cutting down a stock

[Jevyod]

I had posted earlier about replacing my synthetic stock with a laminated one. Problem is, Boyds length of pull is 13.75 inches. I am built more like a bulldog; thick with short appendages! I need something more in the 12.5 range. How difficult is it to cut the stock down? Next question, if I do cut it down, will it look weird and can I get a recoil pad for it? I am fairly comfortable with woodworking since I worked in a furniture shop for several years. And what saw should I use? Band saw, miter saw, something else?
Or maybe somebody on this fine place is experienced and would be willing to do it for me. We are short of good gunsmiths in my area. I just found one that is supposed to be pretty good, but he does not do any wood work on a gun.

[johnson1942]

a laminated stock wont be hard to work with . take a flexable piece of cardboard 1 or 2 inches wide and just long enough to go around the stocks butt. place it with masking tape tightly around the stock the spot you want your stock cut off at. give your self a extra 1/8 inch for wood filing it true. now with this template tight on the stock draw a clear line around the stock following the templates edge. put your stock in a secure vise useing a lot of padding so you dont mar it. now with a new hack saw coarse blade that is tight in a hack saw frame cut on the line all the way around the stock turning the stock as you cut. cut as straight as you can into the stock half ways. stay very carefully on the line. you may want to give your self a 1/4 inch extra when you put the template on for the trueing up . move the saw along the line and you can cut the extra wood off quite square this way. true up with a good wood file carefull not to chip the edges. center your butt plate back on the butt and mark the screw holes. drill straight into the butt stock a pilot hole for each screw with a drill bit that is a little smaller than your screw diam. their may or may not be extra wood over the edges of the out aside edge of your but plate. if their is you will have to take 220 wet sanding paper wrapped around a file and carefully work the stock down to fit the edge of the buttplate perfectly. then use 400 the 600 to polish out the wood to match the shine of the rest of the wood. your laminated stock is impregnated with resin so probably no need to put a finish on that worked on area. if your looking for a wonderful pad to slip over the butt after your done buffalo arms on the internet has about 3 diff. kinds and they are all real good. i have several of them. good luck with your gun.

[seaboltm]

I usually mark a line with a ruler where I want to cut. Then I tape shims as needed to have the stock perfectly level on the line that I want to cut. Literally put the level bubble on the line you drew and shim until level. I tape the shims in place with tape. At this point I use a chop saw. The work will be quick, and there is no truing up.

[CastingFool]

Any chance that a youth sized stock would work for you?

[wv109323]

If using a chop saw or table saw use a blade with finer teeth and preferably carbide tipped. Wrap the area that you are cutting with masking tape. This will prevent splintering of the wood along the cut line. The problem with a table saw is shimming the stock so that the cut is square and flat and then moving the stock to make the cut. A thin butt plate can be ground to fit the smaller cross section of the stock. A rubber recoil pad will need to be ground to fit. An "easy-fit" recoil will not fit the new cut.

[Ben]

Do yourself a BIG FAVOR.

Find a wood worker with a radial arm saw.
Hopefully he will have an 80 tooth blade.

Let him cut the stock, it will look like a laser went through it.

Ben

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ben: I've be stuck on My Springfield project for this exact point. I have to cut the stock. I have several ways to do it but don't have a radial arm saw. I do have a nice Hitachi chop saw.

If I clamp the fore end of the stock to the back stop of the saw and then go for my 84 degree cut would I run into any big problems with a carbide blade?

Randy

[Andrew Mason]

when I do recoil pads on wood stocks , I use a vertical band saw with a very fine blade and cut a line, then true up the face on a disk sander.
all of them have come out great

[jonas302]

Did you ask Boyds if they can do the modification for you?

[Ben]

Ben: I've be stuck on My Springfield project for this exact point. I have to cut the stock. I have several ways to do it but don't have a radial arm saw. I do have a nice Hitachi chop saw.

If I clamp the fore end of the stock to the back stop of the saw and then go for my 84 degree cut would I run into any big problems with a carbide blade?

Randy

Randy,

Don't try it with a " cross cut " blade that you'd use on a chop saw to cut 2 X 4's , etc. You won't be happy with the cut !

