Whatabout those 303 barreled Martini's

[brstevns]

How good or bad are those 303 british barreled martini's that started live as 577/450's

[zuke]

Wish I could find one at a good price.

[dbosman]

Awful. If you find any at a decent price be sure to let us know.

[seaboltm]

I have always wanted one of these for some reason. As far as good price, this is not too bad but it would need serious work:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=379794000

[Nobade]

Be careful of buying one, a good percentage of the ones for sale are fakes. Familiarize yourself with what the correct markings and proofs look like before you ever dream of buying one. Most are easy to spot, but some are pretty good.

-Nobade

[curator]

I have both a MkII and a MkIII .303 Martini and they are fine shooters. I have always had a soft spot for single shot rifles and these both live up to my requirements. One is "Metford" rifles and the other is "Enfield" rifled. The MkII started out as a 577-.450MH and was converted to .303Brit. in 1892 but the MkIII was a purpose built "trade rifle" made originally in .303 around 1896 with Enfield rifling and "cordite proofed." I shoot both with cast boolits and they almost as accurate as any of my later made Lee Enfield rifles. Their original sights leave a lot to be desired as par as precision shooting goes.

[Goatwhiskers]

What Nobade said. Lately there are a large number of Martinis on the market that we call "Khyber Pass" copies. The Afghans are masters at hand making copies of various firearms in little cottage workshops and they are mighty hard to tell from originals. They even try to copy the proof marks. They're made of whatever metal is at hand and mostly the factory parts, screws and such won't even fit. They will sling a bullet, how many times is the question. Mind you, people are asking prices equal to originals. Beware!! GW

[hickstick_10]

How good or bad are those 303 british barreled martini's that started live as 577/450's

The metfords are made for the black powder 303 cartridge, the enfields will take whatever off the shelf ammo you can buy.

You're challenge will be finding one that doesnt have a sewer pipe bore.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I just purchased an 1896 rifle by HRB & Co which was a 577/450, then converted in the same year to 303 by Royal Enfield factory. One of the best barrels I've ever seen. Came complete with front sight cover

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_0080_e_zpsde5eede3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_0080_e_zpsde5eede3.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_0082_e_zpsda5323fe.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_0082_e_zpsda5323fe.jpg.html)

Shoots exceptionally well with a 195gn cast boolit as this 100yd x 10 shot group indicates

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/LECastBullet150913_A_zps0f00adc0.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/LECastBullet150913_A_zps0f00adc0.jpg.html)

[brstevns]

90936
Is this the type of a Martini in 303 british my cousin should be looking for?

[hickstick_10]

Those stamps look nothing like my LSA.co martini enfield.

The right side of the enfields tend to have the original stamping back when they were a .450, the conversion stamping are on the left.

http://www.allaboutenfields.co.nz/wp-content/gallery/kevs-martini/martini-enfield-reciever-lh.jpg

For the enfields you'l also see a stamping on the barrel thats identical to what you would see on a SMLE the "BNP 16.5 tons per............."

[brstevns]

Maybe the difference is because the pic of the one he seen is a B.S.A. Model?

[hickstick_10]

No, even if it was a BSA 303, the old martial markings would be on the right hand side and the conversion date on the left. Notice the difference in quality of the stamping? Also the "VOR" wierds me out (should be V.R) and since Victoria died in 01 in 1902 there should be an ER signifying king Edward.

There are fake ones out there.

Edited to add: Theres also no "enfield" stamp and the crown over the queens name is a kings crown. More signs of a questionable fake, likely made in a place where theres alot of sand.

Site to look at: http://www.martinihenry.com/markings.htm

[brstevns]

Gave him all the information but think he is going to get it anyway. He did say the stock is terrible but the action was really tight and looked like it was machined very well. Told him if he does get it to buy a box of factory rounds and strap it down. If no problem after firing off the box it is probably safe, hope I told him right?

[Dale in Louisiana]

Mine has a trigger that almost takes a hydraulic jack to pull.

I had such great hopes...

dale in Louisiana

[brstevns]

I would think he would be safe using black powder loads or the ever so popular know 10-12 gr Unique load with cast bullets?

[hickstick_10]

He'd probably be fine. Why not just buy a cadet if he wants to shoot mild ammo? He'l have a smaller action to deal with as well.

Are you asking questions or making statements with a question mark at the end? Its hard to tell.

[junkbug]

This is what can happen if you buy a shop built Martini clone.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201278-303-Martini-Enfield-with-Strange-Rifling-Problem&highlight=kyber

[stephenj]

my memory is a bit hazy but i do seem to remember a fellow over on either the gunboards forum or the british militaria forum testing a seemingly well made khyber pass copy of a .303 martini to destruction, i also seem to remember that it only took about 20 rounds of factory ammo to destroy it.

mayhaps someone with a bit better memory can remember where the thread is located . i do think the tested rifle was one of the fakes sog was trying to pass off as built on british equipment under british supervision or some such lie

but the point is that these rifles that are fakes should realy not be fired .. no matter how well the machining looks these rifles where put together with what ever metal the builder happened to have handy .

we only get two eyes and ten fingers to last us as long as we live ... does your friend like his ?

[brstevns]

He'd probably be fine. Why not just buy a cadet if he wants to shoot mild ammo? He'l have a smaller action to deal with as well.

