Any current cost estimates for reloading .303 British?

[rutilate]

A friend of mine has just finished rebuilding his 1943 Bren and is going broke buying ammo for it! I suggested that he could save quite a bit by reloading.

This isn't a caliber I'm familiar with. Do any of you who do reload have any reasonably current estimates of what it might cost to reload in today's dollars, either with cast or jacketed?

He has some brass, but would probably need more. He would probably buy bullets/boolits.

[Dutchman]

I have 250+ rds of MkVII from a Vickers cloth belt that I'm storing for nothing. Northern Calif stop by and it can be had inexpensively. Think I also have some FN50 for the Lewis gun. I got rid of all my .303 Brit rifles.

You should put your location in your info..

Dutch

[Teddy (punchie)]

$0.60 to $0.70 each after you have brass and reloading it. Count time and equipment if you don't have have it and price is allot higher.

[rutilate]

I have 250+ rds of MkVII from a Vickers cloth belt that I'm storing for nothing. Northern Calif stop by and it can be had inexpensively. Think I also have some FN50 for the Lewis gun. I got rid of all my .303 Brit rifles.
You should put your location in your info..
Dutch

Done, and thanks. Not sure he's ready to pull the trigger but might be in the near future.


$0.60 to $0.70 each after you have brass and reloading it. Count time and equipment if you don't have have it and price is allot higher.

Thanks for the estimate. Time isn't an issue as it is a hobby and far better than many other uses of spare time! And equipment...well that just needs to be amortized over so many thousands of rounds for all kinds of different guns so it approaches zero, right?!

[koehn,jim]

I think .60-.70 cents is way high, I load mine closer to 22 cents with a cast boolit. I figure .03 for the primer, .05 for the boolit I use a 314299 in mine and about 13 cents for the powder. If I have to buy a jacketed it might be 42 cents.

[Artful]

Let's see, Powder and primers same as any other medium sized rifle cartridge

you can look for pulled .311 bullets - broken down 7.62x54R usually best
but you could used pulled AK in it I suppose as the gas is adjustable on that weapon as I recall
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|281|1081|1162
H3140B BULK (.310) 7.62 CAL 123 GR Spire Point $537.00 / 2800 PREPAID THRU USPS

Brass will be the expensive part - most surplus 303 (what's left - not much) is Berdan primed.
http://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/12637/inline/1

100 = $ 49.99
500 = $237.45
1000 = $449.91
Thank goodness it just drops the brass where it's easy to find on a Bren.


Wonder how hard it would be to convert it to 7.62x54R???
A:-Rechambering a spare barrel, will give a "funny" chamber, as the shoulder on a 7,62x54R is further back than the .303 shoulder; So probably need a new barrel made

B:-The Bolt face will have to be opened out by an extra .015 all around ( .303 rim is .530, Ruski rim is .560).
So will need a spare bolt for the conversion

C:-The Extractor will have to be undercut and modified, to safely grip the larger rim and head of case, to avoid being "popped out" of its retaining T-Slot.

D:-The worst part is the Magazine, which will not feed 7,62's larger Rim and body correcly; the only possible replacement is a ZB-39 (Bulgarian Mag for 8x56R) which may be OK for the 7,62R Cartridge, but I don't know first hand but have heard it fits into the Bren .303 Mag-well.

http://www.gunco.net/forums/archive/index.php?t-67525.html

http://1919a4.com/showthread.php?12141-Bren-Barrel-Conversion-303-to-7-62x54R

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67054
Hmmm, may be able to use existing mags


i was playing around with my new bren mags and for a goof thought to try the russian round in it. well it just fits. both rounds are rimmed so the action should feed it. the bolt needs to be opened up a bit for the commie round to fit in (.022 of an inch). the round only fits half way into the bore so there should be enough meat in the barrel for a reamer. and i was told that the commie 30 cal. round has a similar diameter to the .303 british round. i layed out some rounds and they look like they arc at the same angle as a bren mag. i do not have any .303 to compare it to yet(it's on order) but it looks like it could be down.

