Savage 99 ??

[0802]

I'm eyeballing a 99 in a local shop. Serial is 3507xx, which they tell me is a 1935 product and Savage99.com agrees.

Can anyone tell me the twist on this barrel? I know 99s transitioned from 1:14 to 1:10 with the introduction of the 100 gr bullet, but don't know when that was.

What would you pay for such a rifle? Receiver bluing is good, barrel has some wear, no extra holes in the receiver, no cracks in stock, case colors on lever are good but not perfect (better than most I've seen certainly). They say it books at $2000, but its a "Super Sale" at $1500. My money is staying in my pocket at that price. I've not seen good take down models go for more than $1300 in 250-3000.

Thanks,
Josh

[9.3X62AL]

I don't know the transition date of the Savage 99 in 250 Savage from 1-14" to 1-10" twist. My 1930 example with 1-14" twist shoots 100 grain castings and jackets VERY well, though.

I believe the 1-10" twist was brought about to enable use of the 115-120 grain bullets in the 250 at roughly the time of the 243 Winchester's introduction (1955), to counter the 243's ascendancy with the 100 grain bullet in its usual 1-10" twist. IIRC, Ackley's books were the source of that info.

$1500 seems kinda high to me, even for a showroom-condition take-down example. I'm no authority on the matter, though--but I am reflexively cheap on used gun pricing. Collectors overall strike me as being on a very different page of the book than I'm reading from.

[0802]

Thanks -- I'll take experience over inkstains on paper any day in this area. My 48th Lyman is where I was drawing from regarding the 1:14 being introduced for 100 grain bullets.

Anyone have any experience shooting a 1:10 with the lighter bullets? Pb and Js both?

To be clear, the 99 in question is NOT a takedown (I wish it were). If it were a take down, I'd be much more serious about a purchase. For now, all I do is look at it as I leave their range.

Truly, I'm looking for a 250 that would match the era of my 1955ish 300 Sav 99F. I suppose I would sacrifice matching "eras" for a twist rate that is more versatile.

Josh

[felix]

When any gun becomes classified as art rather than as a shooting device, I cringe immediately. I am not willing to pay for art as much as for good engineering. When they both come together, the object gets into a price range I am not willing to pay, but would enjoy seeing in some sort of a collection hall. Tulsa museums are top notch in this arena and deserve patronage whenever one is in town. ... felix

[stocker]

I think the change to 1/10 came in the early to mid 50's. I have had some 1/14's that would shoot 100 grain well and some that wouldn't. Not all makes of 100 grain bullets would work in any of them. If I recall the Speer flat base was generally most likely to work.

I believe 99 prices are somewhat ( a lot???) higher in the U.S. than in Canada. Given the description you provide and assuming it's not something special in terms of model rarity that rifle would only bring 600-700 dollars tops here.

The Savage forum on the 24 hr campfire site could give you a reality check.

[Bret4207]

For $1500.00 it'd better be in showroom condition with factory engraving and primo wood. Even for a takedown $850.00 would be high around here. In the condition you describe it sounds more like an honest hunters rifle whic means more like $600.00 tops.

[Rrusse11]

Hiya Gents,
LTNS! Been lost to the world of shotgunning, 3-400 rnds a week at the trap range has been keeping me busy on my Ponsness reloaders, and I got WAAAAAAAAY to many shotguns, so I'm still throwing lead, {:o).
But I just bought a 250 Savage reamer off Ebay, and I'm eyeing off a 25-20 Marlin barrel that should plug in to a Marlin 336. Brophy lists the twist as 1:12 for the 25-20, a 35Rem bolt should take the cartridge base, and the COAL of the Savage should be just fine in the 336 action. Whatcha' think?
Cheers,
R*2

[KCSO]

That's a way high price. The last one I had was a takedown with a mint barrel and 60% blue and I let it go for $650. That included the original peep sight.

[hydraulic]

Sold mine for $400. Hauled it around to gun shows for a year before I got that.

[Rrusse11]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85896409
Here's one for half that,,,,,,,, run a search, half a dozen on offer.
Cheers,
R*2

[C A Plater]

My 99 .250 is 1955 production and it has the 14" twist.

