crimping heeled bullets

[stephenj]

i ordered a new mold from bernie at old west bullet molds today for my .41 swiss .
in my excitement i neglected to ask about crimping .
as it is now the weekend and i have zero experiance with crimping a heeled style bullet
maybe someone here can enlighten me .

[BCB]

You questions is interesting as I have been reloading the 32 Long Colt for a good many years and it too is a heel boolit design—or at least the boolits I cast for it are…

Another member on this site explained how he crimps his 32LC cases and I got to thinking…

The diameter of the outside of the 32LC case at the mouth is similar to the 30-30. I have Lee FCD’s for ½ dozen cartridges and I have the 30-30 FCD…

I also use the Lee Push Thru sizing dies sometimes and I have one for 0.309”. So, I used the push thru stem for that to push the 32LC case into the 30-30 FCD. I simple set the case on the top of the stem. I was able to set the FCD so the 32LC case went in far enough to allow the collet to close around the mouth of the 32LC case…

There is no shellholder involved to push the “thing” up that caused the collet to shut around the case. But the force of pushing the loaded case upwards cause the collet to close…
(Not a very good explanation, but the best I can do)

So, you might see if you can get a similar setup unless someone makes a similar die specifically for your cartridge…

I asked Lee some time ago if they could make one and they said they didn’t make them for heel boolits. Still that might be worth a try for you…

Good-luck…BCB

[ndnchf]

I had Bernie at Old West molds make me a colllet crimp die for .32 Short/Long Colt. What a slick little tool, it is adjustable for both Long and Short cases. It took me just a few minutes to adjust the shell holder to my .775” case length. I had some rounds already loaded. I ran one up, adjusted the crimp slightly and Wa-la – nicely crimped bullets! This thing works great.

Here is a round on the adjustable shell holder ready to run up.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/crimp-2_zpseee218df.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/crimp-2_zpseee218df.jpg.html)

Here it is fully in the die and crimped:

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/crimp-3_zps51a295f6.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/crimp-3_zps51a295f6.jpg.html)

Here is an uncrimped round on the left and a crimped round on the right. The background makes it hard to see the crimped
case mouth, but it is snuggly crimped.

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/crimp-1_zpsa5b11be9.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/crimp-1_zpsa5b11be9.jpg.html)

I highly recommend this for anyone serious about loading and shooting .32 Colt or any other heeled bullets. Bernie is very accomodating and reasonably priced.

[BCB]

ndnchf,

That is a nice setup...

Now that I look at that, I begin to wonder if my setup is just pure coincidence that the length of the push thru stem is just the correct length to allow the case to be in the correct place to receive a crimp?...

Guess I could try it with a shortened case to see...

If I can't get a crimp on a short case--I am lucky it worked on the standard length LC case...

How much to have the setup you got made by Old West?...

Thanks...BCB

[ndnchf]

ndnchf,

That is a nice setup...

Now that I look at that, I begin to wonder if my setup is just pure coincidence that the length of the push thru stem is just the correct length to allow the case to be in the correct place to receive a crimp?...

Guess I could try it with a shortened case to see...

If I can't get a crimp on a short case--I am lucky it worked on the standard length LC case...

How much to have the setup you got made by Old West?...

Thanks...BCB

You may have been very lucky in the length of your push through rod. As you can see, Bernie's adjustable shell holder is machined from a grade 8 bolt and is adjusted by loosening a set screw and moving it up and down. It came set for the short case, but I easily adjusted it to fit the .775" long cases I make from .32 S&W long brass. I don't recall the exact price now, but it was under $50 and that includes the adjustable shell holder. I was so pleased with this one that I had him make a custom .50-70 collet crimp die too.

This photo better shows the crimp on completed cartridges

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/21newsoldiers_zps5219606b.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/21newsoldiers_zps5219606b.jpg.html)

[stephenj]

why thank you gentleman very much.

i cant think of a thing to say ... a perfectly answered question.

[robertbank]

Well I got out on to this thread by a friend of mine. I ordered a crimp die for my .41LC. I spoke to Bernie about it and he made it so the die would crimp both heel base and the hollow base bullets I cast for my 1892 Colt New Navy. I spoke to him this morning and he has a die coming up here already. What service and what a fine gentleman. Thanks Bernie for the great service and the helpful hints. I am looking forward to finally having a die that will crimp my bullets properly.

All the best.

Take Care

Bob

[hpbear101]

Is that the mold for pistol or rifle? I shoot .41 Swiss rifles and currently use the lee 310 mold. I would be very interested to know how that performs for you if it is the rifle version.
Tom

[robertbank]

No the 41 Long Colt is a pistol cartridge designed by a committee who were high on home brew back in the day. I am lucky in that I have an 1892 New Navy Colt with .413 cylinders and a .407 bore. Not sure how well the hollow base bullet with a diameter of .386 is going to work out with smokeless powder but we shall see. Both my heel base bullets should do ok but I am not expecting accuracy to be much more than minute of man out to 25 yards or so. From what I have read the cartridge was never seen at the Olympics.:>)

Take Care

Bob

[ndnchf]

This is an old thread, I was surprised to get notification of a new reply. Glad to hear Bernie is still doing fine work. I love the crimp dies he made for me.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello All,

I posted this on another thread, but here goes.

