Lyman Centennial Edition Ruger #1

[DanWalker]

Hey guys,
We did Christmas early at my house this year. I unwrapped a gorgeous 45/70 #1. I looked them up and see that they command a hefty price, unfired and with all the goodies. This rifle HAS been fired and has NO accessories with it. It has the tiny bases for the 1870's style scope on it. I have no desire to put one of those on it. I'd like to put a good low powered variable scope on it. Anyone know which quarter rib I need to buy to fit this gun? Thanks.

[Tatume]

Call Ruger. The Lyman Centennial version has a non-standard 28" heavy barrel. Is it even drilled and tapped for a quarter rib?

If the barrel contour permits, you may be able to drill and tap for the No. 1V sight bases. These work very well.

Custom bases are another option.

[Tatume]

Also, Ruger made more rifles than they had scopes. They then put sights on the remainder and called them Edition II. You may be able to get the correct sights from Ruger.

[gewehrfreund]

Call Ruger. The Lyman Centennial version has a non-standard 28" heavy barrel. Is it even drilled and tapped for a quarter rib?

No

If the barrel contour permits, you may be able to drill and tap for the No. 1V sight bases. These work very well.



Custom bases are another option.

Yes, what you'll need to do is D&T two holes about 4-5" ahead of the two rear holes on the barrel. Then you can use two rear factory 1V bases, since the barrel diameter is about the same in this area. DO not use a normal front 1V base for the front mount or your scope will be off kilter.


Also, Ruger made more rifles than they had scopes. They then put sights on the remainder and called them Edition II. You may be able to get the correct sights from Ruger.

Never heard this and I've been messing with No. 1s a long time. Got any documentation or pictures?

There were 1000 of the standard grade made and 100 of the higher grade with different stocks of higher grade wood.

[saz]

Congrats on the T-Rex thumper!

[DanWalker]

Also, Ruger made more rifles than they had scopes. They then put sights on the remainder and called them Edition II. You may be able to get the correct sights from Ruger.

YUP That's what it is. Says Edition II right on the side of the receiver.

[DanWalker]

Congrats on the T-Rex thumper!

Thanks amigo! Now you have yet another reason to come visit again! We will just have to dial about 75 clicks of windage into it though. If the wind picks up much more, I expect to see my 10' logging chain fluttering in the breeze.

[Tatume]

Also, Ruger made more rifles than they had scopes. They then put sights on the remainder and called them Edition II. You may be able to get the correct sights from Ruger.


Never heard this and I've been messing with No. 1s a long time. Got any documentation or pictures?

No, and now I’m sorry I said it. The statement was based on statements made by others. After digging into it, I cannot corroborate the statement. It may not be true.

[gewehrfreund]

YUP That's what it is. Says Edition II right on the side of the receiver.

And it came with sights???

[DanWalker]

And it came with sights???
No. Wife bought it off of gunbroker. It came in a ruger factory gun box. No sights on the rifle. Just bases for that 1870's style scope.

[DanWalker]

Yes, what you'll need to do is D&T two holes about 4-5" ahead of the two rear holes on the barrel. Then you can use two rear factory 1V bases, since the barrel diameter is about the same in this area. DO not use a normal front 1V base for the front mount or your scope will be off kilter.

Is the measurement between the two sets of holes critical? You said between 4-5" that's a pretty big swing(1") as far as machine work goes.

[gewehrfreund]

Is the measurement between the two sets of holes critical? You said between 4-5" that's a pretty big swing(1") as far as machine work goes.

The 4-5" was a little overstated. The standard ring spacing on Ruger No. 1's is actually 3", but if you're mounting a modern, internally-adjusted scope, you can space the bases/rings pretty much wherever you want as long as you can mount the scope between them.
I would go with the 3" spacing, then you can switch scopes between No. 1's without any problem (if, or when, you have more than one)

[DanWalker]

You gotta love Ruger. I called them today to order those 1-v scope bases. Guy on the phone was extremely helpful and friendly. Concluded our business in UNDER 10 minutes. The real surprise was at the end of it when he told me they were shipping the parts to me AT NO CHARGE. Parts and shipping were FREE. Stuff like that gets a guys attention(and loyalty).