He could consult an expert on Bren's
http://projectguns.com/bren.html

[rutilate]

you can look for pulled .311 bullets - broken down 7.62x54R usually best
but you could used pulled AK in it I suppose as the gas is adjustable on that weapon as I recall
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|281|1081|1162
H3140B BULK (.310) 7.62 CAL 123 GR Spire Point $537.00 / 2800 PREPAID THRU USPS



Thanks for this and the other references--extremely helpful!

W/o having to purchase brass, using IMR 4895, CCI large rifle primers, and these bullets, it looks like 33.7c/round. Far, far better than the $3+/round he was paying new!!

I searched briefly and didn't find any requirements for magnum large rifle primers. Do you concur that these should be loaded with standard large rifle?

Anyone have any sources for IMR 4895?

[Blammer]

standard large rifle primers should be just fine.

[Artful]

Standard Rifle primer's should be fine
powder - just keep checking back with usual suspects or get on a list and wait for it to show up
http://www.brunoshooters.com
http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/2,69.html
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2185242576/imr-4895-smokeless-powder
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|283|310
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
http://www.grafs.com/
http://www.natchezss.com/

[Hamish]

Funny, talking about converting from a caliber that has been common as dirt my whole life, to one I never even heard of till not that many years ago,,,,

[BruceB]

I once made the mistake of running three thirty-round magazines of CAST-bullet loads through my .303 Bren on full-auto...in very short succession..... ONCE.

The resulting effort to get the lead-plating out of the gas system occupied a good couple hours, as I now seem to recall.

On semi-auto, a bit of "trigger restraint" should avoid such a situation. The barrel is quite heavy. and heat shouldn't be too much bother.

Watch out for incipient head separations. A broken-case extractor was part of my tool-kit for the Bren, and it got used! Initial firing of new brass was fine, but problems developed as the brass was used repeatedly.

[Artful]

Funny, talking about converting from a caliber that has been common as dirt my whole life, to one I never even heard of till not that many years ago,,,,

for years any Russian/Chicom was almost unshootable until we started to get a flood of cheap imports into the country - but I well remember friends with guns converted to shoot 8x57mm instead of .30'06 cause it was way cheaper. Now that has dried up as well. With NFA stuff you shoot what's cheapest - I've got conversion kits for 22LR but can't get ammo in good supply.

BruceB - did you ever try any plated bullets in yours (Rainer and the like?)

[BruceB]

BruceB - did you ever try any plated bullets in yours (Rainer and the like?)

No.

We lived in a very remote area of the far North in Canada, and shipping charges were absolutely outrageous. This was one of the major reasons I began casting in the first place.

I don't think the plated bullets would have been much better. The plating is extremely thin, and the underlying lead alloy would have heated very quickly to the point of melting. The copper plating wouldn't give much protection once the lead began melting.

[Teddy (punchie)]

I think .60-.70 cents is way high, I load mine closer to 22 cents with a cast boolit. I figure .03 for the primer, .05 for the boolit I use a 314299 in mine and about 13 cents for the powder. If I have to buy a jacketed it might be 42 cents. Yes for cast your right on. Here powder is all around 25 -35 pound, bullets are 30-35 per hundred. I see why bullets are still hard to find.

[Multigunner]

I once made the mistake of running three thirty-round magazines of CAST-bullet loads through my .303 Bren on full-auto...in very short succession..... ONCE.

The resulting effort to get the lead-plating out of the gas system occupied a good couple hours, as I now seem to recall.

Do you have the gas system scraper in your tool kit ?
They used these to remove carbon build up so it should make short work of leading.
These are reverse hinged like a valve spring compressor , the more you squeeze the grips the harder it presses the blades into the sides of the cylinder.

The Chinese used a Bren converted to 8mm. That sounds like the best conversion outside of the 7.62 conversions.

Cast zinc alloy bullets should work, and without the leading problems.

[303Guy]

Cast zinc alloy bullets should work, and without the leading problems.Now there's an idea. How does the weight stack up for say a 180gr lead alloy sized boolit?