[Bret4207]

R2!!!!! Wherenhell ya been boy?!?!?! Good to see ya! A 250 Savage in a 336? Only way to know is to try. Don't know if it'll handle long 100 grainers with a 25/20 twist.

[0802]

R2 -- thanks for the link -- I look from time to time on gunbroker and gunsamerica, $795 for an unaltered 250 takedown is good for what I normally see.

[Rrusse11]

Bret,
Nice to see you too man! Wow, this has place has grown. Lookin' after my aged blind father and hooked on dusting claybirds has kept me busy. And I gave the computers a long break this summer. I've acquired a taste for SKB/Ithaca over/unders, so that's been keeping me broke.
The Savage 250 looks to be an ideal cartridge for the Marlin, and from everything I've seen so far is an efficient, accurate round. Marlin's spec for the twist is 1:12 which according to Greenhill should stabilise a 100grainer, and with Al telling us he CAN get 120gr jacketed to work in a 1:14, 1:12 should have no problem with a high velocity bullet.
Cheers,
R*2

[9.3X62AL]

I think I was unclear previously--sorry for that. The 1-14" twist in my 99 WILL NOT stabilize either the 117 grain Hornady RN (the shortest "heavy" 25 caliber bullet I have, for the 25-35) at 2400 FPS, nor would it stabilize the NEI 114 grain cast flatnose at 1600-1800 FPS. Both projectiles produced oblong holes in targets downrange and grouping better described as "patterns". Sierra 120 grain boat tails went sideways at 2200-2400 FPS.

100 grain bullets/boolits shoot WONDERFULLY, though. 100 grain Sierra flatbase spitzers at 2700 FPS will do 1.25" at 100 yards, which is my best with irons at that distance. The rifle and load may be better, I'll have to borrow the younger eyes of nephews or daughters to verify that. NEI #19 (100 grain RG-4 imitator, the "#" may be wrong) does very well at 1600-1800 FPS, well under 1" at 50 yards if the driver steers it and can hit 100% on our range's 200 meter dinger plate (~12" square) with proper navigation.

I have heavily pondered the re-tubing of my shot-out Rem 788 in 22-250 to 250 Savage, or some other project to attain a bolter in 250 Savage. I would opt for the 1-12" twist, because I don't think the stock 250's boiler room matches up well with the 115-120 grain bullets. If 115-120 grain bullets/boolits were my targeted weight, I would opt for the 257 Roberts or the 25-06, and install a 1-9" twist. Some people whose opinions I respect have stated that their experiences with 257 and 25-06 are that the typical 1-10" twists don't reliably stabilize all 115-120 grain 25 caliber bullets.

I also like 2700-2800 FPS muzzle velocities in a deer rifle--this velocity ranges well at reasonable hunting distances (to 300 yards) with spitzer bullets. John Barsness in "Handloader" has spoken of this same preference in print recently, and it is a practice I have used for 20+ years in my game rifles with the j-words. The 250 Savage gets there with 100 grain bullets at pressures that won't strain the 99 a bit.

[Rrusse11]

"I think I was unclear previously--sorry for that" , AL

Al,
No need to be sorry, my mistake, I misread it. Nevertheless I might have a chance stabilising the 117gr with a 1:12, and like you believe a 100gr at ~2750 would make an excellent deer round. Alliant lists a load of 40gr of Rx19 with a 100gr spitzer doing 2855fps at 43,400CUP , within the top limits of a 336 action.
Dunno' what I need it for, this year's venison addition to the freezer was at about 15' with the Marlin 1894CB in 357, :-D.
Cheers,
R*2

[9.3X62AL]

The opposite end of the spectrum is borne out by the 25-35 WCF, where the 117 grain RN is run through a 1-8" twist at its 2200 FPS velocity level. Probably too much of a good thing. In my Ruger 77R in 6.5 x 55, its 1-9" twist stabilizes 4 different 140 grain spitzers very well, and shoots all 4 into 1" or less at 100 yards. From this performance I derive my view that a 1-9" twist in the 257 Bob or 25-06 might be the best route to take for the heavy bullets in those calibers.

[6pt-sika]

25-35 WCF, where the 117 grain RN is run through a 1-8" twist at its 2200 FPS velocity level. .

Personally I would opt for this in the Marlin 336 over the 250 Savage .

Might even go so far as to have it cut 25-35 AI . [smilie=1: