transferred so much force through the leather (without ripping it) that I thought that I was wounded bad. I didn't do that again!

[w5pv]

With my short arms,no creedmore here,Way too close to the jewels.

[Whiterabbit]

thanks guys. I've been "dry practicing", to get a sense of ergonomics. The barrel sticks out a mile and a half from my leg. Gonna work.

The cylinder gap happens to float in the space between my thigh and calf. That is either a blessing or a curse. A blessing because it's not close-coupled to my leg. A curse because that means that, distance or no, the gap-blast is gonna hit the back of my calf, the back of my thigh, and worst of all, the crook of my knee. It's my hope that a heavy veil of leather will be sufficient, combined with the distances involved, to shield me to relative comfort.

I have not sourced a guard yet. I'd like something hand-towel sized or larger, so I can drape it over my knee and have it cover most of my thigh and calf. Finding a leather scrap that is pliable enough to make this both comfortable and a reasonable fit, as well as tough enough to take more than 3 shots is something I assume won't be straightforward.

But it's where I'm taking this mental exercise. meanwhile, I'll try more one handed shooting un-rested at very short distances to train the fore-arm and get a keen understanding of the recoil involved. While I continue to dry-fit the position regularly. So I'll be ready to give it a go when I find the right leather piece.