[DanWalker]

Could one of you guys with a 1-v do me a favor? Could you measure the distance between your scope bases? Looking for a measurement from the front screw hole of the rear base, to the rear screw hole of the front base. I'd like to put these bases the same distance as a factory 1-v if it works out without any issues. Thanks.

[Tatume]

Could one of you guys with a 1-v do me a favor? Could you measure the distance between your scope bases? Looking for a measurement from the front screw hole of the rear base, to the rear screw hole of the front base. I'd like to put these bases the same distance as a factory 1-v if it works out without any issues. Thanks.

The distance is 2.5 inches.

[gewehrfreund]

You gotta love Ruger. I called them today to order those 1-v scope bases. Guy on the phone was extremely helpful and friendly. Concluded our business in UNDER 10 minutes. The real surprise was at the end of it when he told me they were shipping the parts to me AT NO CHARGE. Parts and shipping were FREE. Stuff like that gets a guys attention(and loyalty).

I hope you told you them needed 2 rear bases.

[DanWalker]

I hope you told you them needed 2 rear bases.

Yes sir I did. Thanks for the help guys!

[DanWalker]

I hope you told you them needed 2 rear bases.

Yes sir I did. Thanks for the help guys!

[gewehrfreund]

Yes sir I did. Thanks for the help guys!

Excellent, and you're welcome. Let us see a picture when you get it set up. [smilie=s:

[DanWalker]

I will. Once bases arrive I will take it to the gunsmith for drilling and tapping. Then It will get some ruger rings and Leupold VX 1 3-9x40.
Any idea what rings I wiil need? Low, med, hi?

[Tatume]

Low rings will clear a 32 mm objective on a tapered barrel. I suspect you will need Ruger medium rings to clear a 40 mm objective, but since you don't have a rear sight in the way you might get away with low. You can't go wrong with medium rings though.

[gewehrfreund]

Thought I'd show you a picture of mine while you're waiting for yours. It's the top one in the picture.
91193

[DanWalker]

Thought I'd show you a picture of mine while you're waiting for yours. It's the top one in the picture.
91193

Yup! That's what mine looks like. I have the gun. I see what looks like 2 bases on yours near the receiver. Are those the 1-v bases I need?

[gewehrfreund]

Yes, those are the two rear 1V bases.

[DanWalker]

Is there anything i need to tell my gunsmith before he starts drilling and tapping?

[gewehrfreund]

Other than the correct Ruger OEM spacing, I can't think of anything.
Spacing of the rings will be critical. I have early No. 1s that I cannot put a scope on that were mounted on a later model. A few thousands does make a difference in whether things are interchageable or not.

[DanWalker]

Other than the correct Ruger OEM spacing, I can't think of anything.
Spacing of the rings will be critical. I have early No. 1s that I cannot put a scope on that were mounted on a later model. A few thousands does make a difference in whether things are interchageable or not.

So, what spacing should I tell him then?

[gewehrfreund]

So, what spacing should I tell him then?


The standard ring spacing on Ruger No. 1's is actually 3. . .I would go with the 3" spacing, then you can switch scopes between No. 1's without any problem (if, or when, you have more than one)

Exactly 3 inches by my measurement, but you should have your smith do the measurement himself on a factory gun.

[Tatume]

Could one of you guys with a 1-v do me a favor? Could you measure the distance between your scope bases? Looking for a measurement from the front screw hole of the rear base, to the rear screw hole of the front base. I'd like to put these bases the same distance as a factory 1-v if it works out without any issues. Thanks.


Exactly 3 inches by my measurement, but you should have your smith do the measurement himself on a factory gun.

The distance asked for by the OP is 2.5 inches. The distance you are giving him is the distance from front hole to front hole (or rear to rear, or more correctly, from center of base to center of base), which is indeed 3.0 inches, as measured on a Ruger No. 1V, as requested. If the OP uses 3.0 inches in the manner he suggested, he will screw up the rifle.

