I'm freezing by butt off. Suggestions?

[MBTcustom]

I know lots of you are going to be calling me a wuss, but here's the problem: When I'm buffing out guns and working in the shop, there is not a whole lot of movement, and whirling machinery is always going, which makes baggy clothing a bit of a concern. My buffer is powerful enough to do some serious damage, and my lathe could turn my upper torso into hamburger if I got wrapped up in it (17" swing).
The lack of clothing, coupled with the sedentary nature of this business, along with the fact that I am working with steel, using tools that keep the air moving constantly, makes gunsmithing a painful proposition.
I'm using a sunflower propane heater, and it works well, but it's draining my propane tanks, and sucking profit right off the top (what little there is). Every time I turn around I have to drop another $60 to fill my bottles, and that right there is getting old.

I'm trying to come up with a cheaper way to stay warm, but the problem is that I have no space! Im doing this whole operation in a single car garage, and the buffing/bluing operation is in a 10X16 divided shed out back.
I'm thinking about putting in a small pellet stove in the buffing room (if I can find one cheap)
but as you can see, there isn't a whole lot of room.
90773
The main shop is where I'm working most of the time, and there is even less room in there. You see the workbench on the left, and the milling machine on the right. One of the locals is standing there in the middle. She just showed up one day and wouldn't leave LOL!
90774
Point is, I'm packed in here like sardines and I need a cheap way to stay warm.
I may not get anything done this season because I can't afford it, but I think that during the summer I might get a good deal on any sort of heating apparatus that I would want.

I was just hoping that you fellers could offer some suggestions for a portable heat source that I can heat the place with for less than $10 per day.
Thanks!

[imashooter2]

Insulation is what you need.

[Pb2au]

A few thoughts;
1) Do you have natural gas in your home now? In Ohio, natural gas is (relatively) cheaper than propane and electric. If yes, perhaps you can plumb your workspaces with gas and install heaters that run off it.
2) How is your electric cost in Arkansas? Same idea as above, but utilizing electric heaters. I installed a 220 1ph unit in my Father in laws garage and it doesn't do too bad.
3) In my dad's workshop, (we rebuild horse drawn carriages) he found on older oil fired furnace. It is about the size of an old school upright radio. We burn kerosene in it and it does a darn good job. You will have to watch craigslist and the like for them.
4) Look for the old school military heaters. Like this;
http://video.sportsmansguide.com/v/1224998690/-new-u-s-military-surplus-dual-fuel-stove-heater/
They are simple affairs that burn wood or gasoline, kerosene, and even diesel fuel.
5) Waste oil furnace. Google that and have a look.

I hope this helps

[Pb2au]

Insulation is what you need.


Beat me to it!!
Lots and lots and lots of insulation.

[Miller]

Insulation is what you need.

My thoughts excactly. Also some tight fitting long underwear. Look at ski clothing, I have multiple layers that are forum fitting and not bulky.

[Garyshome]

Lots and lots and lots of insulation. In the walls and roof!!!!!!! Wood stove? Ain't nothin cheap now a days.

[CastingFool]

I don't think pellet stoves are the way to go. I have one at home, and all it is, is an expensive space heater. Plus you have to be on the lookout for the pellets to be on sale. You can get them cheaper if buying by the ton, but I don't have space to store 50 bags of pellets. A small wood stove would be the way to go, if you have a place to get free firewood.

[jsheyn]

Good insulation and quality wool clothing! Pair that with either a wood or propane heater and your gonna be sweating

[xman777]

Check into a used oil heater and then get all your friends and family to give you their discarded motor oil. It warms my shop nicely for free.

[flounderman]

You can go with a setup where the woodburning stove sits outside and pipe the heat in. you can have a return pipe back to the furnace and use an exhaust fan in the return to keep the fan from being in the heat. They make commercial models but it wouldn't be hard to improvise. The kerosese nipco heaters will take the chill off but you couldn't use them for long in a closed area. Insulate the ceiling, at least. You lose more heat out the top than on the sides.

[Mumblypeg]

MY shop is a 20X24 building with 9ft ceilings . The walls and ceiling are well insulated. I have a 220 electric heated that I got at Northern tools, it strait wires in. It will get toasty in there in just a few minutes and has a thermostat. Don't know the exact cost but the power bill is not much. It hangs from the ceiling and is out of the way.

[atr]

Insulate and seal the doors/windows.....
try using an electric powered oil filled radiator...
also....high wattage overhead lights (300watt) will generate alot of heat and will provide great lighting
forget about wood stoves unless you want another job cutting/splitting wood....and wood stoves are dangerous in a small machinery filled space...YOU DON'T WANT TO back into one when its hot and the general fire hazard is not worth it.
atr

[Artful]

Cheapest quickest way is to heat you! not the shop.
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Long-Underwear-Reviews

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKfu9_Dr0nE
you may also want to look at heated vest or socks (electric battery powered)
Also remember you loose a lot of heat out of your head - put on your Santa Hat!

