Need boolit ID for 8x56R

[Finnmike]

I purchased a box of .329 boolits tumbled with alox at a local show. 208 gr as-is. Are these from a Lee mold?
I've got 800 rounds of tihs stuff I am pulling down and working up reduced loads for. These arsenal loads kick my
tail even in a long rifle.

[TreeKiller]

.329 is the lee mold. Slug the barrel all 4 of mine are .333 to .334. if that large you can use the lee.338 mold. Try some of the Nazi rounds in the short M 95.

[Beekeeper]

FinnMike,
As said above the boolit pictured above is the Lee .329 boolit they claim is the corerect one for the 8x56R.
I tried it and found it would not perform past 50 yards.
I bought the" Old Feller Frankenstein" Mould from BRP when bruce was still making Moulds.
It works great and at 100 yards out of a short rifle (carbine) it will hold 2 inches with iron sights. Not bad for me with old eyes and shakey hands.
I highly recommend the .338 boolit for the steyr carbine and will bet it would perform great in the long rifle as well

beekeeper

[Old Ranger]

Slug your barrel. I lucked out. My carbine measures only 329. My Lee mold casts at 331 and I honed my Lee push through sizer to the same size to seat CG's. Pan lube the bullets and I'm good to go.

[jonk]

You never know what your bore will mic out to; while i use the 338 for mine, the 329 is great in 8mm mausers in the 325-7 range and in the lebel and kropatschek and a host of others.

[Dschuttig]

Are you reloading the berdan brass?

[blixen]

Yep, it's the Lee. Just cast some today. 203 grains. .329. I size them down for my 8 mm Yugo.

[Buckshot]

...........Trying to feed the M95 and M95/31 Steyr straight pulls can be a bit difficult at times, mainly due to some rather odd barrel and chamber dimensions. The barrels have a 4 land 4 groove design of about equal width. Lands will run about .316" while grooves are not so easily pinned down as I've seen them run from a tight .329" to the more common (from what I've encountered) of .330" to .335". Assuming a .316" bore, even the .329" groove gives you a depth of .0065". Consider then a groove of .332" and you have a depth of .008". With the .316" diameter lands being 50% of the bore, when the .332" lead slug engraves you have a considerable amount of lead being moved.

In addition to the barrel, for further enjoyment you can also have some rather odd chamber dimensions. As a couple others have mentioned using a mould designed for 338 slugs, I have a 2 cavity set of both the Lee and the RCBS designs. The Lee is for a 220gr design while the RCBS is for a 205gr boolit. Both take GC's. Both of these moulds drop their slugs at as close to .340" as to make no difference.

http://www.fototime.com/E5F797678DB6438/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/0EC721E256DE02F/standard.jpg

The above are the cast designs I've fired from my various 8x56's. Starting from the LEFT is the Saeco #352 which is a special order mould design for a 205gr Tapered FNPB of .336" on the wide base band. The next is the Lee C-338-220-R which drops @ .340". Then the RCBS 205gr 338 that also drops @ .340". The last is the Oldfeller 'Frankenstein' design. This is from the original mould cut by Dan at Mountain Moulds. The RIGHT Photo shows the Saeco. The left slug gas been T/L'd and sized .336". The one on the right ha been TL'd, had a 338 GC put on and then sized .332". As to the chamber dimensions, both of my Steyrs will chamber a case with a .340" slug and the chamber throat will also pass them. Although my M95 will slightly touch/mark them. I mention this as a considerable number of cast shooters tout the fact that your cast boolit should 'Fill the throat' or be a thousandth under.

Finally, these firearms are gifted with a leade of considerable distance. Consider now a cast slug of .338" OD and the common barrel dimensions. A .338" slug entering a bore of .316". The slug is .022" oversize for 50% of it's OD. A groove of (say) .332", for which the boolit is .006" oversize. Now THAT is a considerable amount of material being moved around upon engraving eh?

http://www.fototime.com/B28CF43324320EC/standard.jpg

The 'Frankenstein' at OAL 3.045" and chambered in the M95/31 and the lands lightly touch. Loaded in the M95 there is no engraving whatsoever. Nose/bore rider OD is .319".

http://www.fototime.com/40343B606B07095/standard.jpg

Frankenstein boolit originally seated to 3.140 OAL. In the M95 engraving marks are nil. Pictured as it appeared after being chambered in the M95/31. You can see the bit of rumpled lead at the casemouth caused by the slug being pushed down against the crimp due to the shorter leade of the M95/31 vs the M95. Due to the long service life of these firearms, and the number of countries using them plus the number of modifications over time their bore/groove/chamber dimensions may vary considerably. A final concern a with other military rifles is the possibility of wear at the muzzle due to enthusiastic use of the steel rod and cleaning from the muzzle. I wonder how many troopers were reluctant to clean from the breech simply because of the possibility of the rotating bolt head snapping closed upon removal? :8-)

