Kommiefornia cast

[drinks]

It appears Kommiefornia is or has banned all lead bullets for hunting.
I was looking at the Rotometals site, they have several low and moderate temperature alloys, most seem to be bismuth based.
Are any of the alloys legal in Kommiefornia?
Can useable bullets be cast from them?
Is the cost of the alloys so high it would be cheaper to buy lead free bullets?

[44man]

I would move out of the commie state first. Damned liberals with no knowledge, just feelings about a bird or mouse, whatever. I have never had a cast boolit stop in an animal so there is nothing for the birds to get sick on. Just politics and the dumbest on earth--movie stars.
Reagan and John Wayne exceptions but they are gone, best men ever, now there are *******.
Drinks, you live in TX, best state ever, stay home.

[drinks]

44, I am not going anywhere, but I was wondering if our fellow casters had any hope of being able to cast and use in hunting something other than machined non lead bullets.
Some pore people just cannot leave the sorry place.

[44man]

44, I am not going anywhere, but I was wondering if our fellow casters had any hope of being able to cast and use in hunting something other than machined non lead bullets.
Some pore people just cannot leave the sorry place.
Sadly, NO if they live in the commie state. Businesses are bailing left and right and it costs so much to live there that they are not poor. Gas to get to work is a years wages anywhere else. The only hope is the San Andreas fault. Crack sucker, CRACK!
Just want our friends to get out.

[monge]

no lead but they will sell us shrimp and fish from polluted china waters no enough profit in lead for corp. AMERICA!

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Well for a starter there is modern lead free pewter. I would want to have my own inpact bern to recover my projectiles. But in hunting.. how many shots does a rifleman need to harvest the need for a year ?
I have been recycling my same 10 pounds of lead now for near 14 years. I have lost a few over the time and fragmentation adds up so am down to about 9 pounds. 15 years ago I added to my "stash" to get to 10 pounds. Initially there would be an investment.. but you would still be ahead of the game.
Mike in Peru

[blikseme300]

Trying to explain to any LEO that your boolit does not contain any lead will probably cost you many 1000's of $$$. If I lived in Kommifornia I would either leave or use approved factory ammo to prevent any issues. Sad that the Golden State has sunk so low.

[weasel 21]

Sorry to say I live in this sorry state;Im escaping ASAP!

[cwheel]

When I cast in CA, I must have gone though thousands of lbs. of lead. And if I hadn't retired, escaped, moved, I'd still be casting lead there as long as I continued to breath. That doesn't solve any problems for our friends that are still there. Most at risk in my opinion is the .22 LR. Hard enough to get now, but can you imagine what it is going to cost for .22 lead free ?? Hope this isn't one area that the rest of the nation follows any time in the future. Barns now makes high dollar copper solids for reloading, but can you imagine the cost of a box of .22 LR in copper solids ?? It will be interesting to see how this shakes out in CA. One way or another hunters over there are going to have a round to fire during hunting season, but it's a sure thing ammo isn't going to get any cheaper there, or anywhere else soon. Can you imagine how expensive range time is going to get over there ?? Sure will thin out the people able to afford to target practice at the range.
Chris

[acsteve]

try tin a bit soft, but makes beautiful boolits

[merlin101]

Copper colored powder coat?

[Abenaki]

What is happening in here in California, is not about animals. But about total control.

You will only be allowed to use approved bullets to hunt with. The game wardens will destroy one of your expensive bullets to make sure that they do not have any lead. Or they can send them in to a lab for testing.

There is already rumblings with the anti's (communist). That copper bullets must be outlawed.....copper poisoning!

Next on the list is lead boolits for target shooting! And the closure of shooting ranges as toxic waste sites!


Take care
Abenaki

[bangerjim]

Lead, tin, and bismuth all look EXACTLY the same, so proving what you have in the field when you are stopped will be impossible and will leed to fines ..........and worse!

Best to use authorized Comifornia ammo, do not shoot any more, or join the BIG crowd of people and just move out of the left coast!

bangerjim

[mold maker]

Well outlawing lead in Ca, should make ammo more available else where. I feel for the left coast shooters, but just like the roads South from the snow belt, ya could/should have already left. There was plenty of warning.