[dragonrider]

As others have said insulation should be your #1 priority. When that is done your heating requirements will be smaller. Should you want a small pellet stove here is one solution that takes no floor space.
http://www.amazon.com/Stove-Company-2400-Window-Pellet/dp/B0044726Z2

[375RUGER]

I would get me a little pot belly wood stove. If you can manage a supply of free used oil from somewhere, put a 1" steel plate in the stove and rig up a copper tube to drip the used oil onto the plate when it gets hot. That burning oil will be like free heat.
I'd think a used pot belly could be had for $100 or less.
You could also fashion a wood stove out of a 15gal barrel if you can find them.
I heated a whole single wide trailer with one of these, many winters ago:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200395468_200395468
and saved hundreds of dollars on propane.
I gave it to a buddy of mine and he is heating his house with it this winter and saving ME a bunch on propane, otherwise you could have it.

Pellet stoves are convinent but cost more to operate than solid wood, in most cases.
According to the United States Department of Energy, the average cost of a cord of firewood or a ton of wood pellets is $190. But for a true comparison of the costs, you have to look at not just the price of the fuel but also the heating value of the fuel, also measured in BTU, and the efficiency of the heating appliance. Using averages for all three, the Energy Information Administration's Heating Fuel Comparison Calculator estimates it costs $15.15 to produce 1 million Btu using pellets and $9.09 using solid wood.
.
My solid wood cost is way less than that because I get it for $50-90/cord and burn about 2-3 cords a winter heating a 2200sf house.

[bangerjim]

Insulation! My backyard shop which is 12x18 where I do all my loading both winter and summer has R38 in the ceiling and R19 in the walls. I mainly insulate for the 115F summers! My little 8K BTU A/C will take it from 95 to 80 in about 30 minutes with an outside temp of 110.

Here in AZ we are seeing 76 today! (normal 65) I have a small old Munkey Ward floor heater (1200W) that I use in the morning to take the edge off , but the shop does not get below 58 normally even if the night before is in the mid 30-40's) .

With a good blanket of fiberglass wrapped around you workspace and all the cracks filled with caulk, your temps will level out and any heat ($$$) you put in will stay a lot longer!

banger

[btroj]

Insulate man, insulate. You are trying to heat the world, keep the heat in the shop where you need it.

[AlaskanGuy]

Whatcha need there is a toyo or toonami fuel stove... Runs on diesel, and very very warm and efficient.... Most folks around here have them.. Takes just about 5 gallons to heat the place for 10 days... And the heat is dry... Wont add humidity like propane..... Take it from an alaskan, we are experts on keeping warm... This is what they look like...90804

Of course your fuel consumption will prolly be way less then ours.... As right now it is -3..... Starmac is prolly sitting at about -40 right now ....lol

[paul h]

Heating a small building is a real challenge as most heaters are sized for larger spaces and you'll completely blast yourself out of there with even a small wood stove. Not to mention not only do you need the space for the stove, but also clearance around the stove.

Insulate first and that should dramatically reduce your fuel consumption. Other then that, you'll need to balance out the cost of a new heater vs. fuel savings for the propane heater. I'd venture to say many other heat options will take several years to over 10 years to pay off the investment in fuel savings.

[gnoahhh]

Is the garage attached to the house? If so, why not run an extension of whatever heats the house out to there? Ie: a duct if it's forced hot air, or a pipe to a radiator.

I had a cabin in Pennsylvania that was heated by a Kerosun wall unit. It burned kerosene, took in fresh air and exhausted both to the outside. No smell whatsoever, and was extremely efficient. It was about the size of a suitcase. Kept the place toasty warm for pennies.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tim: Do you have any "Handwarmers" Like the Zippo ones Or Jon-E versions. I have used these extensively when working outdoors in the winter here in CA down to 30 F.

If you have your wife make a belt with two pockets in it to place two hand warmers over your kidneys, or have her sew a couple of pockets in a Carhartt vest if you wear one of those frequently. That way you don't have a bunch of loose clothing on to get wound up in the machinery.

I assure you,,, you could sit on your **** in a freezer all day long and be quite comfortable. Heating your kidneys also heats your blood supply and that heats your whole body. Keeping your extremities warm is the key to being comfortable in cold weather.

There are also electrically heated inserts for your boots which would help, they are about $100 and are rechargeable. so there is only start up costs.

The Hand Warmers are about $20 each and all you need above them is regular lighter fluid to run them which is only about $3 for a pint which should last you a long time. This is a cheap and simple way to heat yourself and is also very "adjustable" meaning you can adjust your heat output according to what is needed on any given day.

I like the diesel heater mentioned above by Alaskan Guy. He should know what he is talking about and I know they are the preferred method of heating smaller spaces up there because I watch "Buying Alaska" on TV. Very efficient and will run on other fuels as well. Kind of like Diesel engines will.

I also have a small Wood stove made out of a 20MM ammo can. I got it from Cabela's many years ago. A regular fireplace log you can buy at the local Walmart will burn for 4 hours and the thing will run you out of a one car garage in 20 minutes. It also will burn anything and can really save your butt in an emergency. It is not very heavy and as a result doesn't hold the heat really well. With any wood burning fireplace or stove,,, "Mass is King." That's why pot belly stoves are made from cast iron, and all really good woodstoves are really heavy. You could get yourself a piece of 8-10" schedule 80 or 160 pipe about 2 feet long and make a dandy stove from it that would probably make enough heat for you . You've got to be able to throttle a wood stove or it will over heat your space. also known as "running you out."

