Hw77 or Hw77k

[GARD72977]

I have been shooting A lot of silhouette and im going to get a new rifle soon. I am shooting open sights. Kind of thinking of a HW77 because of the sight radius. I really like the HW77K in the laminated. Anyone have any experience with these guns?

[grizzlyadams]

both models are extremely accurate, and use roughly the same powerplant as the r9 breakbarrel , but in an underlever platform. they used to be built with a square section mainspring (supposedly superior by design) not sure if that is the case anymore. the k(carbine) may have a slight edge on accuracy for most shooters because of the shorter lock time. either gun will be exceptionately accurate however, and either will be a great choice.

[GARD72977]

you brought up something I never thought about. The faster lock time of the K just might make up for the longer sight radius of theregular model. The weight is not a problem for me. I am practicing for competition with a 9 pound ML so I want to have something similar. I assume the weight of the AR helps with the accuracy by stabilizing the shot cycle to some degree. I have been putting some money back for a new air rifle but don't have all of it yet. It may be spring before I can buy one. Winter is rough for me. Even though I have some money I cant really spend it.

[Pakprotector]

Are you for some reason restricted to a springer? If not, let me suggest a PCP. A .177 Marauder will shoot circles around a '77/'97.
cheers,
Douglas

[GARD72977]

I am only practicing so Im not limited to anything. I do like the springer because it has a long lock time like the ML I shoot in competition. My next gun will be a very nice opensight springer. I do want a PCP but I have all my hobby budget allocated for next year so It will be awhile. Im wanting to start out with a regulated FX when I go that route. Going to wait unitl I can buy all the support equipment at the same time.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Gard: I have a HW77 and the Lock time or "Shot Time," (time from trigger break to pellet leaving barrel.) as Beeman referred to it, is only a few milliseconds difference. IE the difference in length of the barrel.

The guns are heavy and would do what you want. I have had mine for many years and it is a very accurate and fairly powerful.

I have to tell you though, it is not in the same league with the R1. The R1 is a bigger gun, it is definitely more powerful, and for what you are trying to do I think it would be a superior choice. Like I said I have both and the break barrel design I feel is more friendly to the shooter than the underlever design. The break barrel is also easier to load and cock.

I also would recommend buying a .22 cal version, which both my HW77 and R1 are. The pellets available just do more damage than a .177 will. The R1 delivered 1" penetration on a dry phone book at 50 yards! The HW77 is in at about 1/2" with the same pellet.

Both are excellent air rifles and will last you for the rest of your life and anyone coming after you that choses to shoot the gun. They are as well made as the vast majority of Generic Firearms and in many cases better. If they are taken care of they will be around as long as any firearm and I guarantee you will shoot one a helluva lot more than any firearm you've ever owned.

Hope some of this input helps you with your decision.

Randy

[GARD72977]

The reason I was looing at the HW77 is that sporter class in silhouette is dominated by TX200 and HW97. The HW77 is basically a HW97 with iron sights and a stock that is shaped for the use of iron sights I thought that it would make sense.

[Pakprotector]

The R1 is a step in the right direction. An RX2 in 20 cal can be adjusted right up to the class power limit with its ram air pressure. There have been plenty of Beemans visiting, and I have yet to regret the 5mm RX2...even though my hot-rod, regulated, 20 cal Marauder shoots circles around it.
cheers,
Douglas

[W.R.Buchanan]

Either one will do what you want to do it just the R1 is more powerful and will work better as a hunting rifle should you decide to pursue that.. Mind you the HW77 will work as a hunting weapons as well, it just isn't going to be quite as powerful.

Both guns have the nearly the same sights, if ordered with sights. They used to be standard but now they are extra.

Airgun Silhouette is shot a 20,30,36,45 Yards or Meters which ever is the setup. Either gun will work at those differences. I can see no advantage that the HW77 has over any Break Barrel rifle. The break barrels are easier to load.

As I said I have both and have been shooting the HW 77 for 25 years. I recently acquired the R1 and after a few hundred rounds I have concluded that the R1 is a superior gun for that game. It is heavier, it is more powerful, and it just holds more solidly on target. I think this all comes down to personal preference.

