G2 Contender extractor is .025 higher than breech!

[ohland]

Now that Wisconsin deer season has pretty much sputtered out, my Dad tried to fit his new T/C G2 (Springfield, MA) 22LR Match barrel on his G2 frame. We chalked up an earlier failure for that barrel to close on the fact it was in a G1 frame (flat sided).

No holy joy, barrel closes down until it is about 1/8th inch away from closing, then it stops. Didled around with a Rochester, NH 22 Hornet G2 barrel, and I know it works. After some haphazard measurements, the barrel lugs are close (within a few thous, probably my error), I looked at the extractor on the 22 Hornet, and it is worn from near the base of the extractor up to the chamber.... I checked the 22LR barrel, and the extractor sits .025 above the barrel. Checked a Springfield, MA 7-30 G2 barrel, which works, and that extractor is flush with the barrel.

Has anyone had an issue like this? Eventually, I will drive out the roll pin and try mounting the barrel sans extractor.

:coffeecom

[cheetah]

The barrel should fit any Contender frame. It might need some finesse for that perfect bolt-release feeling but it should physically mate. Does the extractor stick out evenly or just at the bottom and lean back in towards the top? Even a bent extractor can be crushed closed but it must go flush into it's recess.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i would just take out the extractor out and see if the barrel locks up if this is a new to you barrel
i might just have the wrong extractor in it of crud in the slot ? its a place to start

[ohland]

The barrel should fit any Contender frame. It might need some finesse for that perfect bolt-release feeling but it should physically mate. Does the extractor stick out evenly or just at the bottom and lean back in towards the top? Even a bent extractor can be crushed closed but it must go flush into it's recess.

It never closes- the extractor sits out evenly. The extractor sits out even when the barrel is NOT in the frame.

[bosterr]

I've had several barrels like this, but in all cases they were aftermarket. It's a pretty easy fix, remove the extractor and polish the surface that faces the frame. I use 320 grit emory paper on a piece of thick glass. Apply downward pressure with your thumbnail being careful to keep it flat. Some need more polishing than others. Blacken with a black marker and re-install and check for interference. As stated before, check for crud in the recess first.

[ohland]

Ordered my set of roll pin punches. When they get here, I'll unship the extractor, check the cut (any swarf or burr), then its on to facing the extractor down.

It doesn't bind. It is just high. Go figure.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

you can use a small allen wrench or nail to push the pin out

[ohland]

check for interference. As stated before, check for crud in the recess first.

On a brand spankin' new G2 barrel straight from the factory, there should be no crud. BUT a little TLC beats out the aggravation of shipping it back. I want to use the correct punch to reduce any banging on the barrel lug. Not worried about compromising structural integrity, just don't want any scratches...

[ohland]

Well, I got a reply from T/C support, offering to pay for return of the barrel. I declined at this point, because if it is the extractor, then that is a simple fix. Roll pin punches are inbound from Brownells as we speak. If I drop the extractor, but still can't close the barrel, there is something that is more wrong than what I want to fool with. Though I am a pretty good fool, or so I have been assured most energetically, at times...

:coffeecom

[bosterr]

I'm pretty sure I used a 3D finish nail that I filed the point off, but a set of punches would have been nice to have. A friend of mine bought a new MGM custom barrel in stainless .357 that wouldn't close by just a tiny amount like you described and he was so PO'd that a new barrel could be defective like this. Of course you would think QC would catch such an easy to see imperfection, just run your finger over the extractor for an easy and quick check. Just like mentioned earlier, I removed the extractor and the barrel closed with the nice snap action like you'd expect. I also had a barrel that the chamfer on the lug itself needed a lick with a file on the upper end of the chamfer, it was just too close to the face of the frame .Let us know how you make out.

[ohland]

Well, my Grace roll pin punches arrived today. Put the 22LR Match barrel in an old Stanley wood working vise with particle board jaws, and snapped the 1/16 punch off about the third strike. Now I know exactly why they have roll pin starter punches... Short so they don't snap off...

Finished up with the stub of the punch, dropped the extractor (man, it did NOT want to come out!), dropped it into a G1 frame (37xxxx) and it locked up like a flucking bank vault. Ka-flukin-chunk!