You need a good quality 80 tooth blade, carbide.

A blade like this would work well for what you're wanting to do:

http://www.amazon.com/D1080X-Diablo-10-Inch-80-tooth-PermaShield/dp/B00008WQ32

Don't forget to wrap the area to be cut with masking tape or a good quality shipping tape to prevent splintering.

Make certain of your alignment and be certain you have the stock secured so that it can't move a millionth of an inch.

If you don't have a good quality 80 tooth blade, ( they can run from 40 to over 100 dollars ), you might be better off taking your stock to a good cabinet shop. They will have a radial arm saw and an 80 tooth blade. They would probably cut the stock for 6 or 8 dollars. You can't buy any kind of blade for that. Just might be money well spent unless you are planning on cutting more stocks in the future, then the purchase of a good blade might be worth it.

I recently cut a Mod. 70 Win. stock on my radial arm saw. I shot this photo just prior to making the cut :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/013-31.jpg

Ben

[roysha]

Talk about over specing the job!! Some of you folks seem to think this is a major undertaking. Come on!

Get an adjustable marking gauge, some call it a scratch gauge, and set it to the length you want to remove. Scratch around the stock. Use a band saw and cut the stock, staying away from the mark by 1/8" or so, then use a disc sander with an 80-100 grit disc and finish bringing the stock to the mark. You are going to need the disc sander to fit/refit the pad anyway.

If you don't have a disc sander the odds of this project turning into a cob job are astronomical, especially since this is a laminated stock and they tend to flake, chip or otherwise lose a little bit of wood at the kerf when cut.

In the 50+ years I have been doing this, I have done literally 100s of stock shortening/pad installations this way and only buggered one stock. Cost me a complete stock refinish. Oh well.

[Jevyod]

Did you ask Boyds if they can do the modification for you?

Yes, that is the first thing I tried. Was told that they do not do that. But I was rather disappointed. I mean how hard could it be to offer a custom length of pull for a custom fee? But then I am not a manufacturer. Might slow production down too much.

[HawkCreek]

Another vote for masking tape/painters tape. Tape over the area you are going to cut THEN mark out your line. Cut through tape and all (with the proper blade) and you'll have the prettiest cut you ever saw.

[Bren R.]

"Why would anyone cut down a stock?" asked the guy with the 75" wingspan. :wink:

I've only ever had to cut down stocks for larger recoil pads or to fit stock spacers for looks... I shim them square with the butt (embedding them in putty with saran wrap over it so it doesn't get a raw stock greasy works) and then run them through the table saw on a sled with a finishing blade (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-12-in-x-80-Tooth-Finishing-Circular-Saw-Blade-D1280X/100036926#) and then sand to the line on a tabletop belt sander.

Having said that, I've never done a Tupperware or plywood stock, only solid dead tree.

Bren R.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ben: thanks for the info, and not overkill at all since I have virtually no knowledge of how to do this operation and have it come out right the first time. The reason why I have been so antsy about cutting it is because it is such a nice piece of wood I would literally Ship if I made a mess out of it. Buying the blade is not a problem since I need the tax deduction this year anyway.

Roysha: You have done 100's, I have done,,,, Exactly None. Once I see how it goes then I'll be able to step up quickly but this is not the one I should be practicing on. I also have a band saw and a disc/belt sander to use to true the cut up.

My main concern is not chipping the wood as it would completely ruin this project. I want a specific angle on the cut and the only way I see to do this and get it right is to cut it right to begin with. I would have to set up an extended table for my sander to maintain the angle otherwise, and will probably have to do this anyway depending on how accurate I can get the initial cut. If I get the cut right I shouldn't have to use the sander at all.

I am set up to do Recoil pads and can get them nearly perfect everytime, and the key to this is to get the little fixture from Brownell's or Midway and use a new belt on the sander that cuts quickly and cleanly.

Randy

[w5pv]

Listen to the experts that do this for a living,you will be better off in the long run.

[Ben]

Talk about over specing the job!! Some of you folks seem to think this is a major undertaking. Come on!

