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Maximumbob54
12-21-2013, 02:53 PM
So I've been coating bullets for a while now and I'm in love with the idea and have no issue with the tumble methods as far as producing lead bullets that don't leave lead in the barrel no matter how hard they are pushed within reason of course. I've tried casting with plain old range scrap and a Lyman #2 alloy clone, I've tried water quenching them, and I've loaded them from mouse fart levels to magnums with AA #9 and 2400 at their max loads for a 158gr load.

BUT... :roll:

I'm getting questionable at best accuracy from most of them to downright deplorable accuracy. All and I mean ALL of my .38 special 158gr loads are just garbage to the point that a small batch I still have loaded up will have the bullets pulled and the powder salvaged with the bullets being melted back down. I would have better accuracy just throwing them by hand at the target. And yet that same exact bullet cast in the same exact batch was super accurate (at least to my abilities, bullseye shooters bite your tongues for now...) off a rest from a S&W M28-2 with a 4" barrel. Here are some of my pictures of accuracy testing with various loads all off a rest.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131221_122944177_zpshczxhajs.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131221_122944177_zpshczxhajs.jpg.html)

That center target is 24 shots fired from a 4" GP100 with matte black Harbor Freight over a Lee 356-120-TC sized to .357" after being coated. They drop at around .357" - .358" anyways so sizing them to .357" is pretty easy. They were loaded over a hot for .38 load of Titegroup since I have that powder on hand right now.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131221_121440711_zps2v0njhln.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131221_121440711_zps2v0njhln.jpg.html)

This was also from today's testing. The target on the left is with the Mihec 359-640 that drops a 158-160gr bullet and the target on the right is the 360-640 that drops close to the same bullet but at 150ish gr bullet. Neither one really did better than the other but I want to say the lighter bullet has the slight edge. But once again it's nothing exciting.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131214_093024254_zpszetjkamj.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131214_093024254_zpszetjkamj.jpg.html)

I loaded some AA #9 under Lee TL358-158-SWC epoxy coated all sized at .357" and shot them in various guns at 15 yards. As usual the M&P R8 is the lackluster performer at the bottom left. That gun's barrel seems to be made for plated and jacketed only as with either it's a laser beam and with lead or coated it's meh at best. The M28-2 was spot on on the top right but I need to click to the right. Go figure as soon as I aimed to the right I hit dead center. I doubt I could do that again so perfect if my life depended on it. Last up bottom right was the M66-2 which only got five shots as I was out of ammo at this point. The three touching each other were trying to hit the center. The other two were trying to correct my aim so again clicks are needed. I swear I will stop trying to swap sights on my guns some day and just leave them alone. Maybe I should just buy fixed sight guns...

This is the results from the .357 magnum loading fired from the 4" GP100 again at 15 yards:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131212_083116305_zps8afwdwhg.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131212_083116305_zps8afwdwhg.jpg.html)

And yet as soon as I switched over to the same bullets in a mild .38 special loading... Let's just say I didn't waste the electrons in a picture for that one. I was all over the target. There are too many maybe's and what if's to ramble through so I will just stick to that bullet and coating for .357 magnum loads as I'm sure it was capable of more accuracy than I could offer. But that was a mild magnum so next up will be a max'ed out 2400 load. After it's worked up of course. Oh, and not a bit of leading as usual.

I will stop for now as it's just a back and forth really of pretty decent but still not awesome with what the heck happened. So far the soup can SWC from Lee is the winner but only when pushed fast and hard. Everything else is kind of unimpressive at best and spew at worst. So I'm curious if anyone else wants to share their results with real testing. I think for the most part there is a growing larger every day group of us that can make a coated bullet that doesn't lead but is anyone finding anything that is very accurate?

dverna
12-21-2013, 05:21 PM
First, thanks for posting results. Even poor results tell us something.

As an ex-Bullseye shooter I liked your comment. We can be a bit arrogant about accuracy. But of course, a bullet that looks pretty and does not shoot is worthless for most shooters.

What I find perplexing is that the .38's normally shoot well and I would not expect "patterns" at 15 yards. Plus your bullet shot well when not PC'ed. Very strange.

Don Verna

TES
12-21-2013, 05:35 PM
The only thing I don't see is pictures of your bullets. I have coated about 50 ish thousand and there was a lot of trial and error getting the coating right. I have also used the HFPC (black) and threw it away after just 15 rounds. My barrel was coated in gunk that didn't come out easily.

popper
12-21-2013, 06:03 PM
91208
Due to old eyes I don't shoot @ 15 very often (did get some new glasses to try), these are HF white. The PX4 always leaded before. I did a fast fire mag dump (16 rnds, same load, etc.) from 15' at Thanksgiving and got mostly a 6" horiz string, ~2" high. I'm not a very good shooter but PC works.

