Shiloh Queations

[Socal147]

I have some questions about these rifles and I don't want to wait for replies from Shiloh.

Are these BP only rifles?

Can they handle medium 45 70 loads. (enough to table about any animal).

Do they require a FFL? I live in Komifornia.

Thanks
Patrick

[CanoeRoller]

If you take a look at the Shiloh forum, you will see how hot you can load a Shiloh. Yes, they require an FFL.

BP in a 45-70 will table any animal in North America, and you will find many posters here will recommend that you use BP, as you will find the rifle to be more accurate and more pleasant to shoot.

[Socal147]

Thanks Canoe. I have never reloaded a BP cartridge but I am guessing it is the same except for the BP vs smokeless. And the crimp is not needed. Kind of surprised a BP rifle requires an FFL. I did read that Shilohs are capable of smokeless loads but I am not experienced in these rifles. I am hoping to start my adventure tomorrow AM.

[Dan Cash]

Black powder loading is a good bit more than just substituting black for smokeless though the principles are similar. Try black, it is a science unto its self and a lot of fun learning how it is done. I have a Shiloh plus a couple of lever actions in which I only shoot black. Plenty of power and efficiency but not a very good sniping set up.

[w5pv]

If it was manufactured before 1898 I don't think you need a FFL and is a BP.Least that is what I was told about a 32/20 winchester that I own was manufactured in 1892.

[country gent]

Black Powder loads will take any game on this continent in the appropriate calibers with black powder loads. I perfer thre true Black powder loads for tradition and historic reasons. The Sharps will handle some stout loads, probably more than most really want to shoot. Manufactured before 1898 and reproductions of dont require an ffl to transfer but most manufacturers want it for liability reasons, also these rifle can also be had in modern smokeless chamberings at times which is another reason they give for wanting the transfer thru a ffl. Beautiful accurate rifles that have alot of history behind them. If you really feem the need to hot rod a single shot buy a Ruger Number 1.

[Socal147]

Gent, I generally don't load hot. I just want the rifle to be strong enough to handle the moderate loads. Can the Shiloh be had in a smokeless version?

[gandydancer]

Country gent is right. with a Ruger # 1 you can hot rod it and make it real nasty on both ends. PS I have both a Shiloh & a C Sharps rifle and I shoot smokeless loads all winter long.:p Also my loads of smokeless I keep any where from 1200 to 1800 fps only because of some neck surgery. most of the time around 12-1300 just for fun plinking.

[JohnnieDavis]

I think what these gents are trying to say is YES. A Shiloh Sharps can handle BP or common sense smokeless loads. I have one that was in 45-70 now in 40-65 and I run smokeless in mine. They are the same gun, there is no difference between a smokeless and black powder current production Shiloh Sharps. The friend I got my Shiloh from loaded almost exclusively BP through it. 5000 smokeless rounds later it's still a sweet shooting gun. You said you don't hot load your ammo for the most part so you're golden.

As far as the FFL, these are modern production firearms so you do need one. If it was a muzzleloader or manufactured prior to 1898 you do not need one, but seeing as these are modern cartridge guns you're outta luck and do need one.

Not to sidetrack you but if you aren't brand specific, I would recommend you take a look at C. Sharps as well. Gun for gun I'd say the quality is about the same and the C. Sharps will run you a tad less and a whole lot less wait time for you're rifle.

[Socal147]

C. sharps....... I will check it out....... Thanks All

[BruceB]

The Shiloh rifle is available from the factory in a couple of smokeless-powder chamberings. One of them is .30-40 Krag, and I don't recall the other.... maybe the current smokeless .45-70?

Kirk Bryan, the owner of Shiloh Rifles, has stated that the Shiloh rifle will tolerate any load that can safely be fired in a Ruger #1. THAT covers a lot of ground.

My own Shiloh fired plenty of smokeless rounds as a .50-2.5, and in its present re-incarnation as a .45-2.1 (.45-70) it does the same thing.

YES, you may load smokeless in a Shiloh without worry, as long as the loads are within normal operating limits.

