Lyman 4500 Problems

[alexanderkidd]

I'm pretty new to casting, and got into the game with the Lyman Master Casting Kit and included Lyman 4500 lube sizer.

At first the handle was very difficult to crank with the included Super Moly lube. I went ahead and purchased the heating element for the unit, which didn't come with it for some reason. That seemed to make it much easier to crank, and better flow into lube grooves.

Since then though, lubing bullets has been quite a mess. Some of this is probably my newness to the whole process, but I believe I've gotten through intro problems like pushing the bullet in too deep, etc. But the unit seems to ooze lube out of the bottom, at the end of the sizing die. It also gets to where lube oozes out of the sizing die at the top when there's bullet in it and the sizing die plug is totally flush with the top of the die. It kind of slowly forms a lube ribbon at the top.

All of this drops lube on the floor and makes bullets quite a mess, requiring a lot of wiping and cleaning excess lube. Also I'm only seeming to get about 200-300 bullets lubed with a stick of Super Moly, Orange Magic, or Lyman Alox, which seems like not a lot for $5 worth of lube product.

I've been tempted to drop lubing in the unit completely and just tumble lube with Lee Liquid Alox, but I had hoped I could at least get the Orange Magic working since it claims to be a low-smoke lube... My auto pistol reloads tend to be smokier than I would like.

Is there something I'm doing wrong to have so many problems with lubing with a 4500? I really didn't anticipate sizing and lubing to go so slowly/be so messy.

[gspgundog]

Are you leaving the heater on all the time? You have to control the heat by turning the heater on and off. Or in the case of the 4500 heater plug and unplug it. Your bullets will start to look a little "wet" when you are getting to warm or you will feel a change in pressure when you turn the wrench. As it cools you will again feel the change in the wrench.

[alexanderkidd]

Will that keep it from oozing out of the bottom too?

[462]

Lube that is too hot, combined with too much pressure, will cause lube to migrate out the bottom of the press and out the top of the die. Lyman's 50/50 and moly lubes shouldn't require any heat, unless the ambient temperature is below room temperature. Eliminate, or reduce the heat, and back off the pressure.

The 4500, whether alone or in the kit, does not come with a heater.

[OuchHot!]

I do not have experience with the 4500, my latest machine is a 450. There is a balance between lube viscosity and leakage and the relative depth the bullet is pushed to in the die. That is at room temperature! As you heat the lube you reach a point where it is likely to flow all over the place. I would get a dimmer or other control for your heater and use the bare minimum heat to keep from turning the linkage into a pretzel. I have run some pretty stiff lubes just using a desk lamp pushed a few inches from the reservoir on my 450. I think that you might have too much heat.

[alexanderkidd]

I was using too much heat, things are smoother now, thanks everybody.

One more question, are bevel-based bullets always going to get lube on the bottom or is there a way to prevent that?

[JeffG]

Something I've learned is that once you have the depth right, you can feel when the wrench handle is starting to get a little stiffer and you can stop there. Run 4-5 bullets through the sizer and don't crank on the wrench handle again until you start seeing the grooves not fill completely. You certainly don't need to crank the handle with every bullet. You'll quickly get a feel. I keep a rag close by on the bench with a little mineral spirits so I can wipe and dry the base if lube has migrated.

You can tell by the design that when you press the bullet into the die, as the top of the die insert passes a lube port, if there is a bevel base or too much pressure, lube under pressure may migrate under the base of the bullet. If you are using bevel base bullets, I understand you can punch small circle of poly-styrene like meat comes in and use as a 'gasket' so to speak between the base of the bullet and die insert. I will compress under the base of the bullet but the beveled edge will be filled by the poly-styrene. I am using a bevel base bullet in 9mm but haven't found it to be bad enough yet to want to do something about it.

[Walter Laich]

Maybe it's just me but the small amount of lube on the BB bullets is a non-problem. I load and shoot them with the lube on and I'm happy with the results

[1hole]

Cranking too hard on the lube wrench adds a lot of leakage. There's no need to fill each lube groove 100% full, 80% is usually more than needed.

You may have your bullet stop set too low, make it just enough to allow the top lube groove to be low enough to get filled. And hold firm down pressure on the handle during filling so you won't get lube pushed under the bullet's base.

[OuchHot!]

I call the lube on the base of a bevel based boolit my scientifically designed lube cookie. works for me.

[prs]

Mine is a 450. Purchased it with a heater many years ago, but never even plugged the heater in until a few weeks ago when I started using BAC lube. Had been using Felix, Emmerts, and NRA before, but there were softer. I could use the BAC without the heat, but it is a bit too stiff for comfort. Well, like the OP, I had messy ribbons and lubed bottoms until that DUH moment when I figured out about 30 minutes with heater on before a session and pull the plug would keep that lube running soft for a loooooooong time and no mess. Har, one evening a week or so back I was called out on an emergency and I forgot about having the sizer warming-up. Next day I found nice blob of red wax art on the floor --- oops.

The technique described by JeffG above works well for me, especially with a fresh hollow stick just mashed in with air pockets trapped. I can often lube 50 Lyman 452460 lube hungry boolits without cranking the crank any more and it is way quick. I may devise a way to intentionally inject air into the chamber to allow that; fastest lube/sizing going this side of a Star. Normally, for whatever reason, I do not get lube on the bottom of boolits, even bevel based ones, not sure why, just lucky, I guess.

prs

[Spawn-Inc]

Something I've learned is that once you have the depth right, you can feel when the wrench handle is starting to get a little stiffer and you can stop there. Run 4-5 bullets through the sizer and don't crank on the wrench handle again until you start seeing the grooves not fill completely. You certainly don't need to crank the handle with every bullet.

Tell that to my 50 cal 700gr bullets Lol!

I find with 50cal stuff I only get 1 bullet per ⅛" of a turn. With 45cal stuff about 2-3, with 38/9mm stuff about 3-4 bullets and with 308cal about 5.

Thats with Bens red lube and no heater in 65f room temps.

[prs]

I guess you are adding that Ben's Red the way I add my Own BP lube. Melt a dose and pour it in. Solid fill thar way with no trapped air to act as a spring. Whn I do that, I have to turn the pressure screw every bollit too.

prs

[Spawn-Inc]

I guess you are adding that Ben's Red the way I add my Own BP lube. Melt a dose and pour it in. Solid fill thar way with no trapped air to act as a spring. Whn I do that, I have to turn the pressure screw every bollit too.

prs

It was my plan to make hollow stick molds but I never got around to it, so now I do melt and fill the Lyman. It doesn't but me having to crank the handle every time though.

[GP100man]

It`s truely a balance on the pressure screw & warmth of the lubes.

As far as boolits go , BB will always have the ribbon ,a caliber specific foam disc (from styrofoam) will help but not eliviate the lube.

Now this is the big fuss ya see over dia. of cast boolits, everyone likes FAT boolits .001-.002 over the sizer so it seals while in the die & fit the firearms of course.

Trying to lube undersized boolits for the die can get messy/frustrating also !

Start adjustment on the boolit by starting hi & working down, sometimes 1/4 turn can make a big difference on groove fill out !

GP :cbpour: