Help! lost in Mannlicher land aka 375 Nitro Express

[PB234]

I am on the trail of a 9.5x57mm Mannlicher and mostly lost as to how to feed it. New cases are about $3.30 per case. New factory ammo might be special order from Midway at about $10 a round. Dies and loading information is so far not found by me.

The best I can figure out is to get new brass, neck size it if possible and get a mold made for the boolit. To say I am sort of lost in old Mannlicher land is correct.

Anyone have experience feeding these old rifles or where to get dies of either full length or neck sizing variety? Shell holder ideas also are most welcome. Loading experiences as to loads, etc.?

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I have 2 rifles chambered for 9.5 X 56.7 M-S. I use both cast and jacketed in them. I use Redding custom dies, with a tapered expander. For the heavier jacketed loads 35 Whelan cases were used to form cases in the rebarreled R 700 and for the rebarreled Argentine I use for cast boolits, I form the cases from 30-06 cases. The dies work for both loadings. Data is available in the Cartridges of the World books. Clymer made my chamber reamer. I use an RCBs 38-55 FN GC mould for the cast loads simply because I have had good results with it and did not need to try other moulds. While I earlier had several M-Ss I simply could not locate a quality 1910 9.5 mm. The Argie is shooting MOA, the R700 a bit better.

BvT

[Wayne Smith]

For dies, call Dave Davidson at CH4D. I think this might be one he catalogues. If not send him a chamber cast and he will make you a set of dies.

[LynC2]

Wouldn't it work just opening up 8x57 Mauser cases to the correct size? I'm sure they are a lot cheaper and more available than the 9.5x57 MS cases.

[PB234]

Thanks to everyone for the help. I feel my checkbook depleting to fund a project that will take some time to get to. I just like the romance and quality of old Mannlichers. I am thinking to start with new cases or formed and find a way to neck size them for one rifle it might be an easy way to solve the loading problem. New cases at $3 a case and then a custom made neck sizing die might be a lot cheaper and faster than searching out a die set and paying for it. RCBS no longer takes orders for custom dies and while I like CH4D a lot it might take many $ and considerable time.

For fun loads maybe cast and Unique. Heavier loads something else to be figured out later. Maybe even just size part of the neck? I'll dream about being in Africa prewar while at the range in the winter.

[1874Sharps]

PB234,

I think LynC2 has a good idea about necking up the 8X57 case to 9X57 case you want. You may have to do this in two stages, but going straight from 8mm to 9mm may work. As far as dies, you may have to bite the boolit and have a manufacturer make you some. I do not know about how much something like that costs, but I can say the M-S is a great rifle and I have enjoyed my M-S Model 1952 in 7mm Mauser greatly! It shoots exceedingly well and with a 200 yard zero it has a point blank range to around 250 yards. A fine rifle is truly a joy to shoot and I think you will find any of the vintage M-S rifles very gratifying.

[Mk42gunner]

CH4D list the two die set for $80.00. That doesn't sound too bad for an oddball caliber.

Robert

[PB234]

Robert, thanks - I must have missed that when looking at CH4D. When a bag of potato chips costs a few dollars and contains mostly air $80 for a set of dies is a great value. I don't buy/eat potato chips anymore so there is something good about inflation.

1874 - agree about old Mannlichers exactly.

As expensive as this hobby is it can remain inexpensive. Just hold a set of dies in one hand and a $3 or $4 bag of potato chips (mostly air) in the other. Which one can be resold for much of what was paid for it after use?

[barkerwc4362]

There is actually quite a bit of load data available on the web. I am in the process of building a rifle in 9.5 x 57. I have done a lot of research finding load data and settled on the Speer 235 gr as the jacket bullet and had a custom made 260 gr bullet mould made for my use. I have a set of RCBS 9.5 x 57 dies and will have a reamer made by either JGS or PTG. Cases can be made from 8 x 57 or 30-06. I have made both to test the concept. If you are going to use 30-06 expect to have to turn the case necks. I will be using a Brazilian Mauser 1894 action converted to cock on opening and a Shilen barrel. I do not plan on magnumizing the cartridge, I already have a .375 Whelen IMP for that.

Bill

[tygar]

For dies, call Dave Davidson at CH4D. I think this might be one he catalogues. If not send him a chamber cast and he will make you a set of dies.

Plus a big 1 on Dave.

He's made several wildcats & a few customs for specialty situations for me, e.g. dies to exactly match "match" rifle chambers, small base for calibers that aren't available from the regular guys.

Dave does all sorts of stuff so if you have a special machinist job give him a call.

He also hunts Africa dangerous game with his .500 S&W. I use some of his bullets in mine & he made .470s for me & have custom .458s & .500s coming.

You don't have to need "custom" dies he also makes regular dies & sometimes has them on the shelf & they all are really fine dies.
Tom

[gordie]

i had a pristine M/S in this cal.. it was stolen.. this is all i have left...
92579

[Keith Kessler]

Hi,

I've got a pair of 1910 MS's. Very enjoyable to shoot if you don't push the load to hard. One has a replacement Fajen (sp) stock that I added a nice, soft recoil pad. I've also added bolt mounted peep sights to both rifles.

Shooting them: Started with 30-06 brass as I didn't know any better 28 years ago. Expanded and trimmed. Guess what? Decided that Expanded, trimmed, and anealed worked to make brass that would last over 3 loadings! Started with 42 grains of 3031 under a 270 gr Hornady soft point. That load hurt. I backed it down to 40 grains and that was more comfortable. Special ordered a set of dies from RCBS. Don't remember what they cost but back then they cost. FL sized everything as I didn't know any better.

For fun shooting (and less expensive), I started using a 220 grain Winchester 375 Big Bore bullets. As a bonas they came in boxes of 100 instead of 50. Tired of the recoil, I switched to 12.6 grains of Unique with a large rifle primer. Very, very plesant shooting.

I've just started digging out the 9x57 brass again as I've been loading the 38-55 and I bet I can get some of those lead pills working for the 1910. After some thinking about it it seems odd to buy a 38-55 when I had about the same in the 9.5x57.

Enjoy,

Keith

[MS_1910]

Word of caution...... a 9.5 x 57 Mannlicher Schoenauer is not a 9mm !

Do not load it as one!

The early (pre- WW2) MS rifles had a specific (often proprietary) caliber assigned to each model. The 1905 model (M1905) was factory chambered in 9 x 56, the 9.5 x 57 fits the M1910.

To make things more interesting, the 9.5 x 57 has been referred to by various other numbers over the years such as 9.5 x 56, 9.5 x 56.7, and to the British trade the .375 Nitro Express Rimless.

None of those describe a 9 x 56. The case head dimensions are not the same nor are any of the specifications. They absolutely do not interchange.


The 9.5 x 57 is, however, easily reloaded. I have had excellent results with readily available RCBS dies reforming (then trimming) fresh .35 Whelen cases. The 'bummer' is that Hornady has discontinued their (#3715) 270 grain .375 RN projectile.

The spool magazine (Schoenauer's work- a thing of beauty) is very particular about what it's fed. The profile of that 3715 was ideal, almost perfectly matching that of original (DWM 531) rounds. The cannelure ends up in just the right place and they feed effortlessly.

Much is discussed about the necessity of fireforming the shoulders prior to loading but I have noticed that the RCBS (group G, part number 637501) dies leave a shoulder on the reformed brass that is identical to unfired, original 1930's factory loads from Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken.