resizing .270 to 7.65 Belgium tips needed

[eli]

I have some .270 Win. brass headed my way and I want to resize it to 7.65 for my Belgium Mauser, a FN m1935. I haven't done this caliber/brass combination before and I'd like to hear from people who have experience with this conversion. So far my only resizing has been with .284 Win. to 7.5 Swiss and that was over a year ago, so I'm trying to be cautious as I go.

The brass is range pickup and I will most likely anneal it in a lead pot after de-priming and cleaning by washing.

I will use a Lee die set for sizing and a Lee Classic Loader for future reloads.

By-the-way, I will be using a GC Lee mold for this rifle, though at the moment, the model/weight info. elude me.

Finally, what other military calibers are suitable for the .270 case?

Cheers

[Buckshot]

.................I've used 30-'06 and 8x57 to make 7.65 Arg and 30-'06 to make 7x57. For the 270 I'd run it into a -'06 die first. I wouldn't anneal until you're done. Be sure to lube inside the caseneck before starting. Lot's of trimming afterward. I used a RCBS casetrimmer with a drill motor and it was STILL a lot of trimming.

Others you can make from the 270 is 8x57, 7x57 and 6.5x55. In the later the base will be a few thou undersized but it's no big deal. Wrap a couple wraps of scotch tap around the case above the rim to hold it centered in the chamber. Once expanded, remove the tape, neck size and final fireform and you're good to go.

Correctly headstamped and ready to go 7.65x53 cases from Graf & son is readily avail for comparable prices. I don't think I jump through all the hoops, but there isn't really anything wrong with it if you want to .

...............Buckshot

[JCherry]

Eli,

I use .270 brass for 7.65X53, 7X57 and 8MM Mauser. Like Buckshot said the trimming is a fair amount of work but with any electric motor hook up for your trimmer it goes pretty well, if you have a little time and patience.

Like Buckshot said I would not anneal until after you resize as you may buckle some of the cases when sizing.

I normally first trim the .270 case to the base of it's neck then size the .270 in a FL 7.65X53 die. I then do a final trim to length afterwhich I anneal the case neck/shoulder using a propane torch. I don't worry that much about the exact color but just heat the neck of the case as I hold the case head and turn by hand. When the "color line" reaches just below the shoulder I drop the case into a bucket of water.

I never had any luck annealing with molten lead as it allways was more of a problem removing bits of lead that stuck to the neck of the case. I was probably doing something wrong.

Cases I've made as described above seem to work just fine.

I normally find so many once fired .270 cases that it makes me think that all .270 shooters do not reload.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[Larry Gibson]

Best is to get a forming die. They are pretty inexpensive, I use the one for 8x57 to initially form and cut off cases. That gives a good basic case to form 8x57, 7.65, 7x57, or the 6.5x55 or 57. The preformed cases are simply then run through a FL die, trimed and annealed.

As Buck shot says, best to size first in '06 die if your going to use the regular die. Then remove the decapping/expander rod. The 270 case will jam up into it at the top if you don't. Back die out 1 turn from shell holder to leave the case headspace a little long. Form the cases using a very light coat of lube. I use pure lanolin (available at health food stores) as a lube. Form slowly and watch for wrinkled necks or collapsed shoulders. Cut off excess brass to within a few thousenths of final trim length. Put the decappaer/expander back in the FL die. Trim one case to .1 below max aol of case. Adjust the FL die so that when that case is sized you can just feel the bolt close on it. The headspace of your cases will then be adjusted to the headspace of your rifle. Lube, inside of case mouth also, and resize the cases. Trim to final OAL and anneal if necessary (probably will give much greater case life if you do).

Note on the Lee dies. It is common belief that the 7.65 Belgian and the 7.65 Argentine are the same cartridge. I do not believe they are. The headspace on belgian chambers is usually about .01 longer and the groove depth is usually 3.14-.316 instaed of the .312 of the Argentines. Lee originally made their 7.65 to Belgian specs but after the large number of Argentine rifles imported recently there were numerous complaints that the Lee dies wouldn't size the case enough to chamber. The complaints were correct as the Lee FL die sized cases to the longer Belgian specs. Lee has subsequently changed there dies to Argentine specs. Thus beware that if you FL your cases in the Lee FL die with the shell hold against the bottom of the die you may be setting the shoulder back too far.

I generally don't form the cases any more out of '06 brass. With the availability of new commercial 8x57 cases I use those. Then it's just run the case into the FL die, trim and load. All the other steps are not necessary.

Larry Gibson

[eli]

Thanks guys for the responses. I hope to run through some brass by this next weekend and I'll let you know how it goes.

Originally, I had bought some 100 pieces of 30-06 brass for resizing to this caliber, but I also had some Hornaday 7.65 x 53 ammo (stamped "Frontier") on hand and still have a box or two unfired plus brass from the same lot that I ran through my Mauser last year, so I never bothered. Now that I've got some .270 available I'll use that and save the 30-06 for that caliber. I don't have a .270 and unless someone gives me one, most likely never will, so like the Win .284 turned into 7.5 Swiss, I don't have to worry about 06 head-stamp confusion. I know the difference between the .270 case and the 7.65 is huge, but before I go and tell myself I'd never mistake one for the other, I am reminded of the warnings about 12ga - 20ga blow-ups.

I'll also plan to mike some of the spent Mauser brass and see how these numbers compare to the Lee specs, before and after sizing. The FL dies are new and the Classic Loader is old so I am hoping any differences in standards, will be negated by neck-sizing the brass after the initial sizing operation, reloaded brass has gone through my firearm once, having been effectually fire-formed.
Hopefully that will take care of any shoulder placement issues.

Cheers

[Larry Gibson]

eli

Sounds like you've a good plan that will lead to success. Please let me know what the difference (cartridge headspace) between the FL sized cases and the fired ones from the Belgian mauser. Also the groove depth if you slug the bore. Thank you.

Larry Gibson

[KCSO]

I use to do this and quit, I buy the proper brass from Graf's and here's why...

A form die will set you back the price of 100 fresh new brass cases. Your brass will have the proper headstamp for the caliber and more and more I hesitate to load into mis marked cases as on at least two occasions my Son in Law has grabed the wrong ammo and tried to froce it into the wrong gun. I have on my bench the remains of a Remington 742 270 that someone forced a 308 in to and fired. The same would be pretty easy with a reformed 7.65.
The only saving grace is that with cast bullets you are not as likely to blow up a gun or injure a shooter. As much as it is tempting to use up the 270 brass i would opt for Graf's.

[eli]

Kcso, I did consider Graf's brass at one point, using correct brass is indeed preferable, but whenever I was ready to buy some, they were out. After about four attempts, I stopped looking to Graf for their branded brass.

Combined with the fact that I was also reading a lot of reports posted by reloaders that suggested the Graf's brass was less than could be desired in quality and case life, and their opinions that .284 Win was a stronger/better case for this load, I took a decision to use .284 Win (and GP11, if Berdan primers were available) for the 7.5 Swiss.

The decision to use 06 brass for 7.65 x 53 was taken for basically the same reasons and was only altered because of the availability of free .270 brass, which is a better choice concidering the rifles I own or am likely to aquire.

I do plan to paint the case-heads to help with ID but I don't give out ammo, period, so I think the chances for a ka-boom from these reloads is too remote to be overly concerned with this point.

Larry, I'll see if I can slug this rifle sometime soon.

Cheers

[jonk]

I have found that with some brass types, because of thicker brass in the center of the case, I've had to neck ream to allow easy chambering. Your mileage may vary depending on chamber dimensions, dies, brass thickness, bullet diameter, etc.

[EDG]

I have formed quite a few 7.65 cases from both 30-06 military and 270 brass. Both work well though the .270 takes less effort since the neck is small enough to clear the die neck.

There are several bugaboos to watch out for as mentioned above.

1. Dies don't always match the rifles headspace. My Lee die is .010 longer than my RCBS dies.
The RCBS dies match 2 M91 and 1 98/09 Argentine rifles. One Argentine 98/09 rifle's headspace is approximately .030 longer than the RCBS sizer. I also have an ancient CH form die that is dangerous. It gives headspace about .030 shorter than the RCBS sizer. The CH sizer was was made during the era of earlier owner and not the current owner. I have an old set of Pacific dies in the attic that also give excessive headspace.
I consider the RCBS dies the correct length since they match 3 or 4 rifles exactly and they also match a Wilson case headspace gauge. Factory loaded Norma ammo is a match to both the Wilson and RCBS tools.

2. Trimming is the real PIA. I have tried a variety of methods.
A. Trim die and hack saw I don't care for. Lots of work and it chews up the die unless you put a washer on top to protect it. Then you have more to trim later.
B. Tubing cutter and spin the case with a drill motor---takes some practice but is workable but too much work for large batches.
C. Cut a hacksaw blade off and use in a saber saw with the trim die. Not too bad but still not for me
C. Trimming about .300 off with a Forster trimmer and a drill motor for power - works but still to much work and throws a lot of shavings off.
D. Use a Wilson trimmer case holder in a 5C collet with a stop. Fast and accurate but you need to own a lathe.

3. Measured over the rim original 7.65 brass is about half way between the .30-06 and the 6.5X55 in diameter. Original brass fits a M98 bolt face better. It does not matter much in an M91.