[Avery Arms]

A while back wideners was selling pulled 7.62X54 bullets for dirt cheap but the next best thing is pulling your own, you can use the bullets and powder and sell off the primed brass.

Make sure you get a good hornady collet puller not the mickey mouse plastic hammer type.

[Artful]

Now there's an idea. How does the weight stack up for say a 180gr lead alloy sized boolit?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?89931-zinc-boolits-range-report

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?181242-Zinc-bullets-why-harder-on-bore-than-copper

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?14176-cast-zinc-bullets

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?49484-zinc-bullets
this one states .358 158grn in lead comes out 90 to 100 grains in zinc
so 180 grain mold would produce 103-114 grains in zinc if my math is on.

[Multigunner]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?89931-zinc-boolits-range-report

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?181242-Zinc-bullets-why-harder-on-bore-than-copper

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?14176-cast-zinc-bullets

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?49484-zinc-bullets
this one states .358 158grn in lead comes out 90 to 100 grains in zinc
so 180 grain mold would produce 103-114 grains in zinc if my math is on.

They usually say that a zinc alloy bullet weighs in at 60% the weight of a pure lead bullet cast from the same mold.
A mold throwing a 200 gr lead bullet should throw a 120 gr zinc bullet.
There should be molds that throw 215-220 gr .303 bullets, which would up the weight slightly.

The light weight of the projectiles might affect the function of recoil operated MGs but should not affect the gas operated BREN.

Zinc alloy bullets were used in testing armor plate back before WW2, they apparently mimic the FMJ bullets so far as penetration goes.
Some owners of antique WW1 cannon use cast zinc projectiles, which they recover and recast.

The light bullets with full length to fill the throat without jump to origin of rifling and full contact with the rifling might produce accurate extra high velocity loads when the shorter lead core bullets would not be as efficient.

[303Guy]

The light bullets with full length to fill the throat without jump to origin of rifling and full contact with the rifling might produce accurate extra high velocity loads when the shorter lead core bullets would not be as efficient.This is what I'm thinking. Spitzer designs could be used too.

What level of accuracy is required for a machine gun?

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Multigunner;2526754]Do you have the gas system scraper in your tool kit ?QUOTE

Unfortunately, no, I didn't have that tool.

QUOTE The Chinese used a Bren converted to 8mm.QUOTE

The John Inglis company in Canada built MANY 8mm Brens for China. These were not conversions, but actual 8mm guns right from the factory. I've also seen Brens converted in Vietnam to 7.62x39, using the 30-round AK-47 magazines.

When Britain began converting Brens to 7.62 NATO in the L4 series, they used a lot of Inglis 8mm Bren parts, since the head diameters of the 8mm (7.92) and 7.62 NATO are the same. Ergo, breechblocks, extractors and likely a few other 8mm parts worked for 7.62 NATO as well.

Canada adopted the BESA co-axial tank machine gun in 7.92x57. For the limited anticipated use in armor, it was decided NOT to try modifying the gun to .303. This is why one occasionally sees Canadian-made 7.92 Mauser military ammo.....this is VERY hot-loaded ammunition!

[leadman]

With zinc you have to make sure the bullet diameter is acceptable for the barrel when cast as it does not size well with lead boolit equipment. Zinc is said to have a self lubricating quality so no lube is needed.
I wonder what a Hi-Tek coated projectile would do in a machine gun? I don't have amg but do have a 30 round mag for my m-1 carbine.

[Multigunner]

Canada adopted the BESA co-axial tank machine gun in 7.92x57. For the limited anticipated use in armor, it was decided NOT to try modifying the gun to .303. This is why one occasionally sees Canadian-made 7.92 Mauser military ammo.....this is VERY hot-loaded ammunition!

I bought several large cartons of Canadian 7.92 ammo when I had a Persian Mauser carbine. It was pretty good stuff.
They also shipped this ammo to China at some point.
When the U S cut off the supply of .30-06 ammo to China the Chinese converted many M1917 rifles to 7.92.