Pop.....Boom

[mattd]

Sometimes I compress the charge down to tight with the bullet and it won't fire. Have always pulled the bullet, but someone the other day suggested removing the nipple and putting a little FFFF under it and using that to set off the charge. Had the chance to try it the other day and instead of the normal cap pop, noticeable pause, then main charge boom, I just got the boom. Guess the extra umpff sped the process up. Since I've been known to "flinch" w the normal delay is this feasible to do regularly. A least with hunting loads when I might load it once per trip and there wouldn't be the constant removal of the nip?

[tomme boy]

After you add the powder, slap the gun a few times down by the nipple. This will get the powder into the lock and you will not have any more hang fires.

[Bullshop Junior]

the old flint locks used a 4F I believe for pan powder. It's basically the same concept.

[Lead Fred]

Your problem is when the hammer strikes the cap, the airflow snuffs out the flame.
Try a "hot shot" vented nipple. Cures the problem 90% of the time.

Or save a bunch of hassle, and buy a flinter :0D

[johnson1942]

try a magspark nipple and you will always have a instant fire.maven sold me a new nipple also that takes a small pistol primer and that never fails also. pop a few caps before you start shooting also to clean out the breech. i also always bounce the butt stock 10 times to settle the powder every time i shoot. a gun should always go off without delay.

[fouronesix]

mattd,

Yes, dribbling FFFF into the flash channel under the nipple is usually the easiest way to get a ball out if loaded without powder. It also works to ignite a charged load that won't light.

The issue is... why didn't the main charge light. Usually it's oil or fouling or a combination of both.
Address that issue first. A regular cap lock ignition with a regular cap should "boom" without any noticeable delay. The only time I've seen the need for a priming charge in a cap lock is when using some of the stubborn-to-light BP substitutes. Dry, clean blackpowder shouldn't require it.

[docone31]

It might be the cleanout screw.
Check that the cleanout screw is not deeply in the flash channel. Also make sure the nipple is not so close to the drum, or breech that the flame is diverted. I once had a piece of metal in the channel itself. It was a flake from threading that blocked the flash. From there, powder would cake up around it.
Once I ground the cleanout screw, and shortened the nipple threads, the primer flash had room to go! It was frustrating at first. The range is 50 miles away, and the cap would not fire the charge. I had to remove the nipple and fill the channel with powder to fire it.
I replaced the cleanout screws with allen screws and verified the primer path was not blocked. Not much filing and it was good to go!
When I clean out the bore, I remove the nipple and flush water through the cleanout channel and nipple threads. Also, check that the nipple is not blocked with powder crud. That can make it intermittant.

[waksupi]

Get a breech scraper, and use it regularly. Without it, you will get these hang fires. Also makes a difference in your accuracy, at least it does in my flinters. If I miss a target and know I had a good sight picture, cleaning the breech face brings the accuracy right back. The breech fouling causes basically the same problems, regardless of caplock or flinter.

[DIRT Farmer]

As has been adressed above it is either fouling or fouling, caused by the gun not being clean enough or oil in the flash channel causing more fouling. I have found every thing in the bottom of muzzleloaders from just plain dirt to paper towels (could still see the pattern well enough to identify the brand) patch materiel, lead shot to the channel mostly blocked by rust in patent breaches and drum and nipple setups. If it pop---bangs look for the reason. Bigger caps and high dollar nipples are not the answer.They may make a change for better or worse but the problem is still there.
And yes I use high dollar nipples on some of my guns, platinum lined on the bullet guns and Purdy style on the compition cap lock shotguns for more reliable and consint ignition.

[Omnivore]

Bigger caps and high dollar nipples are not the answer.

I'll second that. I have the factory nipple on my Lyman and with regular #10 caps it fires like a modern cartridge rifle - no perceptible delay.

Just whacked a nice, young white tailed buck with it last month.

I clean by running a patch up and down the bore while the nipple is removed and the breech is under water, "slush-pumping" water under pressure through the flash channel, then do it again with the nipple installed and the clean-out screw removed. Then pop a cap after it's dried and assembled again, before loading it. If you've let it corrode in there, a good scrubbing of the flash channel is in order. If your gun is put together and loaded properly it'll never hang fire.

And yes; there's a whole barrel full of air that has to escape out the nipple when you push the ball down. If that doesn't get some powder into the drum or snail then you have some "glue" in there. Actually I've never even thought about that before, because I don't have hang-fires. Well OK; I'll define "don't have hang-fires" as being exactly once in the last hundred shots or so, and it was the first shot after being cleaned and the gun sitting for months, and without popping a cap before loading.

This isn't rocket science (OK well maybe it is, but it's simple rocket science). If you have a clean, dry, reasonably grease free flash channel with no obstructions, and you're using real BP at least as a kicker charge, a regular cap on a regular nipple will always make it go "Bang!".

And I always use a 35 cal jag, flattened at the tip, to scrub the patent breech of this 50 caliber barrel. They don't tell you about that in the owner's manuals, and so far as I've seen no one sells a cleaning jag with 10-32 threads for your ram rod to clean a patent breech. You have to figure it out on your own (except that we just told you) and improvise.