I have a small propane stove that I use when it is really cold in the shop and it works OK, This is only needed for a few days a year sometimes out here and I have also used the radiant heaters that clamp onto a Propane Tank and they direct the heat at objects or your **** and are more efficient than heating the air in the long run. Those patio heaters would also be a quick solution however they aren't very efficient unless you run them on Natural Gas.

Another thing to look at is a "Waste Oil Heater." They run on used motor oil tranny fluid or whatever you've got. I know guys who heat really large shops with them. Most are car guys or run tranny shops or the like so the oil is essentially free. Look at the Northern Tool Catalog for a variety of ways to heat yourself and your shop.

I use the big fan to cool the place and to generally move air, and believe me it does!

All that said,,, It is 80 degrees here in Ojai today and I'm in Shorts and a Tee Shirt. :mrgreen:

It might just be cheaper to move out here? But then there's that Liberal thing you have to deal with.

Randy

[TenTea]

First thing is first: Close the dang doors! :kidding:



Otherwise the answer is liquor. Lots and lots of liquor... ;)

[seaboltm]

If you are in Arkansas you may be close to a saw mill. In east Texas I could get truckloads of saw mill ends/sliver for a few bucks a pickup load. It was close to free, but not quite. I had a local mill that sawed a lot of oak and pecan, so I had access to lots of hard wood remnants. Made a wood box by lining a 55 gallon drum with fireplace mortar to reduce burn through of the metal. It worked great and would run you out of that shop.

[TES]

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/8108/yn4o.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img834/493/vdwq.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img197/2277/ibw.JPG


I'll bet you have everything you need except the gas vent pipe and door hinge! Also use fire caulk for the pipe to the stove!

[MBTcustom]

Thanks for all the suggestions!
I'm especially eyeballing that ammocan stove and the 5 gallon bucket stove.
That's exactly the size I'm looking for in the buffing room. Of course, the bluing room has no need for heat.
Here in Arkansas, we are surrounded with woods and things to burn. In fact, I grew up feeding woodstoves (parents had three of them) so I would much prefer to go that rout.
I don't think the hand warmers are the way to go. It definitely targets the problem area, but the problem is that I'm holding onto cold steel for so long. It's just fine if I have a radiating heat source close by.

[dbosman]

Insulation and a vented kerosene/oil heater.
If you had a large dog house you could butt up to the shed, a small salamander would heat the whole shop up in a hurry and keep it warm. You'll need to make a fire proof collar for the salamander front end.

[Bullshop Junior]

I don't think pellet stoves are the way to go. I have one at home, and all it is, is an expensive space heater. Plus you have to be on the lookout for the pellets to be on sale. You can get them cheaper if buying by the ton, but I don't have space to store 50 bags of pellets. A small wood stove would be the way to go, if you have a place to get free firewood.

Yea the pellet stoves suck. I have one and the house is always cold and it girs threw between 3-5 bags a day at $5-8 per bag

[bangerjim]

Pellet stoves are for hunting tents! My buddies use them when they go up north in the winter.

Works great in a tent!

banger

[Bullshop Junior]

Pellet stoves are for hunting tents! My buddies use them when they go up north in the winter.

Works great in a tent!

banger

I havn't seen one small enough I'd want to carry around and put in a tent....

[TES]

You wanna burn it really hot outside first to get the paint off, use a house fan behind it to circulate the air and replace the gasket on the lid with one for a wood burning stove. Lastly it got my shop to 50 deg when it was -15 outside. So it should work great there.

[waksupi]

I've got a pellet stove for my tent, smaller than a Riley. It will run you out!

[mosby's men]

home brew passive solar heater using rain gutter down spouts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z96uT86PlI8

[blikseme300]

Tim, just move here to deep south Texas.:smile: Temps today were in the mid-70's. Cooling in summer is costly though.:x

[geargnasher]

For ceilings, cheap, fast, and effective: 3/4" foam board with foil backer. Put the foil side down and tape the joints with Beagling tape to seal it off. You now have a reflector of both heat and light over your head, which is good. R-value is low, like 3, but it stops drafts, doesn't sift fiberglass into everything and amplifies your light. Just doing that alone will make it where either space can be made comfy with a 1500-watt electric oil-radiant heater or two. You can't beat electricity for safe, inexpensive heat in small places. BUT, it requires you seal up the drafts and insulate ceilings. Duct tape and cardboard goes a long way toward stopping drafts.

Our living room is 800 square feet plus a back hall and has 12' ceilings, a single, radiant 1500-watt heater keeps it a cozy 70 right down to freezing. Below freezing we need the wood stove, but if I were working in it 55-60 with proper undergarments is no problem provided the metal and tools are heat-saturated to room temp.

Good electric heaters are 50-75 bucks and cost 10-20 cents per hour to run. You can leave them on low overnight and reduce the warm-up time when you're ready to work. Think about it.