Are you asking questions or making statements with a question mark at the end? Its hard to tell. More of a statement but in hopes someone may have a reply.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

It certainly looks non-genuine British BSA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/ME_rhs.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/ME_rhs.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/ME_lhs.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/ME_lhs.jpg.html)

[brstevns]

Well I talk my cousin out of getting this one> Now a new question for him. If he cannot find a Martini in 303 what model is best in the 577/450 .

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Either a late model Mk3 or a long lever Mk4. The Mk1 & 2 mostly have oversized chambers to take the foil brass cases and back then they didn't have to worry about reloading. I have a Mk1 (1872) that suffers this problem but an 1876 Mk2 that appears to have a later Mk3 replacement barrel is perfect. The 1883 & 1885 Mk3's that I have are fine shooters with 0.462" cast boolits!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/577_450_50m.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/577_450_50m.jpg.html)

[brstevns]

Thanks for the information will past it along.

[dromia]

I shoot a civilian "trade" Martini in 303, it is the centre rifle in the photos.

Interestingly it has a right hand cast to the butt stock.

It shoots jacketed very well and my winter holiday project is to get it shooting cast, I shall start with boolits from an NOE 316299 mould and Nobel Pistol Powder 1.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Martinis%2028%20November%202013/Shakennotstirred002.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/adamsutherland/Martinis%2028%20November%202013/Shakennotstirred004.jpg

[brstevns]

Nice!

[dromia]

Thank you.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Dromia,

That is a very interesting and neat aperature sight fitted. Is there a maker's name stamped on it?

I have a long range range pattern sight fitted to one of mine graduated to 1000yds

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Meues_upright.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Meues_upright.jpg.html)

[Col4570]

Do not be tempted to rebarrel a 577/450 Martini Henry to 303.The modification requires a more robust breach Block.

[castaroo]

I use a 180gr lee starting with 10 gr Nobel no1 (sub) too 15 gr , getting 1750fps

[loadedbutbroke]

From the UK

I have only just seen this post which features one of my favorite rifles (the other being the SMLE No1***) so I am probably very biased.

I have shot my example in competition, and won, and found it to be as accurate as the No4's and SMLE's at shorter ranges, but here is another thing- if you practice and lay your ammunition out well, so it comes easily to hand, you can achieve remarkably quick reloading for snaps and rapids. -Now you probably wont believe this but I can keep up with most people firing bolt action rifles!!! The ejection on these rifles is excellent and it is so easy to slip another round in and shut the breach.

On the downside the sights are poor and there is of course no windage so you have to aim off. In fact my rifle shoots slightly to the left any way.

94544

Apologies for the slightly blurred picture. This was taken in 2011 at the Historical Breechloaders Small Arms Association annual lecture at Bisley. The theme was the second Boer War and in theory all the rifles shown could have been there. Mine is the second from the top. Any body got any idea what the repeater is at the bottom on the table?

My rifle is dated 1877 on one side and 1899 on the other. It is Nitro proofed. I can post pictures of the markings if that is of interest to fellow enthusiasts. ME,s are still sometimes available in the UK with decent bores although I believe replacement barrels are not available (as is the case for No 4's ).

Adrian

[BruceHMX]

I would think he would be safe using black powder loads or the ever so popular know 10-12 gr Unique load with cast bullets?


I have a really nice one. I use 10gr Unique with a 120gr 32-20 cast flatnose bullet. Sized at 313dia. It is a tack driver and full to shoot all day long.

[Von Gruff]

Mine has a trigger that almost takes a hydraulic jack to pull.

I had such great hopes...

dale in Louisiana

Mine had a trigger weight that was much too heavy as well. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?226756-A-Martini-Enfield-303-again

I removed the trigger spring and made a washer from .014 brass and cut the bottom two thirds off. The top third was put under the front edge of the trigger spring which takes some of the weight off the pull. Check for good engagement and return pressure but my trigger went from about 12lb down to about 3 and has made a great deal of difference to my shooting.

[dromia]

Mine had a trigger weight that was much too heavy as well. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?226756-A-Martini-Enfield-303-again

I removed the trigger spring and made a washer from .014 brass and cut the bottom two thirds off. The top third was put under the front edge of the trigger spring which takes some of the weight off the pull. Check for good engagement and return pressure but my trigger went from about 12lb down to about 3 and has made a great deal of difference to my shooting.

Any photographs of this modification perchance?

[eljefeoz]

Very interesting peep on your rifle there, Dromia.
would appreciate more info.
Cheers

[dromia]

The full original post is here.

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=15066

The rear sight aperture on the Bonehill conversion is a Parker Hale which seems to have been machined to fit the milled groove in the receiver.

[Von Gruff]

Any photographs of this modification perchance?

Here you go. I preferred not to thin the spring as advised to another on the Militaria forums and this just angels the spring while leaving it intact.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/303%20Martini%20Enfield/Triggermodification_zps6614c3ca.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/303%20Martini%20Enfield/Triggermodification_zps6614c3ca.jpg.html)

[dromia]

Thank you, an elegant improvement.

[eljefeoz]

The full original post is here.

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=15066

The rear sight aperture on the Bonehill conversion is a Parker Hale which seems to have been machined to fit the milled groove in the receiver.

very Nice
Thanks.