Measurements-
Rim c-bore for the 22LR - .043
Rim thickness from front of extractor to bottom of c-bore for 22LR case - .060 (Houston, we have a problem, extractor rim is @ .020 higher than chamber c-bore!)
Extractor cut in barrel - .085
Thickness of extractor hook - .110

91716

So we have a soup sandwich. Extractor C-bore is .020 too thick, and total thickness of extractor is .025 higher than breech. Gonna wait for dad to get back from deer hunting and ask what he wants to do.

I'll ask T/C how thick the extractor should be, and if the extractor rim should be @ .040, then I will carefully emery cloth / fine grit sandpaper the front of the extractor down @ .020 and get it to match the chamber. Then I can slim down the back about .005 so it is flush.

:coffeecom

[bosterr]

Now that I see your pic, there's something else going on. The groove in the extractor for the case rim is about the same amount too high as the rest of the extractor is above the breech face of the barrel. The extractor should absolutely slide VERY easily in and out. You said "man, it did NOT want to come out". The barrel lug has the groove for the extractor machined into it before it's welded onto the barrel. You might try looking for something inside the extractor tunnel under good light. If the extractor came out that hard, you should see some sort of rub mark in the bluing on it. I would not take any material off the face of the extractor at this point.

[ohland]

No scratch mark below the barrel in the tunnel, the extractor shows no rubbing on the sides along the length. There does seem to be a slight "hook" at the front tip, where the extractor pushes against the frame to push the extractor back when opening the Contender. I had to use a standard screwdriver, then one jaw of a crescent wrench to get enough leverage under the extractor to remove it. But when the extractor is seated, there was little or no resistance in it's normal travel.

Looked at the extractor, saw no noticeable scrapes, the extractor cut in the barrel has no flash / burrs / swarf / rubs. Sometimes the extractor has a little "catch" up at the front, probably that "hook", dunno.

Again, if the front edge of the extractor hook was .020 thinner, we might not be talking about this.

[bosterr]

It just so happens I have a 10" 22 LR Match barrel. The extractor on mine stands proud by about I would guess .005. There is a scuff mark about the middle where it contacts the frame, but it's only for about 1/16 of an inch and that appears to be exactly like yours in the photo. Never caused a problem with closing. This is a stainless Rochester N.H. barrel. You say that the recess is .085 deep and the extractor is .110 that tells me that the entire .025 difference needs to be removed from the back side. It would seem like that amount would make the portion of the extractor that engages the case rim even with the rest of the rim recess. Just for grins and giggles, you could try lightly tapping the extractor into the recess with a brass punch then try to get a measurement of what is above flush.

[bosterr]

One more thing to check. I had a firing pin bushing work loose and cause it to be above flush of the face of the frame more than usual. The screw that keeps it tight is under the hammer. Once it's loose, crud can work it's way in there. It happened to one of my 4 frames. This bushing on all of my frames is still just above flush by just a couple thousands. Yours may be closing just enough to cause that small scuff on your extractor by the firing pin bushing.

[ohland]

Stoned both angles on the front of the extractor (the part that pushes on the frame). Then I broke the angle some. The extractor slides much better when it is all the way forward. There still is an odd "bump" in the tunnel about 3/4 of the way forward, a slight jiggling of the extractor side to side easily gets past it.

Wonder if prying the extractor out smoothed some some machining errata down. Looking in the tunnel shows no discernible rough spots under the barrel or on the sides of the extractor tunnel....

:coffeecom

[bosterr]

I wonder if when the lug was welded on something blew into the tunnel. I realize you're working with a blued extractor. Do you think if you painted the area on the extractor with a felt tip marker where you think it's rubbing, then you could polish that area? Is the extractor closer to being flush to the end of the barrel yet?

[ohland]

Do you think if you painted the area on the extractor with a felt tip marker where you think it's rubbing, then you could polish that area? Is the extractor closer to being flush to the end of the barrel yet?

There was just the smallest rubbing at the tip, which I just stoned. There is no other rubbing, except on the rear face of the extractor.

