30-30 to 219 Zipper....NOT!

[rbertalotto]

Well.....Trying to convert 30-30 brass to 219 Zipper is a lesson in frustration! O must have used a dozen different dies trying to find a combination that would reform 30-30 brass to 219 Zipper. Annealing between each step....

No Joy!

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/rvb1001rbertalotto/Stevens%2044/DSC_5656_zps925a132b.jpg

But I had a great day yesterday as my 25-35 Winchester brass showed up..............Easy! A little lube and into the 219 Zipper resizing die, trim to length and VOLA!

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/rvb1001rbertalotto/Stevens%2044/DSC_5690_zps2ae13593.jpg

Perfect 219 Zipper Brass!

I took the Stevens 44 1/2 to the range with both the 38-55 barrel that I just got back from being rebored, rifled and chambered from 32-40 to 38-55 and the 219 Zipper barrel.

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/rvb1001rbertalotto/Stevens%2044/DSC_5593_zpsaf631649.jpg

And my "new to me" Unertl 10X scope that I bought off eBay also showed up yesterday...(Christmas came early for me!)

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/rvb1001rbertalotto/Stevens%2044/DSC_5609_zps972406d2.jpg

I'll post a few target that the 219 shot in the next post..............

[rbertalotto]

Here are a few targets I shot with the 219 Zipper barrel. The 38-55 did awesome also, but I didn't pull the targets and stapled other on top....:o

The 38-55 was shooting cast 250 grain bullets over 9g of Unique, a load that has not disappointed in any of my 38-55 rifles. And it didn't disappoint in the Stevens!

But the 219 Zipper was fantastic!

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/rvb1001rbertalotto/Stevens%2044/P1040156_zps7e28b5aa.jpg

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/rvb1001rbertalotto/Stevens%2044/P1040155_zpse41b2848.jpg

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/rvb1001rbertalotto/Stevens%2044/P1040154_zpse40565ab.jpg

I'm going to write a whole article on my web page about this rifle and how I came to own it and the work that has been done to it....Stay Tuned!

[Tatume]

Hi Roy,

Beautiful gun!

Are you using Imperial Die Wax when you try to form the 219 Zipper cases? If not, it may help.

Take care, Tom

[Tatume]

Hi Again Roy,

I'm adding a 348 Winchester barrel to my CPA Stevens 44-1/2. I haven't fully decided on the configuration yet. At the moment I'm leaning towards 26" full round and tapered. I think I'm going to put a non-traditional rear sight on it, perhaps a Skinner. It will be a couple of months before I place the order, and I'll work out the details in that time.

Take care, Tom

[rbertalotto]

More pictures of the Stevens 44 1/2 here:



http://s964.photobucket.com/user/rvb1001rbertalotto/media/Stevens%2044/DSC_5601_zpsdbaf813c.jpg.html?sort=6&o=17

[rbertalotto]

Hi Tom,

Yes, I always use Imperial Wax. It's simply not worth the effort when 25-35 Winchester brass is easily obtained and not expensive and so easily formed. But I did buy 20 NOS 219 Zipper cases off eBay for $65.....$3.25 each...YIKES!

[Ramar]

Looking forward to reading you article. Keep us informed. Great rifle and really enjoy your photography and website.
Ramar

[DHurtig]

For a guy who loves single shots, that XXX gun porn right there. Love it, love it, love it, Dale

[EDG]

You need several intermediate dies to step down .30-30 to .219.
Try a 7mm Waters and 25-35 first.

[uscra112]

I've done .219 from .30-30 with no trouble. I anneal after I shrink 'em, though.

[Viper225]

Kinda reminds me of 30-30 to 6mm Bullberry Imp.

My 6.5 X 30 JDJ is a walk in the park compaired to the 6 Bullberry Imp.

Bob

[richhodg66]

I thought about trying to make .22 Savage Highpower cases from .30-30 but chickened out and just bought some .25-35 brass instead. Glad I did, with some mink oil for lube, they were very easy to make .22 HP cases from.