[Whiterabbit]

Authorized bullets. They must be certified. So even if some random guy starts machining his own solid copper bullets, they are no good for hunting because they are not certified.

That being said, I do not plan on complying in non-condor zone areas. I will be casting zinc or shooting brass. The spirit of the law sucks, but the letter of the law is unacceptable.

[725]

Bill Weddle -- Don't count on it. Many of today's POlice are just as brain dead as the general population. A further question: What does Commiefornia do with electric cars when they ban lead?

[Whiterabbit]

they don't use lead, they are all lithium or nickel. My state is so ban-happy we even banned gay marriage. That's telling, that even the gays had to use the jury box to reverse the ballot box.

[Baja_Traveler]

Well, I for one will vote with my feet. The wife wont allow me to move (otherwise I'd be in Utah in a flat second) - but from now on all my hunting will be out of state. I've bought my last Commiefornia hunting license.

Think lead free rifle ammo is expensive? Try looking at shot shells! Upland hunting here will be virtually wiped out as well as hunting the muzzle loader season...

[cwheel]

I may be wrong, but I don't think there is a single ammo maker that makes " lead free " 22 ammo yet ?? Center fire, yes, but expensive. But that said, after the ban date, no 22 for sale in CA ?? Looks like the lawmakers in CA have a clear agenda, and not a good one. While living there for 57 years I noticed few of us were hunters and shooters compared to the general population. While there plenty of good hunters and shooters, what makes the news is the rather large urban crime problem. Population wants that to go away, or be better controlled, without spending more money for the cops to do so. Big problem in Sacramento when gun control issues come up. Second amendment is forgotten quickly, not enough shooters and hunters to influence the votes or put reps in place that can't be bought out when the second amendment issues are raised. Best of luck to those still there, keep up the fight. Worthy of concern of us who live outside of CA is that often laws passed there somehow migrate to other states, and CA leads the way. This fight is worth paying attention to even living outside of CA.
Chris

[Garyshome]

Just don't get caught!

[cwheel]

If I still had to live there, I'd be a +1 to that, still shoot all the lead I could cast.
Chris

[Whiterabbit]

Just don't get caught!

Given that a LOT of hunting is private property owners, its basically unenforceable and will not be followed. Only public land and guided hunters are stuck.

[44man]

It is gun control guys, nothing else. Back door Obuuumer junk.
Kaiforniaca liberal stuff is to make you a criminal for owning a gun or hunting. Just why do people in the socialist state vote in liberal progressives. Gay suck butt is what I say. If you worked hard, made money, you should give it all to the creeps that never worked a day. Me, LOOK DOWN THE BORE OF MY .500 sucker!

[Whiterabbit]

oh, this stuff goes beyond Obama. Was here before, will still be here after he goes. Can't blame it on that short timer. The gun ban folks here are in it for the long haul.

[quilbilly]

Looking at another thread on this site about an outfit machining 6.5 copper projectiles, it occurred to me that most "lead-free" projectiles could be defined as armor piercing by the feds. The feds came down on that outfit because they defined the 6.5's and other rifle calibers as "armor piercing" handgun projectiles. One way or another, the revolutionary marxists running the government have to get guns out of the hands of the peasants just like English did centuries ago prohibiting longbows in the hands of peasants and the Japanese prohibited peasants from touching swords. Nothing new in this world.

[turmech]

This may not directly have anything to do with the thread, but I won't ever by a Barns bullet (or Nosler anymore now that they are making more and more lead free offerings). Any success of such bullets only give the lawmakers justification in banning lead shot/bullets. I am not saying Barns directly helps out in the banning of lead, but I bet they don't mind it happening, and I would not be surprised if they provide evidence to them supporting the effectiveness of non lead bullets.

Lead shot has been banned on a federal level for many years for waterfowl hunting. I will never understand how shooting lead at a goose in a field is more harmful than shooting lead at a rabbit. Of course truth be told I can't recall one study which has evidence to say lead poisoning contributed to any animal deaths that were not actually shot with the lead.