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As a positive I have to say that other then a rather lackluster trigger (similar in feel to the Russian M-N) there isn't any negative accuracy problems with the M95's action. I had a rather ratty barreled M95/31 re-barreled and chambered to 30-40 Krag. It is a fantastic shooter with cast OR jacketed, easily handling top book 30-40 loads and is very easy to load for.

http://www.fototime.com/00C73BAA827D746/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/749F5ACFFD11D67/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/6FF4D290178743E/standard.jpg

My 1895 is in exceeding nice shape and fully bears the same serial number on stock, action, bolt, barrel, magazine and front bbl band. It's bore is in excellent condition, except for the rather off the wall dimensions. A very long throat/lead, will easily chamber a slug sized .338" and a bore/groove of .316" x .333".

.............Buckshot

[Finnmike]

A wealth of information imparted here, gents. Thanks! Buckshot, your modified carbine looks to have a heavy replacement barrel. Nice looking setup!
I bought this rifle at Huntington's (the old RCBS) store in Oroville, where I grew up. My dad went to school with Fred Sr. The bore is perfect - and the numbers match. It was made in 1917 and went into a closet somewhere. The muzzle slugged at .330/.315; the leade is the same. The throat is .416 long; a bore rider like the Lee or the Frankenstein should be fine.

I do have a carbine and it beat me so badly 15 years ago it was put away with the 900 rounds of ammo I got with it. Gonna pull the FMJBTs and cut the loads down for the jwords or boolits.

[Dschuttig]

Finnmike, are you saving the brass? If you reload them into boxer and don't want the berdans I'll buy them off you.


Buckshot, when you say 95/31 and 95 do you mean a bulgarian re-work and original austrian m.95? I've got a bunch of these, and they seem to have different rifling depending on the barrel. Most of the original WWI era bbls seem to have 60%groove/40% Land, but I also have a post war rework with a brand new barrel (no date) that is a even 50/50 with grooves even deeper than the originals. / Dan

[Finnmike]

Finnmike, are you saving the brass? If you reload them into boxer and don't want the berdans I'll buy them off you.

Next time out I'll fire some (er...let my nephew do it...) for you and wash the cases. How many do you want? Just postage is fine with me.

[Janoosh]

Oh Man, Dschuttig, you beat me to it! Great brass, easy to reload with berdan or to convert, Larry Gibson style. I understand NOE now has the specs to make the correct mold.

[Buckshot]

Finnmike, are you saving the brass? If you reload them into boxer and don't want the berdans I'll buy them off you.


Buckshot, when you say 95/31 and 95 do you mean a bulgarian re-work and original austrian m.95? I've got a bunch of these, and they seem to have different rifling depending on the barrel. Most of the original WWI era bbls seem to have 60%groove/40% Land, but I also have a post war rework with a brand new barrel (no date) that is a even 50/50 with grooves even deeper than the originals. / Dan

Dan,

I think that's what I mean. I'm not a student of the carbine versions so to me if it's like the photo of mine it's a M95. If it's a bit different (regardless of it's REAL nomenclature) it's a 95/31! :-)

...............Buckshot

[Buckshot]

...........I'd bought my first 8x56R Straight pull in the early 90's from Century Arms. Ammo (military surplus) at the time was $1.47 per cardboard box of 10 rounds on clips. No dies available I could afford.

http://www.fototime.com/AC642356CC4878D/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/97D8CFD115331D0/standard.jpg

I converted the Berdan primed brass to take 209 shotgun primers. If you look close at the bases of those in the plastic boxes you should be able to tell they have the 209's. Some of those odds and ends ho-made tools laid out there have to do with reloading the brass. A couple do not and I have no idea why they're out there?

http://www.fototime.com/6A9933E12FA8F6F/standard.jpg

I'd have to go look at my range notebook to mention which carbine fired these or the velocities. I know they were fired at 50 yards. Velocities would have been around 1600 - 1700 fps. That one on the right with a full case of surplus WC 872 was probably ~1800 fps. I have a couple groups fired with the old 1938 military ammo and those 5 shot groups weren't anything special either. Best cast boolit loads had been those fired with the 'Frankenstein' design, which all weighed right around 235 grs with lube & GC.

.............Buckshot

[Dschuttig]

Finnmike, I'll take whatever ya got. Just let me know where to send postage $. If you got any other berdans to get rid of I'de be a glad recipient. Thanks again, Dan

[Dschuttig]

Buckshot,
Those are some nice groups, better than what I have gotten from the carbines that I have. I do have a '17 dated long rifle that is beautiful with a superb barrel that comes in at .3285 and shoots as accurate as your with the lee 8x56r bullet sized .330 with quite a few different loads.