Gear

[Love Life]

Put on some form fitting layers. My Garage is unheated and uninsulated. -20 outside=-20 inside the garage. I wear long johns (sometimes two pairs) top and bottoms. Then I'll throw a vest on and a hoodie. It actually stays close to the body due to all the layers keeping it all taught. For feet (not sure if you need steel toe) I wear VB (Vapor Barrier) boots. Keeps the tootsies warm.

Other than that all I can suggest is an electric radiator heater.

[RP]

I looked at most post and did not see the jet heater. Well that's what I call them you can pick up one for a few hundred bucks they run on LP gas Kerosene or diesel fuel. I picked up a small one for my shop and run it on diesel fuel at 4 bucks a gal but I can fill it for 20 bucks roughly and it will run a good amount of time on a tank. I heat a 24 by 24 wood shop with it and a 24 by 30 area in my other shop. I has a temp control so you can set it to come on and off as need and only takes it a little while to heat the shop. Call me a wuss I like it in the 70s out in the shop no coat needed. The cost of the heater is high but the LP ones are cheaper I think mine is around 50000 btu. The one I use at work I think is more then twice that and has wheels to move it around. The good thing I love about them is I can turn it on go in the house to make a showing can come back to a warm shop. Another thing is its blowing the heat so its moving the air around and directing the heat to where I may want it warming up first.

[historicfirearms]

Check out these Nu-way stoves.
http://www.nuwaystove.com/model965.php

It's a small stove, either propane or wood, made for sportsmen to heat ice shanties or hunting blinds, etc. I had one in my ice shack, it was tiny, about the size of a 50 cal ammo can. I could sit in my t shirt when it was 10 below zero outside.

[Dan Cash]

Tim, you are a handy fellow. Look up Rocket Stoves. They range from little to whole house systems. I am experimenting with the concept to keep stock tanks from freezing.

[oscarflytyer]

Top quality underlayer for you. Under Armor prices are worth it for their underlayer clothing. Wool Hat. Hand warmer insole pads - they work GREAT! Keep your head and feet warm! Another neat trick - put a pair of stick on heat pads over your kidneys! They will do WONDERS!

For heat - one of the 'can' looking kerosene heaters. They are amazing. I can heat up the back open screen porch in 30-40 deg weather where we are very comfortable. Slightly stepp initial cost, but very cheap once you start using it.

[smokeywolf]

Tim, can I assume that you're wearing thermal underclothing? When I worked in the MGM Machine Shop, we had one pretty good heater, but it was the only source of heat in the 6,000 sq. foot shop. Unless you were working within 30 feet of it, it was like having no heater. Worse than a lack of heating in the main shop was no AC. The only AC in the shop was on the 100 sq. ft. inspection room which was kept real close to 68* and 50% humidity. Temps in the main shop would vary between the high 40s and the low 90s. I used to tell the guys, "We don't condition the air to the men. We condition the men to the air."

During the Winter, most wore thermals under flannel shirts under shop aprons. Naturally we would roll sleeves up above the elbow. I wear a barber's smock instead of shop apron. Zipper front, covers your upper torso better than an apron, short sleeves, and gives me real handy front waist high pockets for my mike(s), crib notes, pocket machinist's practical guide, etc.

Like the other guys have pointed out. Insulation is probably your best place to start. We used to use an insulation called "theater guard" in the screening rooms, sound stages and sound booths that was similar to that which gear describes. It was available in 2 or 3 different thicknesses and although was primarily a sound proofing, worked very well as a thermal barrier too.

smokeywolf

[waksupi]

home brew passive solar heater using rain gutter down spouts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z96uT86PlI8

I made a couple solar heater similar to this, for my cabin, and shop. I'm not impressed. Maybe if I had a couple dozen on them.....

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tim: On insulation for your shops which you need to do anyway, try the stuff that look like bubble wrap with foil covering. It is R19 it is relatively inexpensive. I bought mine at Lowes but have since found larger quantities cheaper at a Farm Supply Outfit that sells those large fabric covered buildings for storing farm equipment etc.

The material is very easy to use just cut to size and staple in place and then seal the seams with the silver tape you get with the insulation. I did my whole machine shop and eventually will do my upstairs loft area as well as the rest of the garage.

I also soundproofed my shop with that sound absorbing board that looks and smells like compressed Horse Ship. It works OK, but my shop is not that noisy anyway.

If you decide to make an Ammocan Stove the hot tip is to make some liner plates to go on the inside and bottom. what this does for you is increase the mass so the stove holds heat better. The problem with these types of stoves is that they have to be ran harder to generate enough heat to keep running. This results in higher fuel consumption. Just by increasing the mass it makes it so you can choke the air down lower and still keep the fire burning, which results in longer burn times and lower fuel consumption.

I have seen some German stoves that were made out of 1" thick soapstone. They basically look like a piece of 18" Square tubing about 5' long stood on end. They have what is known as a tortured flue, which makes the flue gasses run thru a series of baffles which insure that all of the combustible gasses are burned before they exit the stove. This is very high efficiency and these stoves will heat a whole house and do it cheap and they are good looking too ,,, but they are also about $5K. All this stuff was figured out to the max over 100 years ago so it's nothing new. We just have to learn about it.

I learned about it in Edison Steam Generation School, and everything that is true about a Steam Generation Plant is true of a wood stove.