[cobbmtmac]

I may be wrong, but I don't think there is a single ammo maker that makes " lead free " 22 ammo yet ?? Center fire, yes, but expensive. But that said, after the ban date, no 22 for sale in CA ?? Looks like the lawmakers in CA have a clear agenda, and not a good one. While living there for 57 years I noticed few of us were hunters and shooters compared to the general population. While there plenty of good hunters and shooters, what makes the news is the rather large urban crime problem. Population wants that to go away, or be better controlled, without spending more money for the cops to do so. Big problem in Sacramento when gun control issues come up. Second amendment is forgotten quickly, not enough shooters and hunters to influence the votes or put reps in place that can't be bought out when the second amendment issues are raised. Best of luck to those still there, keep up the fight. Worthy of concern of us who live outside of CA is that often laws passed there somehow migrate to other states, and CA leads the way. This fight is worth paying attention to even living outside of CA.
Chris

AB 711, introduced by Los Angeles area Assembly member Anthony Rendon, requires that non-lead ammunition be used in all hunting of mammals, birds, and other wildlife by July, 2019. The law also requires the state's Fish and Game Commission to certify a list of non-lead ammunition by 2014.

I'm not going to say this law will be over turned, but there is time. I think "cwheel" is spot on, not enough shooters and hunter to influence the vote. I know that some are putting up a fight. We do need the help of every Gun Loving Organization!

I'm 77 years old, born and raised here, retired and settle in, so I won't be moving out of state, besides I do like the place!

[turmech]

Thought I'd add this too for the posts that say how will they prove it lead or nontoxic alloys that look like lead. They make hand held meters that the DNR carry around here that will tell the difference.

[Whiterabbit]

Noone is fighting the law. I asked our GOC lobbyist that question very specifically. The answer was no, GOC is not fighting it. (who else will?)

#2 there is already a law stating all hunting bullets in CA must be expanding. So AP ammo is already banned. That's a non-issue. I would be shocked if a game warden cited anyone for a hardcast lead bullet as being non expanding. Pretty sure lead of any kind is considered expanding by the DFG.

#3 solid copper is not considered AP as per anyone's definition (copper beryllium yes, 100% copper, no). So Barnes bullets and E-tips etc are all OK. Free machining brass is not OK, even if it has the tip drilled out for an expanding nose, because even though it is AP, the drilled nose would make it expanding, but it's more than 1% lead. Switch the alloy to 360 (I think it's 360), and there is no longer any lead in the brass. Still armor piercing, but with the nose drilled out like a barnes or an E-tip it should be considered expanding and legal to hunt with in rifles. That has not happened here yet. I don't know if the existing brass HP bullets (monolithic, I think, and that outfit in South Africa) are free machining or alloy 360.

Bottom line, "armor piercing" is a red herring because we have 100% copper. The moment someone in some other state gets copper solids put on the federal ban for armor piercing materials, THEN all pistol hunting will be banned in California. rifle will still be OK so long as the barnes coppers are still considered expanding (though it would be re-classified as AP too). Until the ATF cracks down on them of course like they did for the barnes brass solids, for being AP and "possible" to load in pistol.

It's just one more step on the yellow brick road, but AP is not a full-stop yet.

[Jupiter7]

Actually lead free 22lr has been around a good while. Made from compressed metal powders. Very similar to frangible centerfire stuff.

[Whiterabbit]

Thought I'd add this too for the posts that say how will they prove it lead or nontoxic alloys that look like lead. They make hand held meters that the DNR carry around here that will tell the difference.

magnet for steel shot, or look at the shotshell to see if it has "hevishot" stamped into the side. Otherwise, it's a copper tip. If it looks like lead, it is not on the "approved" list. The composition is meaningless in California, it has to be APPROVED. The spirit of the law (ostensibly wildlife preservation) is not what matters, the letter of the law does not say lead-free, it says "approved" lead free. Not approved, it's a citation.

[turmech]

Most shotshell will loose all painted marking if carried in a field coat or gun bag in a short time. I hardly every carry the original box in the field for metallic or shotshell. I don't know how CA law is written or how it will be enforced. Just though I would mention the hand held scanners exist and can scan the alloy and display it composition.

[Whiterabbit]

Same problem as before. Warden would have to cut up the shotshell to analyze it. Or worse, my flintlock. "Well Mr Warden, you are welcome to stand apart from me and catch the roundball to verify it is a brass ball bearing and not lead, but I'm not sure I recommend that course of action..."

[turmech]

Not trying to beat a dead horse but they do that very thing here. Have not had it done in a while but they have done it to me while goose hunting years back.