Which ever gun you chose, take the time to go to the range and shoot the gun at the all the different distances on paper Silhouette Targets so you can get the sight adjustments and proper sight picture for teach target at each distance. Showing up blind to a shoot is a waste of time if you are actually serious about shooting the game, and will result in frustration and poor scores.You need to do the home work.

I am about to change my rifle for Rimfire Silhouette from my Mauser ES340B to my newly acquired Springfield M2. I have to go to the range on an off day and shoot targets at all four distances to figure the exact sight setting for the receiver sight and the exact "Sight Picture" that will generate dead center hits for each target. Obviously this will be done off a bench, but the sight picture that yields the hits is the key thing here, and it is exactly the same off hand.

Typically the correct sight picture is having the targets foot sitting on top of the front sight, and side to side indexing on the leg or front leg of the target. Learning the correct sight picture for each target is the key to this game. And you do need to write it down so you don't forget it.

With the same basic sight picture from each target known then it just becomes a matter of adjusting the rear sights elevation to each distance to yield the hit using the same sight picture. You need to write this down as well.

With all of this data in hand you know exactly where the rifle will shoot at all required distances, and you know what the required Sight Picture is for every target. All you have to do is pull the trigger at the right time.

I go to these events and watch guys chasing their sights around all day and after the first few corrections they make they have no idea of where the gun is shooting any longer. Now they rely on blind luck for hits.

Don't be this guy. Do your home work and you'll Kick ****!

Randy

[GARD72977]

Thanks for the info Randy. Maybe the fixed barrel guns have a advantage when they are scoped. Before I decided on the HW77 I was looking at the HW90 because it is a gas ram. You can adjust the power level. This gun will be a dedicated silhouette gun. I think that the lower power level guns are doing better in field target and silhouette.

I have a set of 1/10 scale targets and Im building a range behind the house. I only have the rams set up at the moment. If we dodge the rain I would like to set the rest up this weekend.

I appreciate you taking the time to put your experience in writing. You have made some very good points.

I am only using this for practice. There are not any silhouette matches close to me. If I become good enough I may travel to a match to shoot. This is mainly to get my score up in a Muzzleloader woods walk. We shoot steel falling targets. I do not plan to adjust the sights. I need to learn to shoot with different sight pictures. I am taking this very serious and recording "ALL" my practice sessions. There are no "do overs" every shot makes up that months average. It is not plinking for fun. Every shot counts and I keep up with my percentage of hits. It really makes me try harder.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Gard: You've got the right Idea and the right Attitude. The point about the various sight pictures applies to not changing the sights even more so than if you change the sights and use the same sight picture.

Your point about writing all of your sessions down is a key factor.

Many people do not understand that marksmanship in this country is not a new thing and all of this stuff has not only been done before, it was done 100 years ago better than it is today.

Military Marksmanship as taught in WW1 and II showed how to actually operate the sights in a manner conducive of hitting a man sized target out to 600 yards with Iron Sights, and everyone was taught this. That's what the "National Match" is all about. Shooting at 200,300, and 600 yards from various field positions, and under time pressure is the essence of Military Marksmanship.

Understanding how sights are calibrated and shooting the correct loads to make them work as intended is all been worked out before. Sighting a gun in to "Mechanical Zero" is a necessary factor. And if your loads don't duplicate Military ammunition exactly then you simply shoot the gun at the various distances and record what the elevation settings end up. It works for any gun.

All Army and Marine Shooters were issued a record book that they were instructed in the use of, and everytime they shot their sessions were recorded by them for future use.

I personally think this is more fun than any other aspect of the target shooters regimen. People who practice these routines progress and those who don't chase their sights.

All of the information is out there and all that you must do is find it and learn it.

Matters not if you are shooting a Garand, a Black Powder Rifle or an Airgun, all of the basic principals are identical.

I would also recommend a CMP clinic and I know some are available around where you live. Call the CMP which is near you.

Randy