[country gent]

Social147 I wasnt implying that and didnt mean to. My Black powder loading in 45-70 pushes a 520 grn bullet out at just under 1300 fps. By no means a "heavy load" but it routinly drops the rams ( roughly 65 lbs) at 500 yds with no problems. One issue with smokeless powder in these big cases is the air space left over. The Sharps Pendersoli, Shiloh, C Sharps all will handle smokeless loads to appropriate pressure levels. I have seen 45-70 loads that approach 2000 fps with smokeless loads. Sr 4759 and several other smokeless powders, substitute black powder and even the Holy black 1f or 2 f (some use 3 f) all will work very well in these rifles. Call Shiloh and C sharps arms with your questions Ill bet the person who answers the phone can answer them right there on the spot for you.

[Socal147]

Thanks all. I sincerely appreciate the info. I really like that high wall, but they are all beautiful firearms. One consideration I have is a stock that can be used left and right handed. My right eye is toast and I want the option to switch if and when needed.
Gent, absolutely no problem. I am amazed daily on the many aspects of this "hobby"!

The 1874 Military is sure a hotty. ;)

[JohnnieDavis]

C. Sharps also makes 1874s I believe. But if you're looking for a true ambidextrous rifle the high wall might be the way to go. Same thing need an ffl and can use both smokeless and BP loads.

[Gunlaker]

For smokeless I definitely agree with country gent. SR-4759 seems to work very well for me, at least with the 405gr bullets I've tried it with.

Chris.

[Socal147]

I have some 4759 on order. I need to get a decent 400 grain mold. I don't normally shoot farther than 200 yards. You guys are at some serious ranges on your targets. Sweet! I would like to use this for hunting but most of the time will be killing paper or ringing metal. I do appreciate the response and will be speaking with either Shiloh or sharps tomorrow. Tough choice to make.

[country gent]

One of the stand by bullets for 45-70 is the lyman 457125 it is a close copy of the 500 grn round nose. Mine come from the mold at 515 grns or so from 20-1. This bullet normally shoots pretty good in most rifles. Another Ive had good results with us the Lyman 535 grn postell bullet. Again I cast this from 20-1 and load over black powder. They may need to be slightly harder alloys over smokeless loads though.
Another suggestion is buy some bullets cast lubed and sized to test, when you find what works buy the mold for it.

[Socal147]

Thanks Gent, I will check it out.

Decided on the Sharps HighWall 45-70. Got the process started now the difficult wait begins..............

[gandydancer]

One thing about this fun game your getting into is your choice of a rifle from Shiloh or C sharps will be a good one. and the highwall in 45-70 is a great choice. welcome to the madness.

links http://www.powderinc.com/

filler http://www.blackdawgecartridge.com/catalog/bd_filler.html

[Socal147]

I contacted CSharps today to start the build. Got another 90 days until completion. I sure do hope they are faster but I am stoked..........

In the meantime I can shoot BP rounds out of my Marlin 1895 GS for practice. J/K

[JohnnieDavis]

Enjoy! Post some pictures when it come in. What kind of features did you get on it? Stock, trigger, sights bbl etc

[supe47]

Socal147- Love mine. C Sharps estimate of 90 days for me also. Mine was complete in a little under 80 days. 30" #1 barrel, french grey receiver. front globe with spirit level, mid-range soule, single-set trigger and shotgun stock. Plinkin' load target results. Lead in the bed is my "seed lead".
Supe
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90760&d=1387252962http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87308&d=1384302910

[gandydancer]

Dang!! nothing wrong with that.. good shooting supe47.

[Lead Fred]

If you get a Sharps, Swiss holy black is all you will need or want.
BP cartridge shooting is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
If you want to shoot smokeless get a H&R Buff Classic.
I shoot the kitchen sink tough mine.

[Socal147]

Sup47 - beautiful rifle. I would be lucky to get that spread at 100 yards.
Lead Fred - I am not sure if I will shoot BP. I understand it is traditional but it seems to be more involved and a lot dirtier than smokeless. I need to read a lot more to educate myself on the subject. I may run a few BP rounds just to get a feel for it. Damn, I am just learning about casting. LOL

My rifle as spec ed out:
1885 High Wall Classic
Military stock (late decision: Semi Fancy Grade)
26 inch octagonal barrel (late decision: 28 inch round barrel)
Single set trigger
French Grey finish
Buckhorn sights
( I will be calling first thing to verify the changes)

Nothing too fancy. I want a rifle I can actually use and not worry about it.

[Socal147]

What do you guys recommend for a modern scope base. CSharps will do the final fitting to the receiver.