You are correct that the proper measurement is 3.0 inches. But the OP needs to know what to measure, as well as the measurement itself.

[Clay M]

I use offset rings on all my #1's,but that is just me. I don't like to crawl the stock in order to get a full field of view.I had a Lyman #1 at one time. Nice gun for cast bullets,and with the long barrel you can use black powder,but the short throat will limit the choice of bullets.I remember now I traded that gun on a Colt Sauer in 300 win mag.

[DanWalker]

OK, gunsmith just called me and said he doesn't think these bases will work. He said they are showing fore and aft rocking and don't sit flat on the receiver. Any ideas? Did Ruger screw up and send me the wrong bases, or is my gunsmith doing something wrong?

[bigted]

just seen this post ... question I have is this ... is your barrel the heavy octagon of the original Lyman gun? if it be the octagon barrel ... then is it tapered at all or is it a "bull" type straight octagon?

the #1V barrel is round if memory serves and I think it was or is tapered a bit. if so then it will make a difference which way the mount base is pointing. my winchester "hunter" is very visibly tapered and the front base takes this into consideration with which way the base is milled and if installation is wrong then the scope will tip up to 1/8th inch one way or the other till the base is installed correctly.

serves to do some examination with the barrel before any holes or installation at all is commenced.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I am still kicking myself on one of these. I had the opportunity to buy one in the box with all the goodies several years ago for $1000. A friend bought it, and stuck a 30" barrel with the factory contour on it chambered for 45-90. Shoots like the hammer of God!

Rich

[DanWalker]

Barrel is round, just like the top gun in the pics. Gunsmith said bases are rocking fore and aft, and look like they were made for an octagon barrel. Wondering if Ruger sent me the wrong ones.

[bigted]

maybe they did but I cant think of a rifle that Ruger made that was octagon barreled . I thought the Lyman Centennial was octagon and had to come back and edit this to correct myself. I looked up the Centennial model and it for sure did have a round barrel.

I would re-contact Ruger and allow them to help you with the tipping problem. they will know for sure what works and what don't and they would be the natural folks to steer you in the rite direction ... and ... if they did send the wrong bases ... allow them to correct the problem.

[pietro]

OK, gunsmith just called me and said he doesn't think these bases will work. He said they are showing fore and aft rocking and don't sit flat on the receiver. Any ideas? Did Ruger screw up and send me the wrong bases, or is my gunsmith doing something wrong?


The bases both should mount on the barrel - none on the receiver.


.

[pietro]

.

FYI:

RUGER/LYMAN 1878 CENTENNIAL RIFLE: .45-70 Govt. cal. - 101 cased sets mfg. in Grade I and 1,000 in Grade II. Mfg. in 1978 only.

Grade I has hand engraving, custom stock, 28" long "D" weight barrel, tubular 4X Lyman Century scope, rifle SN's L-001-1878 to L-101-1978.

Grade II has photo engraved frame, SN's L-78-0001 to L-78-1000.

Over-run rifle's as above, w/o engraving, production numbers unk.


.

[DanWalker]

The bases both should mount on the barrel - none on the receiver.


.

Right that's what I meant. I went and looked for myself today. Bases rock forward and rearward. The barrel has some taper to it also. Is this going to be an issue? Will front base need shimmed? Have you guys that have done this had any issues with this?

[DanWalker]

Hello? Anyone? Kinda needing an answer on this...

[bigted]

not trying to be a S A but what did Ruger say when you called them back?

also I doubt that many have tried to mount a modern scope on a Lyman Centennial model as they came ... I think ... with the long scope didn't they?

its possible that nobody here has the answer you seek. this is the why ... of why ... I suggested re contacting Ruger and explaining your predicament. matter of fact I think id allow my "gunsmith" to contact them as he will be able to explain to them exactly what the problem is and do so in their language.

[saz]

Would a factory quarter rib follow the taper? Like is on the sporter and tropical models? That is my only guess.

[gewehrfreund]

Hello? Anyone? Kinda needing an answer on this...