Maximumbob54
12-21-2013, 06:17 PM
This is both my best and worst:

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131221_165828916_zps027tgufi.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20131221_165828916_zps027tgufi.jpg.html)

The .38 special and .357 magnum are loaded with that same bullet coated in two thin coats of battleship gray klass kote baked each time at 200ish degrees for 20 minutes. They are then sized to .357 as I feel they shoot better than when sized at .358 from previous testing. I've done .38's in both .357 and .358 with Titegroup, Unique, Power Pistol, Bullseye, and a couple others I hardly have any left of and they are all trash loads. No, that .38 isn't crimped as I missed that one.

C. Latch
12-21-2013, 06:25 PM
Hmm. If I was you and still had my .358 sizer I'd try a few of those and see if maybe the PC bullet needs to be a shade larger.

TES
12-21-2013, 06:37 PM
try my dripper method. put the mixture in a empty goof off can and drip the coat on to the bullet. Make sure you are drenching it so the sides get covered. This puts the coating on evenly and not as thick. I noticed that when thick the coating came off like icing off a cake. Didn't help accuracy at all. When super thin and the three coat one bake method was used it helped a lot for accuracy and OA thickness.

"So I tried the Alternate method with the Super Coat and it does not work with this coating....Sooo...here it is....

Do not tumble the bullets like the super coat.

Instead get a dripper bottle like a Goof Off can and put the mixture in the can.
Place your bullets standing ogive up on your screen and drip the coating onto the bullet.
(make sure that it is completely coated)
(Its a good idea to have a mason jar beneath the screen to catch the drippings so that you can reuse the overflow.)
Allow to air dry for a few seconds maybe 15 between coats.
then repeat dripping the PC on the bullets 2 more times.
Lastly bake one time for 15 minutes.
Done

(Also clean your dripper bottle / Nozzel after use as it will cause clogs if the PC dries inside)

If anyone thinks of a good name for it you own it.

TES"

Maximumbob54
12-21-2013, 06:37 PM
91208
Due to old eyes I don't shoot @ 15 very often (did get some new glasses to try), these are HF white. The PX4 always leaded before. I did a fast fire mag dump (16 rnds, same load, etc.) from 15' at Thanksgiving and got mostly a 6" horiz string, ~2" high. I'm not a very good shooter but PC works.

I assume at 165gr this is a .40SW PX4? What's the load used?

Maximumbob54
12-21-2013, 06:43 PM
try my dripper method. put the mixture in a empty goof off can and drip the coat on to the bullet. Make sure you are drenching it so the sides get covered. This puts the coating on evenly and not as thick. I noticed that when thick the coating came off like icing off a cake. Didn't help accuracy at all. When super thin and the three coat one bake method was used it helped a lot for accuracy and OA thickness.

"So I tried the Alternate method with the Super Coat and it does not work with this coating....Sooo...here it is....

Do not tumble the bullets like the super coat.

Instead get a dripper bottle like a Goof Off can and put the mixture in the can.
Place your bullets standing ogive up on your screen and drip the coating onto the bullet.
(make sure that it is completely coated)
(Its a good idea to have a mason jar beneath the screen to catch the drippings so that you can reuse the overflow.)
Allow to air dry for a few seconds maybe 15 between coats.
then repeat dripping the PC on the bullets 2 more times.
Lastly bake one time for 15 minutes.
Done

(Also clean your dripper bottle / Nozzel after use as it will cause clogs if the PC dries inside)

If anyone thinks of a good name for it you own it.

TES"

I did try that in an old Remoil bottle I cleaned out. I mixed once with acetone and once with LT both with the blood red powder from PBTP and I just made a mess. It would cling more here and there and I got way too much on the base. I tried it once with the HF black and while it worked I didn't find it worked any better than tumbling them. But what doesn't work for me may work for others.

Maximumbob54
12-21-2013, 06:44 PM
Hmm. If I was you and still had my .358 sizer I'd try a few of those and see if maybe the PC bullet needs to be a shade larger.

Are you saying step up to a 170 -180 gr mold? I would have to order one. I have three .358 sizers still.

C. Latch
12-21-2013, 07:08 PM
No, I'd use the same mold but just size to .358 instead of .357.

No idea if that will help, but I have a hard time believing it could hurt.\


edit: by 'a shade larger' I meant in diameter, not weight.