[robertbank]

Hello All,

I posted this on another thread, but here goes.

Unfortunately Lee cannot or simply doesn't make the FCD for 41 Long Colt. I tried them early on The guy I spoke to in their shop said it could not be done, period. Apparently it can and Bernie got my money.

Take Care

Bob

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Bob,

That is what I stated in my document. Old West is the place to go.
That is unless you do it yourself, the 41 colt is .030" longer than the 44 colt,
and I made that work.

AntiqueSledMan

[robertbank]

You da man. Ah the 41 LC is quite the project. Designed by a committee on crack, the cartridge is a wizards dream. I am determined to develop a load that is better than minute of man at 10 yards. We shall see how it all works out. I am working with an excellent bore. I know the gun, up until two years ago had not been fired more than 100 rounds since about 1914. The Grand kids, me along with my brother and cousin played with it every chance we got but that was about it. The cylinders are .414" and the bore .407. I may have better luck with the heel base bullets (160gr and 190gr) vs the hollow base at .386 diameter.

Take Care

Bob

[Harry O]

Lee used to make custom crimp dies for the 41LC. I know because I have one. It works great. When the first Obama shortages started, they quit all custom work and I understand that they have not reinstated most of it at this time. I learned that when I tried to get a .32LC FCD.

I also have a .32 Long Colt crimp die from Old West Moulds. I had him make two different bolt lengths so I could crimp both Short and Long Colts. One bolt length will not crimp both of them, no matter how you adjust them. It also works great.

Before both of these, I made a crimping die starting with an electrical crimping/stripping tool. That is the kind that strips different gage wire and then crimps the splice together on them. I drilled a hole the size I needed in the stripping part, then ground it with a moto-dremel tool to make the part crimp fairly evenly all around. The 41LC hole size was 0.386" which was a standard drill size in a lettered drill set.

I learned from that tool, that crimping is necessary for accuracy, particularly with heel-base bullets and smokless powder. It made a big difference in the shooting of my heel-base 41LC's. Wouldn't be without one now.

[BCB]

I got the 32 LC from him a month or so ago…

I am crimping Alox-coated boolits and of course they are dirty as that Alox gets all over the seating stems and the collet in the crimper…

I tried to take the collet out of the die, but I couldn’t get it to budge. I thought they were like LFC’s and a steel ring held them in place and they could be tapped out for cleaning…

I took a wooden dowel and tried to tap it out, but no go…

I email the place I got it and never got a reply back…

Any help?...

Thanks…BCB

[robertbank]

Lee used to make custom crimp dies for the 41LC. I know because I have one. It works great. When the first Obama shortages started, they quit all custom work and I understand that they have not reinstated most of it at this time. I learned that when I tried to get a .32LC FCD.

I also have a .32 Long Colt crimp die from Old West Moulds. I had him make two different bolt lengths so I could crimp both Short and Long Colts. One bolt length will not crimp both of them, no matter how you adjust them. It also works great.

Before both of these, I made a crimping die starting with an electrical crimping/stripping tool. That is the kind that strips different gage wire and then crimps the splice together on them. I drilled a hole the size I needed in the stripping part, then ground it with a moto-dremel tool to make the part crimp fairly evenly all around. The 41LC hole size was 0.386" which was a standard drill size in a lettered drill set.

I learned from that tool, that crimping is necessary for accuracy, particularly with heel-base bullets and smokless powder. It made a big difference in the shooting of my heel-base 41LC's. Wouldn't be without one now.

Harry I wished I knew that before I made the phone call. The guy I talked to was in their Production Dept. and was emphatic the FCD they make would never work. It maybe just a case of Lee deciding not to bother with the cartridge. Oh well, just makes room for someone to step into the breach. I am looking forward to getting my die and seeing what the old girl will do. I wonder what Grand dad used for a crimping tool back in the day. I know he told me he melted down tea bags as a teen. Beyond that, I don't recall him mentioning much on the reloading tools they used. Things were pretty primitive back then and there was not a lot of money around so I doubt he had much in the way of reloading tools.

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

Well my crimping die from Old West Bullet Molds arrived today. Excellent product and I can't thank Bernie enough for the fast service on this die. I have just loaded up 40 cartridges with the nicest crimp on the heel based bullets you ever saw. If you need a crimping die for the 41 Long Colt Bernie is the man to contact. Off to the range to fire up an 1892 New Navy Colt. I think my Grand dad has as a smile on his face right now.

Take Care

Bob