[mattd]

Thanks everybody. I feel pretty good about my cleaning, and do it the way a lot of you described. havent tried a breach scrapper, but after reading all the suggesteions i was thinking it might be my old pyrodex. I've had my rifle for about 12 years and can remember buying one can right away, a can of 777 half way thru the first pyrodex, and then just finished that first can up. So it was old.

Got a new can and same problem. My buddy shot it out of his cap lock with no problems.

My clean out is broken and needs extracted, but not protruding into drum.

Could be oil in drum I guess but I cleaned it before this last trip and made sure not to oil it too much. And shot a cap after cleaning.

I'm thinking it could be the nipple. I have a bunch of diff nipples I've inherited and none of the threads fit my drum. So I guess it's not common. I remember a few years ago, right before deer season, I was desperate for one and finally found one that fit the threads, but it dosent quite look right. It's really tall and most of my wrenches don't even fit on it. Might try to find a new one.

[mattd]

So I figured out its 6x.75mm threads, but I need some more help.....

Some have big holes at the bottom like this....http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_238_566_570_575&products_id=5869&osCsid=mg2gq88juj7oqho0e5gd84j6a7

Others just show a pin hole that I'm used to seeing.

Some might just be for pistols. I'm confused. Any suggestions?

[mooman76]

The spitfires and Hotshot nipples start out pin size and funnel out bigger. Their claim is to intensify the flame and allot of people swear by them so must be something to it. I like the hotshots myself and have had no problems with them.

[Anonym]

As some other guys have said, when I clean my sidelock, I drop the whole breech down into a sink full of hot, soapy water and use a mop on the ramrod to draw water back and forth through the nipple and up the bore. The first several strokes (depending on how dirty it is) will push out a stream of dirty water from the nipple. Once this clears up, I pull it out, wipe it off, and either blow or use a compressor to blow out all the water. Then protect the bore/barrel as you would normally and store it for your next shooting session.

When loading, I always slap the side of the buttstock/lock with the palm of my hand to help settle the powder down into the drum. I've never had any issues with delayed/hang fire or failure to fire. They always touch off immediately and are 100% reliable. I'm shooting 777 out of my larger bores and Goex FFg out of my small bores, all percussion.

[walt53]

I run a patch with alcohol down the barrel and a pipe cleaner soaked with the same and when I get to the range I run a dry patch down the barrel; then fire a cap load and shoot. WALT.

[Smokepole50]

I have not hunted with my side locks in awhile because I wanted to go with more modern powders without the ignition issues associated with side lock firearms not using black powder. When I was hunting with my Hawken and Green Mountain LRH barrel I had switched to FFF powder to get a better ignition and more complete powder burn with full house charges. Black powder never failed me or gave a delayed ignition.

Proper cleaning is very important as has been discussed. I would add one thing, I always removed my nipple during the hot soap sud plunging method. I believe this get a better water flow in and out of the breech which helps remove fouling better.

Pyrodex and 777 are good powders but they, at least in my opinion, are more subject to moisture interfering with ignition. When this happens they need a hotter spark as in 209 primer and shorter flash path to have reliable ignition without delay. The closer you get to smokeless powder the harder it is to ignite. This is why Black Horn 209 needs a closed breech system and a 209 primer. 777 is just one step back from BH209 and can also be hard to ignite with just a cap unless you have a very clean flash channel. The problem with 777 is that it leaves a lot of fouling with probably added to the tighten flash channel issues. Save yourself a lot of hassle and use FFF in you side lock and it will always go off fast and without a delay even when hunting in wet or damp weather.

Smokepole50

[Tackleberry41]

Its not always something wrong with the gun or its not clean. I bought a CVA kentucky rifle kit years ago. Put it together and it was just plain frustrating once I got all the other problems worked out with it. At the time I only had pyrodex or 777 to put thru it, real BP just isn't sold most places. Sometimes it would fire, sometimes it wouldn't. You would get the pop, but no bang. Clean, dirty, you just never knew if it was gonna fire, sometimes one cap did it, other times you got a delay before the bang, another time it would take 3 caps. I tried banging the butt on the ground, eventually taking out the nipple and adding a dash of powder. Yea it would fire reliably, but obviously not a good way to do things. I tried different nipples, I was ready to throw that thing into the woods and be done with it.

Then I started using real BP in my 577/450 when I got it. Saw that the real stuff ignites easier than substitutes and is only made worse by the side lock set up. So 5 gr of the real stuff added first, followed by the rest of it in substitute, fired every time. (Yea I just use BP in it now, vs measuring the 2 charges.) It does depend on the weapon, my lyman 54 cal, obviously not a CVA, has no issues. No need for special loading techniques, banging on the ground, or anything else, goes bang every time real stuff or not. But that CVA design...guess its the angles. The lyman is more of a straight shot to the powder. Where the CVA has a right angle for that spark to traverse to get to the powder.

[mooman76]

I've never had problems with my CVAs and I have a few. It is rare but I have heard sometimes the drum where it goes into the barrel, (and being a patent breech and angles like Tackleberry said) and the hole going into the barrel was not drilled quite right and having a partially obstructed hole or too small from not being drilled complete. The drill the hole while the drum is installed in the barrel.