I'm sorry..., but if you are about to put a recoil pad on a $1,500.00 piece of wood and need to cut the stock , you don't get 8 chances to do it right, you get only 1.

Over specing the job!!, no I don't think so, using the right tools for the job , YES !

[nanuk]

Mr. Buchanan, aren't you a machinist?

perhaps you could set one up in a mill, and use an endmill like a router and rout it?

should be easy to set your angles then, no?

[roysha]

OOPS!! I didn't realize the Boyd's stock was $1500. I guess for a newbie that would be a bit intimidating.

[W.R.Buchanan]

That stock on my 03A3 was $200 and a damn nice piece of wood which is going to be spectacular when finished. Gooning it by making a novice mistake is not something I generally subscribe to. I do my homework first then I practice and then I try to get the good piece right.

Don't mistake caution for stupidity, I assure you they are completely different things here.

I just finished a job making some Titanium parts and the blanks were $47 a piece. I did not ruin one of them out of 50 parts, mainly because I took my time and figured out what to do for each operation so as to not scrap parts. A broken tap or a chipped endmill would have been a disaster, and individual replacements would have been a lot more expensive than $47 each. The $47 price was for a quantity of 50 each not one or two.

Scrapping my $200 stock blank after I already have about 30 hours in it is not the result I'm looking for.

Nunuk: It would certainly be doable like that, however the fastest the mill will spin is 3000 and a router type bit really needs to run more like 30,000. But the kicker here is you are cutting across end grain and so the possibility of blowing the edge out is there, more so than with a saw blade that is cutting across the end grain from one side to the other. Also the buttstock would be completely unsupported and probably vibrate like hell if held in a mill vise, causing much worse problems.

Also the "Chip Load" on the individual saw teeth will generate much less pressure to the wood than a cutter cutting across the whole butt stock's width, thus holding onto it will be easier. As Ben stated in his first post "It can't move at all!" The idea of the fine tooth blade is that each tooth's chip load in any given cut is going to be one half what it would be with a 40 tooth blade. IE less force being applied to the piece trying to relocate it, like if the blade catches and then you have 3-4 hp of the saws motor trying to relocate the part.

The smaller the bites the less force is applied to the work piece.

No I'll take my time on this one and when I figure it out I'll post the results along with pics of the set up.

Randy

[Bren R.]

May I suggest again using a cross-cut sled on a table saw and shimming the butt of the stock square with the blade.

Setup should take about 10 minutes, 15 if you have to change to an 80-tooth blade on the saw first.

All you are asking how to do is to make a parallel cross-grain cut in wood. No compound mitres, no strange profile... a straight cross-grain cut.

Here (http://woodgears.ca/delta_saw/small_sled.html) is a link on one way to make a small sled.

In the case of something oddly shaped like a stock... some Plasticene or other non-air-curing putty on the sled and built up under the stock works better than a whole boatload of shims, it's like a soft cradle for the stock. Cover it in saran wrap to avoid getting grease on the stock. Masking tape (good stuff, like 3M) over the cut area, and don't push the cut. Give yourself 1/8" by cutting it long and finish to the line on a stationary belt sander. I do one more stage after that, and push-sand on a mirror (or glass, or marble) with 400 grit wet/dry stuck to it to make it perfect.

Here are the last two stocks I cut down:
92382
Mauser 96 on the left with a spacer of Osage Orange/Maple/Osage Orange, Winchester 101 on the right with a spacer of Honduran Mahogany. Even at that magnification, there are NO gaps between any of the joints.

It's Woodworking 101. You just have to stop thinking like a machinist. :wink:

Bren R.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bren: thanks for the link to the Sled. I do have a table saw,, albeit an old Craftsman one and I have been meaning to make a sled and a taper jig for that machine for a while. I also need to make one of those jigs for making finger joints on boxes so I can make my gun chests for my Military rifles to live in.

I also like the idea of the Clay or putty for a nest for the stock that would take the vibration out of it for sure. The one thing I see as ruining this project is not being able to control the vibration of the stock while it is being cut. The same thing happens in machine shop land. If chatter starts you must deal with it immediately or else you'll have a mess to fix.