Do some research on the computer, the number of different designs of wood burning stoves would fill volumes.

Randy

[7Acres]

100% agree! Layer up and retain the heat your body throws off. I recommend as many wool layers as possible. If you get some nice wool layers you can use them anywhere you need to stay warm. Wool is a great durable insulator that keeps your warmth in and the cold out.

Two or three wool socks on each foot will keep your feet warm even when wet! I wear a pair of surplus military wool pants between my long johns and jeans. 100% wool hooded overshirt on top and I stay very comfortable. Cuffs snap tight and don't get in the way of hands or machinery. Wool will not over heat you either.


Put on some form fitting layers. My Garage is unheated and uninsulated. -20 outside=-20 inside the garage. I wear long johns (sometimes two pairs) top and bottoms. Then I'll throw a vest on and a hoodie. It actually stays close to the body due to all the layers keeping it all taught. For feet (not sure if you need steel toe) I wear VB (Vapor Barrier) boots. Keeps the tootsies warm.

Other than that all I can suggest is an electric radiator heater.

[Artful]

Wool will not over heat you either.

I can't say I agree with that statement - but wool is wonderful stuff.

[rintinglen]

You might want to plump up a bit. Put some internal insulation in.:kidding:

seriously though, those who cry "insulation" speak nothing but the truth. Insulate your work areas, plug up the drafts, and a cheapy Wally World electric heater will keep you warm. If you don't insulate, you'll darn near have to set fire to the place to keep warm. I prefer electric heaters for indoor use, but there are many ways to skin this cat.
Back in my Michigan youth, my Dad and I built an Ice Fishing shanty. Until we insulated it and put in some windows, you could not burn enough wood in our mini-franklin stove to keep warm. After we put in a couple rolls of fiber glass, it was a much more pleasant experience to go fishing in January.

[Adk Mike]

Google, Detroit Radaint .

[jmorris]

I needed to heat my shop a few years ago without a flame inside (putting gloves on something you need warm to paint doesn't work very well) and rigged this up.

It is a 55 gallon drum that I made a door that stood off from the top about 5" and it sits inside a 3'X5' 1/2" thick pipe. I used foil backed chip boards for the end caps and some really long all thread to hold it together.

Build a fire in the drum and there is a blower on the back of the contraption that forces air around the drum and out the duct into the building.

It also takes up zero space, just a board that you open and close the window onto.

[jmorris]

This is what the back looks like. I mounted the blower up high so it cooled down the stack first, then it takes the heat from the drum and blows it out the bottom of the front.

It would be more efficient if the blower intake was connected inside the building but I decided I didn't need it. If I opened the damper on the drum I could get air leaving the duct into the shop at almost 400 deg F.

[jmorris]

I don't have any photos of it apart but here you can see that the bottom of the drum is only a few inches below the bottom of the door I made. The air space all around the drum and the fan is how you get heat without smoke, flame or CO.

[Lefty SRH]

Insulation in the shop is what you need. My wife and i recently bought a new place and finishing the shop is my winter project. First thing i bought was wall insulation. No heater in there yet and i can already feel a difference when i go in there and work. The coat doesnt stay on long.

[izzyjoe]

Well bud,looks like you and me are in the same boat, I have a small shop at 20x20, no insulation, but I do have a 55gal wood stove, and there's day's that I hate to go out there, but a man's gota do what a man's gota do. And sometimes I'll get it to hot in there and have to open the doors, or go outside a bit, it's losing battle fighting the cold, and you know how the weather can change around here, last week the high's were in the upper 30's, and now it's in the 70's, talk about crazy weather! I'm sure you already have thermal under's, I can't stand them, but it's a nessisary evil. I've worked in many shops that were unheated, and we did'nt seem to get much work done on those long winter day, but a little wild turkey sure does keep you warm! Well I hope you figure out something, cause cold weather looks to be coming back next week!

[MBTcustom]

Well bud,looks like you and me are in the same boat, I have a small shop at 20x20, no insulation, but I do have a 55gal wood stove, and there's day's that I hate to go out there, but a man's gota do what a man's gota do. And sometimes I'll get it to hot in there and have to open the doors, or go outside a bit, it's losing battle fighting the cold, and you know how the weather can change around here, last week the high's were in the upper 30's, and now it's in the 70's, talk about crazy weather! I'm sure you already have thermal under's, I can't stand them, but it's a nessisary evil. I've worked in many shops that were unheated, and we did'nt seem to get much work done on those long winter day, but a little wild turkey sure does keep you warm! Well I hope you figure out something, cause cold weather looks to be coming back next week!

You got it bud. Thanks again for all the suggestions fellers. I'll figure something out, but I don't think there's much that can be done this side of dropping some money I don't have. This is definitely something I will be working on next year though.
I just called Lowes and they want $10 for 24" of stove pipe! That's going to be $75 + even if I make the stove itself for free. I went to the scrap yard and crawled around in the junk looking for pipe today and no joy.
Oh well, it's not a big deal. I busted out the thermals and got them washed.

[jmorris]

I just called Lowes and they want $10 for 24" of stove pipe!

And it's very thin snap together seamed sheet metal. I used box tubing for the one I built.

[zuke]

Heating pad's inside coverall's?