IIRC this is what they used. http://www.streamsystems.com/

[Whiterabbit]

Probably why they wrote the law here as 'approved lead free' rather than 'lead free'. Oh, it's lead free? great. Is it approved? no? Gonna have to cite you.

[cwheel]

The problem is crime and a small number of shooters and hunters. Having grown up and retiring from Sacramento, I watched it every night on the news. First thing talked about on the local news every night is todays body count from the gangs and other misfortunes. Working for, and retiring from the City, lack of tax money for cops plays a important roll. Just before I retired, there was a cycle where almost 500 City PD retired and with the shortages in the general fund they couldn't be replaced. In fact, there was a 25 million dollar shortfall that year. Fewer cops = more crime. Gang violence was almost always the lead stories in the nightly news. Average city dweller is not a shooter or hunter sees gun control as violence control. And there is the heart of the problem in California. If you can't control the gangs and crime there locking up the convicts for a good long time, they just come back and resume business as usual. No room in the prison system to do that, in fact, they are letting them out early due to overcrowding. All of this gives the gun control folks a good foot hold selling the story to them that gun control will = less crime at little or no additional cost. I'd go to bed at night there and listen to the nightly gun fire and most often not even see it make the news, not "News worthy" enough. I suspect lots of large urban areas are this way, and expect it to get worse. Hunters and shooters aren't the issue here, gangs and crime are. The Brady group sells there twisted agenda promising it will somehow reduce this problem. Lead ban will most likely stand for these reasons, no ammo, reduced gun fire. Us hunters and shooters rights under the second amendment are rather a small issue in the scale of things there. Hats off to the folks who remain there and keep up the fight, big uphill battle.
Chris

[Whiterabbit]

the problem is NOT crime.

[RP]

Funny thing is they say you shoot a duck or any water fowl with lead it falls in the water which they say is bad. Also if you don't recover the birds or fail to kill it birds of prey get them and also the lead. Then they say it effects the thickness of its eggs or some **** like that. That's the story they are using here they also can field test your shells and birds with a scanner just pray the bird is lead free and not having any lead from being shot by someone else and lived. Also the new shot cost more and works about half as well. All that being said on opening day of dove season tons of lead is shot all over the county its hard to find a field that has cut corn and is not full of hunters. Also think about all the fishing weights and fishing nets that are still lead here. I have to say its all about control just a backdoor way of doing things. I hate to get religious but the US has turned it back on GOD and now he is turning his back on us and look at the fine job man is doing. I am sure that statement will offend some here but for those just think of this if all you do is follow his guidelines for living without worshiping him how great this world would be.

[turmech]

Even though I used the comparison to lead use for waterfowl really being no different than lead use for other small game I try to not to do that because the powers to be will just say fine ban it all (like CA is proposing). In fact there is a few areas ban lead for doves as I understand (may be Iowa, correct me if I am wrong).


And I hope no one who opened the link I posted to the lead scanner thinks I am a fan of it. I just though I 'd point out the tools are in the field and it appears to me they are happy to use them if they can write the fine.

[blikseme300]

They the environmental extremists-anti-gunners have never proved a animal dying of lead poisoning, either directly or second hand. Just the same as They never proved global warming, or the R12 freon was bad and the replacement was better. But They are entrenched, systemic in all levels of government, and They got there on purpose because They have this cause to save the Earth 1st.

The late George Carlin did this: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/251836-we-re-so-self-important-everybody-s-going-to-save-something-now-save

[Whiterabbit]

we don't have comedians like that anymore. Best comedy central can muster with respect to a socio-political comedian is someone who built a career off of "bush sucks!"