As far as not thinking like a machinist, most of the cabinet makers I have seen would make pretty decent machinists.

Randy

[Bren R.]

Thin kerf blade, as many teeth as you can get, steady hand through the cut, don't panic and stop - one cut... hell, you're leaving a 1/4", so if you do scorch the cut, you're sanding it off, anyway.

Thanks for taking the ribbing about machinists the right way. I come from a long line of Deutscher Kunsttischler (Cabinet makers) on dad's side. I'd be blessed to be half the woodworker my grandfather was.

Bren R.

[petrajimm]

The "cross cut" blade that you would use on a chop saw to cut 2 X 4s, etc. should not be used, . The cut won't make you pleased! You require an 80-tooth carbide blade of decent quality. A blade like this would be suitable for your intended use:
You can try
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B3BF8QL1?ref=myi_title_dp

[M-Tecs]

The "cross cut" blade that you would use on a chop saw to cut 2 X 4s, etc. should not be used, . The cut won't make you pleased! You require an 80-tooth carbide blade of decent quality. A blade like this would be suitable for your intended use:
You can try
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B3BF8QL1?ref=myi_title_dp

The link is for a ROCKPORT Combo 4 1/2 Diamond Blade for Angle Grinder Set - (3 Pack) Diamond Saw Blade & Grinder Blade for Dry/Wet Tile, Diamond Cutting Wheel for Stone, Granite, Concrete, 5/8" - 7/8" Arbor Tile Blade.

Also this thread is from 2013

[Shawlerbrook]

Great advice above, but I like the youth stock idea if available.

[Bmi48219]

…Also this thread is from 2013

Did they have band saws back then?

[Geezer in NH]

Band saw would not be my choice for a recoil pad. I Have cut many on my table saw. Rubber door stop to set up stock so it cannot move down at the wrist. Butt square to the rip fence, small tooth kef blade. set angle on the pusher so it has a solid purchase on the stock. Stock taped set blade to width of what you want cut off. Fire it up cut the stock. It takes 1/10th the time to do than to explain.

[725]

Lots of ways to skin a cat: I shorten stocks often because I have a limited wingspan, myself. YMMV, but I use a chop saw fitted with a furniture grade 100 tooth blade that is only used for cutting stocks. As noted above, spec-ing out the angle of the butt cut is critical; both the relation of the toe & heel and the 90 degree relation to the axis of the bore. Set up time is never wasted. Design your cut ahead of time and brace the workpiece firmly. Grindable recoil pads are the ones to use. Since the stock will be shortened, the length & width of the pad will be smaller than the one it started with. Remember to include the thickness of the recoil pad in your design calculations for the cut. Good luck. GET THE BEST BLADE YOU CAN AFFORD! I'm partial to the 100 tooth.

[M-Tecs]

Did they have band saws back then?

Yes they did but they were treadle powered..........

I do use a bandsaw and finish on a 16" disk sander. Is it the 'best" method??? For me it is since I don't have a table or chop saw.

[BLAHUT]

If you are worried about chiping out the edge of your stock in cutting it? After marking the length you want to cut to, carefully scribe the line with an exao knife with a new sharp blade< with this scribed line, no chips on finished surface>

[mtgrs737]

An old trim carpenter taught me that when cutting off a solid core door to us a sharp box knife to cut into the cut line and place heavy tape on the finished side of the cut to keep the wood splintering from the fine sharp saw blade. I did this to oak doors when fitting them to their frame so that they would clear the carpet etc. I never had trouble with wood splintering.

[petrajimm]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B3BC31HJ?ref=myi_title_dp
Small teeth kef blade, butt square to the rip fence. Set the pusher's angle so that it has a good grip on the stock. Stock taped, blade set to desired cutting width. Cut the stock and start it up. Doing it takes a fraction of the time of explaining it.

[pietro]

Wrap the area that you are cutting with masking tape.

This will prevent splintering of the wood along the cut line.



FWIW, this is the best advice you're going to get - you definitely won't regret following it.

.