[geargnasher]

Go to the HVAC aisle and buy the galvanized steel ducting in 5' sections for about $5/section.

I still maintain that putting foil-backed foam insulation board on the ceiling would improve things 100%. It's around $10 for a 4x8 sheet.

Gear

[btroj]

Gear, you may need to make a road trip......

[Sweetpea]

Go to the HVAC aisle and buy the galvanized steel ducting in 5' sections for about $5/section.

I still maintain that putting foil-backed foam insulation board on the ceiling would improve things 100%. It's around $10 for a 4x8 sheet.

Gear

Gear, I've been in/around the insulation industry for 12 years.

I agree that it would help... AFTER some fiberglass insulation.

If your walls are just studs, and will stay that way, use FOIL backed batts.

If you're going to cover it, use unfaced batts.

If your walls are already covered, any decent insulation contractor in the area should be able to come and do a drill&fill with fiberglass, cellulose, or foam.

AVOID the cellulose.

Brandon

[geargnasher]

Oh, I totally agree on batts+ foam board, I was just thinking most bang for buck and hour spent. Adding batt insulation first on the ceiling would improve things about 300%, but I've "post" insulated shops before, while they were crammed with tooling, materials, and gear, and it's a pita, the fibers get everywhere.

Gear

[DCM]

Tim I would suggest visting some of our members in AK for a couple weeks.
Upon returnig home it will feel like summer.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tim go back and read about the hand warmers in the vest on my first post. They really will keep you completely warm .

When you put them over your kidneys they heat your blood which in turn heats your whole body.

I'm sure you have a vest you could have Wifey sew some pockets into.

Randy

[starmac]

When I built the stove for my extremely drafty shop in N.M., I used a joint of used sprinkler pipe. They scrap the old steel ones pretty regular, and it makes excellant stove pipe.

The non electric pellet stoves are small and would be very easy to build too.

[6bg6ga]

First of all you need insulation in your work space and secondly a cheap source of heat. Your probably tired of paying every month for marginal heat so why not step up a notch. Check out wast oil furnaces. People will gladly give your their waste oil, transmission fluid, power steering fluid and so forth. Basically any oil based product can be used as fuel. A friend of mine was paying $1500 and up to try to get his work space to a warm 65 degrees and it was breaking the bank. He went to a waste oil heater and the fuel is free because people are more than happy to give him the 5 or 10 gallons of used motor oil they have waiting in their garages.

As has been stated the idea of baggy clothing is a no no near production machinery period. Want to loose an arm? A long sleeve shirt is the way to do it when using a mill or lathe. I saw this happen years ago and as a result of the accident long sleeve shirts were banned in the machiney departments.

[MBTcustom]

That's why, even in the winter, I dress in Dickies short sleeve work shirt, long tail, tucked in. No watch, no rings, no necklace, no gloves. I wear safety glasses all the time (just had them make my prescriptions into safety lenses and got the side shields). I do have long hair, but I keep it pulled back tight.
Ever since I saw a picture of a guy that used a lathe to turn his upper torso into hamburger, because an apron or something got sucked into the lathe, I really take a lot of care to keep my dress code tight and sharp.

But hey, this is Arkansas. There's only one or two months of the year that I need to worry about temps dipping below 50 degrees. I'll just suffer for the time being. Hot weather will be here before I know it.

[6bg6ga]

Been looking into the heaters and its really simple to construct something that would work in your garage/work room. I looked at two basic types the drip oil and the pressure siphon type. They can be viewed on you tube. Its very possible to be able to make a nice heater and use cooking oil, kerosene, used car oil in it. You'll be able to heat your shop space for little or nothing.

[TCLouis]

You seem to be a bit handy, get ye to the youtube and look at waste oil heaters/burners.

Check/ask anyone that donates Used Oil about gas, kerosene, diesel or solvents that have been added in the oil, they can make things run MUCH differently so blend large batches to give the best (safest) results and this allows one to filter (leaves and dead cats) and decant any water in your blending tank.

ALWAYS some water in the used oil, trust me.

250,000 BTU commercial heater uses about 2.5gallons an hour if I remember correctly.

Commercial used oil heaters run about 8500 bucks here in Tennessee.

Bet 50 - 100 bucks and some elbow grease would make an interesting contraption that would have you warm and toasty.

[EMC45]

That's why, even in the winter, I dress in Dickies short sleeve work shirt, long tail, tucked in. No watch, no rings, no necklace, no gloves. I wear safety glasses all the time (just had them make my prescriptions into safety lenses and got the side shields). I do have long hair, but I keep it pulled back tight.
Ever since I saw a picture of a guy that used a lathe to turn his upper torso into hamburger, because an apron or something got sucked into the lathe, I really take a lot of care to keep my dress code tight and sharp.

But hey, this is Arkansas. There's only one or two months of the year that I need to worry about temps dipping below 50 degrees. I'll just suffer for the time being. Hot weather will be here before I know it.

I have seen that pic too, it haunts me.

[6bg6ga]

Check out www.patriot-supply.com

PN 17147 and PN 30609

You probably want a .75 unit which will burn 3/4 gal an hour.

Very easy to construct your own burner that will burn about anything without diluting it.

