Interesting SWC observation

[PWS]

Did some shooting this morning with my .357 and noticed something interesting on the target.

Both loads were with 9grains Blue Dot and NOE358429 180gr SWC for ~1175fps from a 4" barrel. Slugs that measured 8 Bhn left ragged holes with lead smears on the perimeter (holes marked with a dash) while the 21 Bhn slugs cut very clean holes (circled).

Both shoot about 8moa and foul approximately the same, only a trace of leading. They were shot at 33yds not yet tried at longer range. It'll be interesting to see if one hardness outperforms the other??


90537

[waco]

It could very well be how taunt the paper target was to the backer. If it was not even across the board, it will cut hole a little differently.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

When the material being cut is at even the smallest angle then the (circular) cutter will cut an oval. The steeper the angle=the more the cut will be elliptical. It is important that the target be "plumb flat" on the/its backing. "Keyholes" result from the bullet coming in at an angle, but the oval or ellipse looks the same. LLS

[300savage]

your paper it too hard, you need a harder bullet to cut it..

[btroj]

Sure those are lead smears? Bet they could be lube smears.

[Forrest r]

That's actually what you should be seeing on a target. Take 1 of your 8bhn bullets & 1 of the 22bhn bullets and a piece of paper. It's coloring time, lightly push on the 8bhn bullet & draw on the paper. Then do the same thing with the harder 22bhn bullet. You will clearly see a line (looks like a pencil line) from the soft 8bhn bullet & will barely see a shadow of a line from the hard lead 22bhn bullet.

When a bullet goes thru a paper target it will make a smaller hole than the diameter of that bullet. The bullet will put lead rings around the holes (like in your picture) if the leads soft enough. They made little gagets called scoring plugs to help shooters keep score on their paper targets. The scoring plugs have a ring the same diameter as the bullet being shot. Simply put it in the bullet hole & that ring will show the true bullet hole in the taget. They are used when hitting a line is in question, if a bullet touches the ring it's scored as a hit in that ring. Hence what looked like an 8 could become a 9 or what looked like a 10 is really an x.

Scoring plugs from left to right:17cal, 22cal, 30cal, 32cal (beat up/needs replaced), 38spl/35cal, 45acp. The 44 plug is missing, must be in my range bag.

90587

[44man]

8 bhn might be slumping to another boolit shape, no shoulder left to cut a clean hole.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Thanks 300savage, I just spewed coffee all over my laptop.

[btroj]

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p733/Btroj/68628C95-0013-47C6-8E9F-BA1315402488_zpsh0j2xj8i.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Btroj/media/68628C95-0013-47C6-8E9F-BA1315402488_zpsh0j2xj8i.jpg.html)

I can assure you this isn't lead smear. Look at the lube booger next to the hole. This is at 100 yards. Lube purging with an overly viscous lube.

[GP100man]

No doubt lube can splatter a target , but it won`t make a difference in the cutting edge of the SWCs front band .

The difference is the harder booilt survives the forcing cone better than the softer, thus cutting a cleaner hole.

If possible recover the slugs & compare the "edge" of the front driving bands.

GP

[btroj]

That shoulder can push lube in front of it, that lube ends up somewhere.

Somewhere in the "quest thread" is a photo of a target shot with bullets all from the same run. The first shot has that dark ring, following shots don't. First shot pushed the grunge left from previous days shooting out ahead of it and that showed on the target.

[Forrest r]

Soft lead will leave a ring on the targets, shot/scored 1000's of them

A 45acp target, was testing loads.

90633

22's are right up there with swaged bullets.

90634

90635

I've wiped the lube (excessive snot) off of 22's before & shot them and the targets had the same dark ring in them.

[detox]

Wow...that is verygood marksmanship. Can you show us a picture of your swaged lead 22 bullets?

[PWS]

FWIW, everything was the same between loads - same target, same brass, same range, same backer, same primer, same powder, same pistol, same ambient conditions, same load, same..., same... except bullet hardness.

I'm thinking Forrest r is onto something with soft lead smearing and also the guys who think the harder bullet is maintaining a sharper front band. The holes with the harder slug are noticeably larger - it's cutting a full diameter hole. The softer slugs are only cutting a meplat sized hole. The biggest surprise is that they produce the same size groups confirmed again today at 50 yards with three groups each at about 8moa. Not the greatest shooter but I would have thought that that much difference in hardness would show up on paper. Not sure what conclusions to draw?

[Forrest r]

Those targets were shot with soft lead 22lr bullets/ammo (1050fps). I don't swage bullets for the 22cals but I due swage hbwc's for the 32cal & 41mag along with casting hbwc's for the 38spl & 44spl.

One of the bucket list projects this year/winter is to swage a 200gr hbwc for the 45acp.

For practice I use the el-cheapo wc pellets for a 10m pistol on a 10m range in my basement. The pellets are made from soft lead & have a lite oil on them for a lube. the oil is junk so I clean the pellets off (500 @ a time) by swishing them around in a container with rubbing alcohol in it & then let the air dry. I'll either shoot them plain or put a dry lube on them. They will leave the same black ring on a target without any lube on them. The pellets are only going 500fps.

[fecmech]

8 bhn might be slumping to another boolit shape, no shoulder left to cut a clean hole.
Exactly!