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View Full Version : Depriming 7.5 French berdans........



3006guns
12-18-2013, 05:29 AM
I posted on this subject some months back and thought I'd update it and possibly give a word to the wise also.......

I have about 400 rounds of 7.5 x 54 French surplus ammo and it's good looking stuff but unfortunately about 85% of the primers are bad. There were so many misfires it began to get downright embarrassing at the range, so I developed a plan. First I'd pull all the bullets and salvage the powder, then deprime the cases and seat nice fresh Wolf Berdans. Reassemble the cartridges and bingo! Problem solved.

Alas, it was not to be. I tried the water hydraulic method and just got wet. I tried my Lachmiller Berdan removal tool, which has never failed me, and tore the tops off leaving the sides of the primer stuck in the pocket. In over forty years of reloading I've never had anything fight me so hard. I finally put all the brass aside to sulk for a couple of months. During that time I found an article regarding French military ammunition, and it seems they deliberately put a ring crimp around those primers so that there was NO chance of removing them without damage. Why? Well, it seem when the French were in both Indochina and northern Africa they were afraid insurgents would pick up the fired cases and reload them. Okay, so now I know why I couldn't get them out.

About this time, Graf and Sons had Privi 7.5 French brass on sale so I ordered 100. I loaded them with the pulled components and shot my MAS36 without a hiccup for the first time. Shoots pretty good too.....a keeper.

But what to do with all those nice, heavy brass cases? Well the price of brass is pretty good at the scrap yard but I had to fire off all those primers first for safety or they wouldn't take them. I did this little task yesterday in my shop by placing a length of 1/2" water pipe vertically in my vise. I then selected a case from the box and slid the correct shell holder over it. Then I lowered the case into the pipe until the shell holder rested on the end of the pipe. I ground an extra punch to the proper firing pin shape, lowered it through the hole in the middle of the shell holder and gave it a whack with a small hammer.

True to form, about 85% of the primers didn't make a sound through my earmuffs. The only way you could tell that it went off was to pull the case from the pipe and see if smoke issued from the end. If the primer DID go off in a normal fashion (rare) I'd simply slide the shell holder back and allow the case to fall through the pipe to a collection bucket on the floor. Pretty clever I thought.

Still with me? Good, because here comes the good part....roughly 30 of the primers exploded with such tremendous force that the punch was lifted out of the shell holder, accompanied by many bits of the primer. Most of the time the top of the primer was blown off and up through the hole in the shell holder, although ironically some of them deprimed beautifully. When it happened the first time I got a real smack on my fingers, along with black smudge marks but no skin punctures. I already had my earmuffs and glasses on but I put on gloves REAL quick. I finally discharged every single primer (or made sure they were dead) and they're ready for the scrapper.

The point of this whole exercise is this: old military ammo can vary in quality even if loaded in government arsenals. Each of those "strong" primers had too much compound in them in my opinion. On top of that, I did not have the primer properly supported as it would be in a rifle chamber, so the explosion blowing back through the shell holder is entirely my fault.

Anyway, I got them done and have nice fresh Privi cases to shoot. Viva' le France!

Larry Gibson
12-18-2013, 09:42 AM
Seems like they would have been an excellent and better candidate for conversion to boxer primers ; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?143958-Converting-Berdan-primer-pockets-to-Boxer

Larry Gibson

Dutchman
12-18-2013, 09:14 PM
I've not tried Larry's method of Berdan primer conversion but I've read it and think its a very interesting and viable way to utilize otherwise worthless brass. Especially so for those rifles loaded and shot maybe exclusively with cast bullet pressure levels. It's a win-win far as I can see.

As for military surplus ammunition... I would not save the powder from this French ammo. I'd make a line in the street and light it off. As primers loose consistency so does powder.

Over the years I've seen so many guys complain about poor accuracy from their military bolt action rifle. But the only ammo they've shot in it has been ratty old military ammo. You can't imagine the improvement in accuracy when you handload even some simple j-type or especially work up a nice cast bullet load. It turns a mediocre rifle into a joy to shoot.

Not to say I don't have thousands of rds of military surplus ammo hereabouts. I do and I use to buy it very selectively and I paid attention to the forums where reports would detail the quality of the particular ammo.

French 7.5x54 can be made EASY by using Swedish 6.5x55 m/14 wooden tip blanks or m/12 gallery practice ammo. You simply run the case up on a .311" expander and load and shoot. I, and many others, did this with the MAS49/56 and MAS36. The Lee dies for 7.5x54 have a long tapered expander that does the job nicely. Samcoglobal.com has the m/14 wooden tip blanks fairly cheap right now. When it's gone that's it.

Dutch

JHeath
12-18-2013, 10:45 PM
Hmm . . .

Some of them deprimed beautifully?

Maybe you could make a decapper by turning a .30 cal mandrel with a boxer primer pocket; the mandrel would slide down through the case neck, and use the force of of a boxer primer to drive out the berdan primer.

The boxer primer pocket would be on the tip of the mandrel, and the boxer primer would be installed "backwards", facing out.

A firing pin would run through the center of the mandrel. It would have to be captive, probably stepped and installed through the mandrel tip/pocket.

Such a system would need a strong tube and be carefully arranged to contain the gasses no matter where they vented. The boxer primer might pierce, the case wall might split, or the berdan primer would either pierce or (best case) become a projectile.

I am sure Dutchman knows, but water doesn't compress, so with a hydraulic system if the case splits, water just leaks out.

Gasses compress, so using primers to eject primers risks having a split case become a little bomb, and even an ejected primer would be a projectile to be contained.

The risks seem manageable (especially compared to the 30,000 - 60,000cup cartridges we shoot) and an hour or two on the lathe would probably produce the needed parts. Whether berdan cases are worth the trouble is another question.

If the mandrel reached all the way down to the flash hole, maybe it could near-seal against the inside of the case head around the flash holes, like the "anvil" on my Dillon primer-pocket swager.

Gunor
12-19-2013, 12:10 AM
Maybe I missed it. What size are the berdan primers? I have similar amount of french. I di not realize that even 15% would fire.

Geoff in Oregon