The extractor will never be flush with the barrel face until I machine off .020. My dad has a 22LR chamber reamer, I'm waiting for T/C to tell me if they have a .085 thick extractor that they could send. Much cheaper than shipping the whole barrel back n forth. Really.

Thought about the milling operation. Since the chambering reamer can make the extractor rim depth to match the rim in the chamber, I can stick the extractor on a 1-2-3 block, with the rear face up, then mill it down. Milling the forward face would have been a bit more difficult, believe me....

[bosterr]

It sounds like you have things under control. Back in my handgun silhouette days in the early 80's, I sent barrel after barrel back in for mostly replacement, from a problem like yours to crowns that were so crooked, it looked like they were hacksawed (several 7 MM TCU). I would send a frame in just for a broken hammer spring, which occurs frequently if fired a lot. Then I got tired of this and started ordering parts to repair myself. Back then they would send you anything you wanted, I'll bet not so today. What few TC barrels I had, I sold to be replaced with SSK and MGM. No more super long throats that TC has become notorious for. The only TC I have now is the 22 LR Match which does shoot better than I can shoot it.

Keep us posted on the results. I would sure like to read a happy ending to this story.

[cheetah]

That's bad. Without a picture I never could have visualized the problem. I've had a bad bore back and forth to S&W three times in three months and can't believe they could ship something that wrong.
Sadly, on a new and warrantied high class item, I'd likely Dremel/file the back side of the extractor - knowing how poor Thompson Center and Smith and Wesson service is.

[FLHTC]

Check the protrusion of the end that exits the pivot lug. If that doesn't equal your other barrels, the slot thats cut in the bottom of the extractor post needs to be modified. It might be that the slot that floats on the roll pin, makes the extractor bottom too soon.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/ThompsonCenter-33531/ContenderPistol-G2-42291.htm

[ohland]

Check the protrusion of the end that exits the pivot lug. If that doesn't equal your other barrels, the slot thats cut in the bottom of the extractor post needs to be modified. It might be that the slot that floats on the roll pin, makes the extractor bottom too soon.[/url]

Um, perhaps the 2 hour drive through the snow/slush on I-90 last night has dulled my perception. The picture I posted is the extractor WITHOUT the roll pin installed. However, that would be another part of the problem solving approach to the Contender/Encore.

Contender/Encore will not close, barrel about 1/8 to 1/16 from closing.
Extractor too thick for extractor cut (measure cut and extractor)
Pin Slot on extractor is too short at rear (extractor fits cut, but will not go far enough forward to seat)
Bushing in back of frame extends too far forward. (thickness and cross pin slot correct)

I've not had to futz with the face bushing, as in this case, it is not the problem...

OBTW, that is shown as 1114, Firing Pin Bushing. Unfortunately, sold out in the link. Perhaps other models have them.

[FLHTC]

I measured the thickness on all my extractors on both Encore and Contender barrels and they measure .105 to .110 thick. Now if yours is the same, the problem isn't the extractor at all but the extractor cut in the barrel. That cut is made before the lug is welded on so the barrel should go back to wherever you purchased it. If you remove .025 from the front or back, the extractor is going to be quite thin and prone to breakage.

[ohland]

I measured the thickness on all my extractors on both Encore and Contender barrels and they measure .105 to .110 thick. Now if yours is the same, the problem isn't the extractor at all but the extractor cut in the barrel. That cut is made before the lug is welded on so the barrel should go back to wherever you purchased it. If you remove .025 from the front or back, the extractor is going to be quite thin and prone to breakage.

22LR is that stout that it requires an extractor with .110 thickness?

[FLHTC]

It doesn't matter how stout the cartridge is. If your extractor is too thin and it binds in cold weather when you close the action, you'll be wondering where it went. Then you'll have to thin the next extractor because you'll have the same problem.

[cheetah]

I don't want to take my two barrels apart to measure them directly but with my better eye I'll agree with your nominal numbers of .085" thick, (breech to muzzle), with about .050 as matching the barrel c'bore and the remaining .035 as the tab under the cartridge rim. Each fits flush in it's .085" recess. Until the .085/.110 discrepancy is resolved, any other causes are secondary.