Haven't replied because I don't have much to add other than what I already have earlier. Mine has two rear 1V bases on it and works fine (sits even, doesn't rock, etc.). There shouldn't be any "rocking" no matter what base you set on the barrel, so my guess is that the problem rests with the base you have. If your gunsmith knows what he is doing and has a mill, he should be able to true up the bottom(s) of the base(s) you have. Or, maybe try another 1V rear base. Good luck.

[bigted]

Dan ... how goes the battle?

[DanWalker]

"Gunsmith" (using the term VERY loosely) threw up his hands in defeat. I just took it home, oiled it and stuck it in the back of the safe for now. Thinking I may have it rebarrelled in the future. Just gonna sit and think about it for a while. Need to find a REAL gunsmith that knows number ones for when I do finally make up my mind about what to do with it. Selling it isn't an option. This is the first gun my wife has ever bought me in 24 years together.

[bigted]

very cool on the ... "This is the first gun my wife has ever bought me in 24 years together" ... deal. that is for sure a keeper and I don't blame you one little bit on it being a "keeper" just for that reason alone.

what area do you live in, in Wyoming? I am sure there are very good smithy's fairly close to where you live. another option is ... how handy are you with hand tools ... such as files and hand grinders n such? don't know how a feller could mess up with an old fashioned try. don't work now so really nothing to lose. might put out an inquiry to others that live in Wyoming to find out who is recommended there .

I lived in Wyoming for a spell and after living here in Alaska ... we will drive for 350 miles just to go fishing ... compared to that I bet you will find a good smith in a 350 mile radius. keep us posted as I for one am curious as to what the heck is going on with your configuration.

[DanWalker]

OK, After thinking a LOT about this, I think I would like to just get a 22-24" sporter weight barrel screwed on and a scope mount installed. Any suggestions on a gunsmith I could send it to who would be up to the task?

[bigted]

Dan ... I hate to see you remove that barrel from a "unusual" Ruger. as noted ... not a whole bunch have been made in this configurement. if ... however ... you do consider going ahead with your desire of a sporter barrel ... I would be VERY interested in your take off barrel.

I know for a fact that ANY gunsmith worth his salt should be able to configure blocks to "fit" your barrel contour. if they have a mill and any knowledge at all ... the way is clear on what to do. I would bet that there be somebody on this here forum that has such a machine and a willingness to "help" you out of your predicament.

maybe "Red River Rick" or "John Taylor" or "Buckshot" ... these fella's do outstanding work and have the required knowledge to put you on your path ... maybe someone else has some suggestions as well.

[DanWalker]

Found a guy here locally that does good work. He is one of those guys who is so busy he doesn't need to advertize. I will keep you all informed as to how it turns out. For now, I am just having him mount the bases on it and I will take it out and shoot it and see how I like it.

[bigted]

that's AWSOME. glad there is somebody available to give a helping hand for your GIFT from your wife. do keep us posted on your progress.

[goofyoldfart]

well now, Dan---- How does it shoot?????? Hmmmmmm!! really waiting to know with bated breath. hope all is well with that special rifle. God Bless to you and yours.

Goofy:mrgreen:

[DanWalker]

Shoots great! I have been feeding it LEE 405 grainers loaded over 13 grains of Red Dot. The wife even managed a 1.5" three shot group at 100 yards with it from the bench! It's just gonna be a big old fun gun we haul out when we want to have some fun ringing steel gongs and stuff. It's too pretty to drag through the brush, and too heavy to lug up the mountains.

[bigted]

fantastic ... glad you got it runnin. happy to hear it shoots so well. now you can do some playing with it and other powder/boolit combo's.

now the fun begins ... I also have had very good success with the Lee # 459-405-HB boolit. it has done me a solid with practically any load with just about any powder. my fav is a 70 grain load of GOEX 2F blackpowder compressed under this Lee boolit without any fan fair or wads ... just plain compressed black powder and a seated boolit.

[Dogmann]

I'd love to see the pics of the modern scope on this rifle !

also did Ruger give you a problem when you asked for those 1V blocks?