[405grain]

I live and work in California, so this new law effects me. I just wanted to point out that I've tried the "lead free" 22lr cartridges. They don't obturate to seal the bore, and the blow-by gases cause massive bore leading. On the range I was getting larger than one foot groups at 50 yards using rifles that would shoot 3/4" groups with lead bullets. It is my opinion that the lead free 22's are worthless. Soon, I won't be able to hunt with 22 rim fires at all.
I've taken several head of game over the years with cast boolits, and have never died even once from lead poisoning! It looks like those days are over too. I used to hunt with a muzzleloader. It was a lot of fun. Now I can't do that either. You see, this law has nothing to do with the environment, or endangered buzzards, or anything else. It's just a new way to prevent hunting. The animal rights extremists insinuated themselves into the state government, and began pushing their agenda. First they gave big donations to the Department of Fish and Game. Then that got changed to the Department of Fish and Wildlife. Whats the difference? Simple: Game is something that you hunt - wildlife is something that you protect.
By the time that the lead bullet ban hit the Governor's desk, the lady that was walking his dog for him was a leading member of the Humane Society of the United States. One of the missions of the HSUS is to outlaw both hunting and fishing. The animal rights extremists believe that hunting and fishing is cruel, and people should just buy they're (mostly vegetarian) food at the supermarket instead. If you think that this lead bullet ban is just something that's happening in California, then your sadly mistaken. Commiefornia is just the low hanging fruit. This type of legislation will be pushed off on people in other states too. If you like to hunt and shoot, then you better register and vote, or they will try to take your rights away just like they are doing to us.
As for me, I'll just switch to a 22 Hornet, and have to use lead free bullets for hunting. I'll use cast boolits for target practice.

[cbrick]

For those that posted that any of this has to do with crime control I'd say you fell for the propaganda. It has NOTHING to do with crime. It has nothing to do with lead pollution. It has nothing to do with saving any animal and it's just like obummercare that has nothing to do with your health.

It is 110% about controlling you. The most horrid, obnoxious and disgusting thing there is to a libtard is your right and ability to choose for yourself. It is 110% about power and control. California is nothing more than the proving ground. It is coming to a state near you.

Proof of that? The latest polls have obummer at a 45% approval rating. You might think that's good cause his popularity is slipping but look at the other side of the coin . . . 45% of the population of this country has their head so far up their hieny that they believe he is doing a fine job. Scary thought isn't it?

It's not about lead, lead is simply the next chip off the block, one more step towards the ultimate goal. Total control of everybody, everything.

Rick

[Digital Dan]

I would prefer the people of California stay in California inasmuch as the politicians they elected have managed to completely corrupt a once industrious people and turn them into nanny state drones. I would think the circumstance reversible but they need to stay in CA to throw the bums out of office.

[coverbw]

Copper colored powder coat?
That's an awesome idea! Maybe you could take it a step further and make them "green" bullets. Rainbow would be tough to do but would get you a nod in CA for sure!

[44man]

Many of you are so right. Gun and people control is the goal.
I love the animals. we feed birds and squirrels, deer when it is right before they get on poor browse.
Those creeps do not care about the animals, look at how many pets are put to death every minute. Touch my dogs and meet a .500 boolit. PETA, what a farce to make money! They kill more then anyone.
I care if animals need control to save them. They are pretty to some *** but with no control they die and suffer because we have upset nature. Man is the worst ever to let nature work. Liberals can ruin the earth and it is coming home.
We vote but we are lost to liberals by numbers that get all free from taxpayers or donations from stupid people.

[9.3X62AL]

Noone is fighting the law. I asked our GOC lobbyist that question very specifically. The answer was no, GOC is not fighting it. (who else will?)

#2 there is already a law stating all hunting bullets in CA must be expanding. So AP ammo is already banned. That's a non-issue. I would be shocked if a game warden cited anyone for a hardcast lead bullet as being non expanding. Pretty sure lead of any kind is considered expanding by the DFG.

#3 solid copper is not considered AP as per anyone's definition (copper beryllium yes, 100% copper, no). So Barnes bullets and E-tips etc are all OK. Free machining brass is not OK, even if it has the tip drilled out for an expanding nose, because even though it is AP, the drilled nose would make it expanding, but it's more than 1% lead. Switch the alloy to 360 (I think it's 360), and there is no longer any lead in the brass. Still armor piercing, but with the nose drilled out like a barnes or an E-tip it should be considered expanding and legal to hunt with in rifles. That has not happened here yet. I don't know if the existing brass HP bullets (monolithic, I think, and that outfit in South Africa) are free machining or alloy 360.

Bottom line, "armor piercing" is a red herring because we have 100% copper. The moment someone in some other state gets copper solids put on the federal ban for armor piercing materials, THEN all pistol hunting will be banned in California. rifle will still be OK so long as the barnes coppers are still considered expanding (though it would be re-classified as AP too). Until the ATF cracks down on them of course like they did for the barnes brass solids, for being AP and "possible" to load in pistol.