[elk hunter]

I bought a set of RCBS dies to make 219 Zipper cases from 30-30 thinking I would fire-form them in my Highwall Improved Zipper. The cases formed nicely, but most split at the shoulder even when properly annealed, so I started step forming them using several different sizing dies which worked well.

I haven't shot that rifle in years, guess I should get it out and play with it.

[Bob Busetti]

I made my Zipper from 30/30 brass, not too much trouble. Then someone gave a lot of 25/35 cases, no trouble at all. My hiwall likes 28.0 4895 with 50 gr vmax.
Bob

[Reverend Al]

I've formed .22 HP Savage and .25-35 WCF from 30-30 without any troubles either ... but I found the secret through trial and error. If you fire form the .30-30 cases in a .32-40 WCF first and get rid of the shoulder and make the brass into a taped case without a shoulder they will easily form down to .22 HP (or .219 Zipper) or .25-35 WCF without wrinkles. I didn't have any trouble with "shoulder splits" on firing either ... getting rid of the shoulder first and getting the case "tapered" make all the difference.
(As mentioned though, if you have a 7x30 Waters die set it is best to run the cases down in progressive steps ... from .32-40 down to 7x30, then to .25-35 and then again to .22 HP (or Zipper) ...)

[gemihur]

Try getting .405 Win to a 257 GNR sometime. Reeder provided 3 neck dies to accomplish this. First to .32, then to .28, and finally to .25!
A real barn-burner, tho... outta a 14" barrel.
I've long since let that one go and have resigned to use .444 Marlin cases for parents of my wildcats. Much easier to find!

[BigEyeBob]

Lovely rifle and the bonus is it shoots .

[TCLouis]

That 44 1/2 is beautiful, what a fine single shot should be.

I get to 219 Donaldson in 3 steps with a die made for me by John Hannah back in the 60s.

If I am careful, I get NO losses.

[Earlwb]

Those are some fine looking rifles there for sure. You are a lucky guy. Yeah if I remember correctly, they used some forming dies to make the .219 cases. There may be a trick or technique to it. Maybe not anneal for every step. That would leave the brass a little more stiff and less likely to collapse or buckle up on you.

[country gent]

You need to work down in several steps I believe the rcbs die set for this is 4 or 5 forming dies. Another thing to try is 7-30 waters instead of 30-30. Forming down can get tricky as metal flows in some wierd patterns. I normally have best luck on case forming pushing shoulder back to new spot or a little below leaving neck at full caliber. then necking in steps down. last is a final forming of the shoulder. Going from 30 cal -22 cal necks will thicken alot requiring neck turning or reaming also.Sometimes an annealing may be needed part way thru the process.

[lotech]

I used to form a good bit of Zipper brass for a Krag, 2 High Walls, a Rem. rolling block, and a Rem. Hepburn. It was worth the investment (don't recall the cost thirty years ago) to buy a set of RCBS form dies. Seems there were two or three dies prior to full-length sizing in the .219 die. Granted, it's easier to form using .25-35 brass. I bought multiple boxes of Win. .25-35 brass at an auction. It worked much better than once-fired .30-30 brass, but .30-30 will certainly do. If I had it to do over again and was restricted to .30-30 brass, I would use new brass only.

As I recall, reformed .219 Zipper cases were the only ones I ever annealed. The .219 was great fun at the time, but it's another cartridge I don't miss.

[jimofaz]

+1 on: "I anneal after I shrink 'em, though." Going by their color, the pictured collapsed cases look like they were possibly over-annealed. Can't go by color alone, but they look kinda dark. If you can two-finger pinch the round case mouths to an oval shape, this is the likely cause. May have also been too much lube applied on those neck dents. The comment about using intermediate form dies is also a good one. I too have made .219 Zip brass from .30-30 with no problems. If you have access to new .25-35 Win brass, so much the better. Graf's just got a shipment in from Hornady. No intent to criticize & hope this helps.