[Col4570]

Keep your Feet off the ground,make up some Duckboards to stand on.Wear several layers of clothing and two pairs of Socks.This works for me,It gets quite cold here and standing on a concrete floor is not the way to go.
You wont be as snug as a bug in a Rug but it will help.

[W.R.Buchanan]

tim: NO you're not allowed to just endure it. We've got a lot invested in this thread and you're going to burn something by God or we're gonna have to come back there and take matters in our own hands.

You will produce heat some way and I don't care if you rub two sticks together to do it. Lighting farts is only a short term solution.

It was only 78 here today in CA. There is so much hot air and Sacramento it keeps the whole state warm.

Randy

[Agrotom]

Move to the balmy state of North Dakota!!!! We have a heat wave going on right now 25 above 0 wow its hot out here. :-D

[6bg6ga]

I have proposed an idea that not only will keep you warm in the winter but can also be used to melt lead so you can cast in the summer. Its not hard to put together and it will allow you to heat your space without breaking the bank. Its not hard to get a hold of used motor oil, transmission fluid, cooking oil, just to name a few. They do NOT need to be duluted down either but may require that A) you start the unit with a propane torch or B) that you have in ignitor in it like a torpedo heater does. Actually it wouldn't be hard to convert a torpedo heater to use other fuels.

I know what its like to try to work in a cold garage in the winter and its not fun. It would be a lot smarter to put together some type of heater than it would be to keep trying to work in your present environment.

[jmorris]

I have proposed an idea that not only will keep you warm in the winter but can also be used to melt lead so you can cast in the summer. Its not hard to put together and it will allow you to heat your space without breaking the bank.

I looked into them a few years ago before I just installed an old Franklin fire place I had sitting in a barn down at the farm.

Do you have details and photos of the one you built?

[6bg6ga]

I haven't built one yet. I just proposed the idea here. Its a simple concept that involves the purchase of a suction type nozzle and an adapter. The oil is siphoned from a container/tank to the fuel inlet and compressed air is supplied to the air inlet of the siphon nozzel. What I have invisioned is instead of delution of the fuel/oil/whatever the heater be installed in the tank. Ignition would be a spark plug type ignition like what you have with a torpedo heater cost about $30 for the ignition less if used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-A8uoWdBB8

[David LaPell]

The control room where I work is adjoining a large two vehicle garage and the room next to where I sit houses rows and rows of computer servers so the A/C has to be left on making it about 60-65 degrees and some days much colder. I have already had three colds so far in the last six months including one right now, and since its a balmy 4 below zero right now I can only imagine that room's warmth. Here's the kicker, I have to wear our uniforms which are paper thin. I wear a pair of long underwear pants under them and thick socks. I would start with those and some insulation. I do my bullet casting in an old open shed so it's about 30 or so when I am out there although the little Lee pot helps with some radiant heat.

[lmcollins]

Look old buddy. It's 04 degrees above zero here in northern Ohio. How can you complain? They want to come and insulate my house next Monday. Turn off the furnace, and stick a line or two through a window and blow in insulation all day.

Seriously: have you thought about some electric baseboard? After you insulate it is often the cheapest thing. Thermostates and all. Also, how about the kits you buy to make a wood stove out of a steal barrel? You put a door in and end, and a collar for a stove pipe out the other end. You fill the bottom with firebrick and build your fire on them. The kits come with lega and everything. Try Northerntool.com Item No. 16160-2301. Then all you need is stovepipe a damper, and maybe a bit of a cap for the pipe. Rig a pipe collar for the pipe through a window with some cheap ply wood.

The problem is you need to cut and stack your wood about six monthes before you want to burn it. You cannot burn wet or green wood without giving it time to dry out. If you go the drum stove route route don't forget to make up a hot plate to fit onto the barrel for a tea kettle. I want coffee when I visit. FYI: the hot plate goes on top of the barrel in the back where the stack comes out.

I'm not kidding about the The 0.4 degrees and the insulation!

[cbrick]

I can't believe that in 75 posts nobody has mentioned insulation. [smilie=1: There is no such thing as too much insulation. Heating the great outdoors is not an option and that's what your trying to do. Regardless of what type of heating unit you decide on it will take far less of it with good insulation & windows & doors sealed correctly.

BTW, have you considered insulating that shop?

Rick

[DCM]

But hey, this is Arkansas. There's only one or two months of the year that I need to worry about temps dipping below 50 degrees. I'll just suffer for the time being. Hot weather will be here before I know it.

Tim I know I razzed ya a bit about "cold", but the suggestions about insulating the shop are very good for the heat and cold!
We have been caught in this "polar vortex" lately and I shudder to think what our heating bill would be without good SEALING and insulation!!
Same in the summer when it is 115 deg F warmer, I hear what people with drafty houses are paying to run the AC $$$ compared to us YIKES! As a big added bonus you will be able to better control the humidity and better protect tho$e tool$.

[Petrol & Powder]

Lot's of good suggestions on this thread. You could call Al Gore ask if he'll send you some of that global warming he promised !