It's just one more step on the yellow brick road, but AP is not a full-stop yet.

There is language in the law that provides for a return to use of lead bullets if a Federal or State regulating agency deems copper bullets to be "armor-piercing". Read the entire law, and lower your paranoia levels. I intensely dislike the law, but I'm also not going to conduct my hunting activity in a manner that results in fines or gun forfeiture. The best way might be to hunt out of state, and deny these refried Marxist azzhats the satisfaction of collecting license fees. MANY hunters in the Owens Valley long ago stopped hunting locally due to the head-up-*** forest management in Inyo NF. Indeed, there is little new about this law, other than its expansion. I've had to use Barnes TTSX in Zone D-8 for years already. Condor preservation, what bullsquat. Just like Gov. Moonbeam's toy train project.

This scenario is reminiscent of Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce. He once said (and this the closest text to the exact quote I can recall) "We are hunters, and we hunt the buffalo. When we can no longer hunt the buffalo, we will hunt mice--because we are hunters." It is with that mindset that I view the bleak situation here in the Worker's Paradise. At some point, I will be driven out by the stupidity of this failed state's serial sillinesses, but for now I will continue to hunt within the idiot guidelines they make, and spite the morons by shooting LEAD ALLOYS in EVERY VENUE POSSIBLE. Damn them and their nameless, fatherless offspring (thank you, Scarlett). Et illegitimus non carborundum!

[quilbilly]

These environmental extremist-anti-gunners work in our government, they are paid by our tax dollars. They run for office, They work in the legal professions. in appointed professions for federal, state, & county agencies, in F&G Depts, in USFS, BLM, state land agencies.
This is no joke or something to be taken lightly.

You can safely assume that any organizations like HSUS, Sierra Club, Earth 1st, Audubon Society, Gila Watch, Center for Biological Diversity, others are against your Rights and are actively working against you right now somewhere.
It's in their own how to book(s) They have names for what They do. MONKEY WRENCH (anything to derail productive activities They don't approve of), ECOTAGE (read sabotage).

One of their symbols/logo is crossed Monkey Wrench & Tomahawk, when/where Monkey Wrenching doesn't work They pick up the Tomahawk. You forgot one - The Nature Conservancy. I was at a legislative hearing in the mid-90's on a bill to put certain state owned forest and adjacent estuary areas off limits to hunting and fishing (or any other unsupervised recreation) when the Sierra Club rep and the Nature Conservancy rep together testified, and this is the direct quote, "Recreation is not a suitable use for public lands and resources." The same legislative bill allowed logging and commercial fishing. I dutifully reported this in the newspaper I represented.

[9.3X62AL]

You forgot one - The Nature Conservancy. I was at a legislative hearing in the mid-90's on a bill to put certain state owned forest and adjacent estuary areas off limits to hunting and fishing (or any other unsupervised recreation) when the Sierra Club rep and the Nature Conservancy rep together testified, and this is the direct quote, "Recreation is not a suitable use for public lands and resources." The same legislative bill allowed logging and commercial fishing. I dutifully reported this in the newspaper I represented.

Yes, both groups are preservationist azzhats. The sell-out to commercial logging and fishing is a sop to the State--2 dozen logging companies and 40 commercial fisherman are far easier and cheaper to supervise than are millions of sportsmen.

[Just Duke]

What is happening in here in California, is not about animals. But about total control.

You will only be allowed to use approved bullets to hunt with. The game wardens will destroy one of your expensive bullets to make sure that they do not have any lead. Or they can send them in to a lab for testing.

There is already rumblings with the anti's (communist). That copper bullets must be outlawed.....copper poisoning!

Next on the list is lead boolits for target shooting! And the closure of shooting ranges as toxic waste sites!


Take care
Abenaki

Correct. It's not about hunting or animal preservation. It's about disarmament of the people. Its the old two steps forward one step backward approach.
Also remember anyone that would enforce unjust oppressive/laws are pretty much from the same gene pool as the ones that ran concentration camps/death camps during WW2 in Europe. And yes they also said they were just doing their job too. And yes they had their lame rationalization of why they were doing it. They would sell their soul to the devil so they could sire their evil spawn and purchase a 60" inch LCD TV at Walmart at the cost of our freedom.
Next will be a ban on Copper seeing it's also toxic to humans also. You would just be delaying your demise by staying there.