You may well have an extractor intended for a different application. The fastest, cheapest way to explore is TC's chat line - their work day goes on til 8pm or so. I've had my difficulties with them but Alison is real, and very helpful. If I were them, I'd simply mail you a correct part.

Use this page and wait for the chat status to show up on the top right:
http://www.tcarms.com/contact

[FLHTC]

Ohland, I took two of my extractors out and the cut is .110 deep on both. I knew if the extractor was .110 and it sat flush, the cut had to be the same and it is to the .001.

[ohland]

Ohland, I took two of my extractors out and the cut is .110 deep on both. I knew if the extractor was .110 and it sat flush, the cut had to be the same and it is to the .001.

Thanks much. I was getting ready to measure another barrel to see the depth. I'll contact T/C for a return, as it is the barrel, not extractor, that isn't right.

[ohland]

Thanks much. I was getting ready to measure another barrel to see the depth. I'll contact T/C for a return, as it is the barrel, not extractor, that isn't right.

Sent a note yesterday and requested the return label. If it wasn't the depth of the extractor cut, I would have just machined the extractor.

[ohland]

This is a hopeful sign, it is no longer TC Level 1 responding, but RMA. Asking for the same info with the SAME template. My first request for an RMA was down in the message body. This time I added a "purpose" to my request (as was requested the first time), which IMHO is quite silly. I want the product to work as designed, not as built.

Please send me a pre-paid shipping label so I can return this T/C G2
Contender 22LR Match barrel, SKU 4220, ser (Axyz4220). The extractor cut
is not deep enough (.085"), so the extractor (.110" thick) prevents the
action from closing. Further, the rim cut depth on the extractor is
.020" higher than the chamber rim, so the extractor prevents any 22LR
round from seating in the chamber.

The purpose of the return is to have a barrel where:
Extractor is flush with barrel face (allows action to close)
Rim cut depth on extractor is same as rim cut depth in barrel (.043")

Did I miss something?

[smilie=b:

[Tatume]

Hi Ohland,

It's been my experience over the years that giving a detailed diagnosis can be counterproductive. My advice is to tell them "Barrel won't close, please fix." Let them figure out for themselves why it won't close.

Take care, Tom

[ohland]

"Barrel won't close, please fix."

That is why I actually followed the instructions and included the "Purpose" this time. After more thought, I'd agree with you and would have changed Purpose to "Barrel won't close, please fix"... This template is a mixed blessing, though it does ask for contact info, perhaps the only question is "What do you want done" instead of Purpose...

Other than the extractor, I like the way this barrel closes and locks in my G1 frame. If you are into Gun Porn, it sends a tingle up your leg when the action is snapped shut....

:coffeecom

[ohland]

Well, more progress. 3-5 days until I get the label.

:coffeecom

[Iowa Fox]

Keep us posted how this one plays out for you.

[ohland]

When the label arrives, I'll ship and post to CB.

:coffeecom

[ohland]

Got an email from S&W (_NOT_ T/C!) telling me that FedEx was expecting to deliver (a) 6 pound object on the 25th. Now I'm curious. The entire gun (barrel, frame, stock, forend) weighs how much?

Maybe they built a wooden crate for it....

:coffeecom

[goofyoldfart]

Oh boy, please post the results of this problem. I'm sitting on the edge of my chair waiting to find out what the answer is. God Bless to you and yours.
Goofy aka Godfrey

[ubetcha]

ME TOO. I'm interested in finding out what they fixed.

[Pinsnscrews]

Just a comment to be aware of:

Not all 1st gen TC Frames can accept G2 Barrels. Take my frame for instance. I can get the barrel to lock up just fine, good and snug and unlocks easily. However, the step in the bottom of the lug is preventing the barrel locking pins from equally sitting against the hammer block plate release. This is causing that plate to not completely release. This in turn interferes with the hammer drop, causing a misfire. It wasn't until I actually measured the frame that I realized the step on the lug extends past the bottom depth of the 1st Gen Barrel lug, and NOT a case of the front of the step being milled off as I had previously been informed. So to use the G2 barrels with my frame, I need to have that step at the back of the lug milled flush.