:kidding:

[dog2blue]

Years ago I insulated my camp with commercial roofing foam board. The foam was yellow, the coating was black. The insulating material was the acquired from the dumpsters at a prison construction project. It was various thicknesses and tapered to facilitate water drainage from the roof. The insulation was cut 14 1/2" wide to fit between the 16" centers of walls ceilings and rafters. I just kept installing until all space was utilized. You can just about heat the place with a candle. Barter trade and beer....construction workers all hunt....
Good luck.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tim,,, is your butt still cold? You haven't commented on this thread for some time yet it keeps motoring along.

Randy

[MBTcustom]

I've created a monster.
I apologize. I created this thread in frustration after a hard day in the Arkansas "cold", not thinking about the fact that there are booliteers in Alaska that know much better what cold is.
What I'm dealing with here is a warm spring day to much of the membership, and I was just griping.
I apologize.
Now, what I have done is to wear warm socks, and just go ahead and splatter my good camo jacket with buffing lint/paste. You were right: keeping my core warm had a surprising effect on how long it took my hands to get cold.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Good to hear you figured out basic shop warmness. We actually need you to survive.

Randy

[btroj]

Not just survive but thrive. We want a thriving gunsmith, not just a survivor.

[beezapilot]

My heater in the shop is a stationary bicycle, 10 minutes and I'm warm for an hour.

Like gnoahhh said- When I lived in Maine I had a ToyoStove, very much like a KeroSun, amazing unit. The exhaust preheats the intake air, and the intake air cools the exhaust, maximum efficiency. I had one that I ran out of a marine fuel tank and 5 gallons of kero lasted a surprisingly long time. That with insulation should keep you happy in your shop.

[MBTcustom]

Just wanted to give you an update. Turns out that clothing is perfectly acceptable means of warmth if you use it right.
I have had to start wearing compression socks recently because the veins in my legs are popping out of my ankles. Doc told me to stay off my feet as much as possible, and I told him that I don't have much choice in the matter, so he prescribed me these crazy socks. Turned out they are a double blessing because they really help keep my legs warm!
Next, I consigned my old duck hunting jacket to be plastered with buffing compound. It's very warm, in fact it's my favorite jacket for outdoor use.
Next (and really this made the biggest difference) Sgt. Mike brought me a mill-spec stocking cap. I don't know what's in that baby, but geez maree it keeps my head warm! I was darn near sweating out there and there's ice and snow on the ground, and the whole place is frozen solid!

Since my core is warm, I find that the buffer actually heats up the parts I'm buffing and as long as I keep my hands on the hot parts whenever possible, I'm actually quite comfortable and my fingers don't even get close to really cold.

Herter66 and his dad came out over Christmas holiday and ran natural gas to my bluing tanks. This free'd up the money I was spending on gas for the tanks to be focused on heating the main shop (garage).

I'm in high cotton fellers.
Thanks to everybody who helped me out, offered advice, and time.

[jmorris]

Now that you have NG out there you have all sorts of options.

Maybe we should just keep the thread going, talking about howw you are going to stay cool in a few months.

[cbrick]

96184

[btroj]

We have lived that this winter Rick.

You guys get enough snow and ice Tuesday?

[nekshot]

its still cold here so heres my three cents. My shop is insulated and I use one of those dura flame electric heaters cause I don't want no open flame and it does a good job for a dollar or so a day. But I need to conserve dollars so I only use it in the reloading room and the rest of the shop stays kinda warm.

[6bg6ga]

Just wanted to give you an update. Turns out that clothing is perfectly acceptable means of warmth if you use it right.
I have had to start wearing compression socks recently because the veins in my legs are popping out of my ankles. Doc told me to stay off my feet as much as possible, and I told him that I don't have much choice in the matter, so he prescribed me these crazy socks. Turned out they are a double blessing because they really help keep my legs warm!
Next, I consigned my old duck hunting jacket to be plastered with buffing compound. It's very warm, in fact it's my favorite jacket for outdoor use.
Next (and really this made the biggest difference) Sgt. Mike brought me a mill-spec stocking cap. I don't know what's in that baby, but geez maree it keeps my head warm! I was darn near sweating out there and there's ice and snow on the ground, and the whole place is frozen solid!

Since my core is warm, I find that the buffer actually heats up the parts I'm buffing and as long as I keep my hands on the hot parts whenever possible, I'm actually quite comfortable and my fingers don't even get close to really cold.

Herter66 and his dad came out over Christmas holiday and ran natural gas to my bluing tanks. This free'd up the money I was spending on gas for the tanks to be focused on heating the main shop (garage).

I'm in high cotton fellers.
Thanks to everybody who helped me out, offered advice, and time.

Is your shop insulated? If not add some insulation and some heat. Its a heck of a lot cheaper to heat the space you work in than it is to run up several Dr office calls. It wouldn't be the smartest move to end up with pheumonia but then again it just my opinion.

[targetfreak]

Long johns!

[Newtire]

My father-in-law made a nice little wood stove out of a Jeep can. He cut the bottom out and just used the flap for the door and screwed a pipe elbow into the place where the cap screws on. I forget what he used for a stand but he used lumber scraps for fuel and it heated up the house pretty good. I got some black long underwear that also made a big difference. Very thin and lightweight but some kind of space age stuff that keeps you plenty warm.