[MUSTANG]

Yes, both groups are preservationist azzhats. The sell-out to commercial logging and fishing is a sop to the State--2 dozen logging companies and 40 commercial fisherman are far easier and cheaper to supervise than are millions of sportsmen.


You are short sighted, the Liberal/Progressive/Socialist Communist's in both parties have not sold out to logging companies, commercial fishermen, or any of the thousands of other legal activities of this country. They have a much greater and longer view, total domination through incremental-ism. While you are working to feed you families, striving to do the things necessary to keep a family together, and seeking to have small diversions in life that support pursuit of happiness (hunting, fishing, shooting, hiking on public lands, or...) the Liberal/Progressive/Socialist Communist's in both parties are incrementally stealing the Freedom and Liberty of every American through Incremental Laws. In the 1960's we had numerous outdoor hunting and fishing shows on television or in magazines. The never ending press of these mentalities has resulted in the sponsors (evil Beer, Liquor, Tobacco, Gun Mfg, etc,,,) being banned from advertising. The common citizen has been incrementally denied access to Public lands through creation of "Wilderness" areas, restrictions to authorized camping locations only, road closures, endangered habitat designations, closures due to misuse by Off Road enthusiasts, closures due to trash being found (after government removal of trash receptacles, and .........

The old story that a frog will jump from a pot when placed in hot water, but will sit in a cool pot of water on a hot flame until boiled comes to mind as a watch the Incremental ism. Our Hunting, Fishing, Shooting activities are being destroyed not by open attacks and legislation, but rather through the incremental-ism of our educational system separating our youth from our legacy of bearing arms, and from our legacy of hunting. It is being destroyed by the ever grinding incremental-ism where a criminal act must be resolved by a steady diet of reduced freedoms through more and more passage of laws restricting those who have done no wrong. Next time your favorite political representative at the local, state, or Federal Level agrees to a compromise rather than have an all out fight at the risk of their political career; or expresses a desire to "Reach across the aisle" and "Be Reasonable"; you should stop and realize that another nail has been placed in the Coffin holding your personal Freedom and Liberties.

What does this all have to do with Lead Free Bullets? Everything, for that is simply one firefight in the destruction of Individual Liberty and Freedom.


The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler asserted the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff.

In the mean time I avoid California and other states that restrict my hunting more than others at this time. I am saddened that my Grandsons (2&3) will probably never have the opportunity to hunt, fish, and shoot that I have had; unless the American Citizenry should awaken and take back their Personal Freedoms and Liberty, a short sighted fight against Incremental-ism will fail, just as fights against Lead Bullet Bans and undue Hunting restrictions in Kalifornia have failed.

P.S. as a Spit in the Eye to the Incrementalist's; Merry Christmas to all, and may all have a Happy and Successful new Year.

[Just Duke]

This oppression is nothing new. In the 1400's they had Knights to protect the Kings deer and most have no clue that the same knight were the tax collectors also. Contrary to what's passes as movies and sanctioned by the Screen Actors Guild the Knights were basically the Joey Soprano of the middle ages. Hollywood write their own history.
Our leaders are from the same family bloodline and they keep it pure at all costs.

[smokeywolf]

Yes, both groups are preservationist azzhats. The sell-out to commercial logging and fishing is a sop to the State--2 dozen logging companies and 40 commercial fisherman are far easier and cheaper to supervise than are millions of sportsmen.

It's also a lot harder to negotiate bribes (politicians refer to bribes as campaign contributions) and kickbacks from individual sportsmen.

Good Lord willing and the creeks don't rise, I will lead my family out of Commiefornia, Kali, Mexifornia whatever the Demtards and criminal aliens decide to name it, by Summer of 2015.

Perhaps the best thing to do now is make an example of California and show the other States what happens when the people who provide the bulk of a State's tax revenues pack up and take their money elsewhere.

As far as hunting goes, I'll wait until I'm out of this liberal progressive nightmare before I buy a new hunting license or another tag.

smokeywolf