[marlinman93]

Since this topic thread has been revived, I'll add some info. The OP's gun is NOT the first Lyman Centennial built in 1978. The original Lyman Centennial is a different gun in a fitted case, with all the accessories serial numbered to the gun. They are the guns that bring huge dollars, not the later version the OP has.
My Lyman Centennial:

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/6572ruger_1.JPG

[bigted]

That sir is another dandy. I remember when they came out ... Want and desire never came together with extra cash ... Therefore ... No lyman comemorative at my house.

Color me green.

[gewehrfreund]

Since this topic thread has been revived, I'll add some info. The OP's gun is NOT the first Lyman Centennial built in 1978. The original Lyman Centennial is a different gun in a fitted case, with all the accessories serial numbered to the gun. They are the guns that bring huge dollars, not the later version the OP has.
My Lyman Centennial:

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/6572ruger_1.JPG

The OP's gun is a Lyman Centennial, so I'm not sure what you're talking about saying his is later and yours is original? It may not have come with the case and accessories, but a lot these got separated over the years.
Also, your rifle pictured is the common 1 of 1000 version, not the much more valuable 1 of 100 with higher grade wood with a different stock pattern/checkering, and gold inlay on the hand-engraved metal (versus the etched metal on the more common version).

If you want to talk rare (~ valuable), my unmarked overrun example (1 of about 40 or less) is one to look for.

[marlinman93]

I know the OP's gun is a Lyman Centennial, but it is neither the 1 of 100 or the 1 of 1000 IF it came without all the appropriate accessories. At least as far as looking at it in a value reference. Once stripped of all the correct accessories it is simply a nice Ruger #1 in .45-70, and can't go by the listed values of a complete Centennial any longer. So it indeed is NOT original any longer, if separated from all it came with.

[bigted]

No matter of value in my estimation ... How they shoot is key. I have a colt commemorative that first off i loaded her up with black powder and let her rip. Super fun and as the smoke cleared i could almost hear and see the huff n puff of collecters. I had fun tho and wouldnt have a gun in the house that i couldnt shoot ... Thats me tho

[gewehrfreund]

I know the OP's gun is a Lyman Centennial, but it is neither the 1 of 100 or the 1 of 1000 IF it came without all the appropriate accessories. At least as far as looking at it in a value reference. Once stripped of all the correct accessories it is simply a nice Ruger #1 in .45-70, and can't go by the listed values of a complete Centennial any longer. So it indeed is NOT original any longer, if separated from all it came with.

OK, I can see your point, but as long as you have the rifle and scope (which are serial numbered), the other accessories can probably be found with enough time and patience. Given the bulk and weight of the complete package, some might say that finding only the rifle and scope is a plus!

And I will stick by my assertion that the unmarked overrun guns are highly collectible without the box and accessories. As far as I know most of these only came with the case and the scope at most. Mine came with a scope, but no case, and I'm more than OK with that.

[marlinman93]

Wasn't saying the others weren't of some value. Just wanted to make sure folks weren't looking at values listed in references and thinking they apply to all of these guns. As you mentioned, a 1 of 100 is worth more than a 1 of 1000. And the scope is not the only item serial numbered to match the gun. Finding a scope will add value, but if it's not the one serial numbered to the gun it wont add the same value.

[bigted]

ooooooo i kick myself for not trying harder when they were "reasonable" in price. have seen several in my lifetime and just never pulled the trigger on one ... daaaaaaang!!!

[marlinman93]

I bought mine from the original owner used. He said he couldn't resist not firing it, and that he knew it would hurt the value. I got mine for under $1,000 with case and all accessories.

[bigted]

I bought mine from the original owner used. He said he couldn't resist not firing it, and that he knew it would hurt the value. I got mine for under $1,000 with case and all accessories.


very nice and color me green for your find!

[DanWalker]

Dan ... I hate to see you remove that barrel from a "unusual" Ruger. as noted ... not a whole bunch have been made in this configurement. if ... however ... you do consider going ahead with your desire of a sporter barrel ... I would be VERY interested in your take off barrel.
.
Still interested? Gun is at Regan Nonnemans getting rebarrelled to 308. How much folding money do you figure this barrel is worth? I will include the scope bases with it.

[bigted]

PM sent