cast bullets for 7.5x55

[Battis]

I have a Schmidt Rubin 96/11. I've been shooting GP11 and PRVI ammo. Recently I bought Lee neck sizing dies to reload the fired PRVI ammo. A seller on GB sent me some samples of .308 flat nosed cast bullets (150 grs, lubed or unlubed, gas checked or not) and I'm trying to figure out if they're right for the gun.
I slugged the bore and got .298-.306. The bullets measure .309.
The bullets seat perfectly in the fired PRVI case (neck sized) and also into the unsized GP11 case.
But the dummy rounds chamber pretty tightly - the bolt closes but needs some force. Ejecting is hard - the bullet stays behind and is imprinted slightly with the rifling.
Basically, is this bullet too big for this rifle?
I've researched a lot but nothing applies to this particular rifle that I can find.
By the way, the GB seller is great to work with and his prices are low.

[Kraschenbirn]

Try seating your boolit a little deeper. In a straight-pull, like the SR, the boolit needs to be seated so that it doesn't quite engage (or just barely touches) the lands when the bolt is closed and locked.

Bill

[Battis]

In that rifle, is there a limit as to how far you can seat a flat nosed bullet ?

[WineMan]

The throats on the 1911 and 96/11 rifles are usually much more generous (normal) than the later K31's. You can generally use a larger diameter and seat them out farther. The K31 chamber is a bit wider so brass fired in a K31 and neck sized will not chamber in a 11 or 96/11. I would seat them out and try to have just a bit of resistance when the bolt S# is at 12:00 and the op rod is flush with the bolt plug.

Dave

[Battis]

I seated the bullet further into the case. At a cartridge OAL of 2.65", the case mouth grips the bullet, and it chambers fine with slight resistance on the bolt (and it ejects without coming apart).
The OAL of the pointy PRVI round is 2.95".
Despite the difference in overall length between the two cartridges, should the .309 cast, flat nose bullet work (safely)?
I've only reloaded for the .41 Swiss Vetterli (black powder) and different OAL lengths in those cartridges make no difference.

[Kraschenbirn]

Sounds like you're on the right track and I wouldn't worry about shooting a .309 boolit in your .296/.306 barrel. Groove dia. of my SRs is .307+ for the 96/11 and .308 for the K-31 and I shoot the same 200 gr. boolits sized .310 in both with no problems and good accuracy.

Bill

[Battis]

I'm still working out a test round or two for the 7.5x55. I have some .309 cast bullets that chamber properly if seated deep in the case (neck sized, once fired brass). I also have some .308 FMJ bullets that seat perfectly with finger pressure, and also chamber well. Chambered dummy rounds of each do not separate when ejected.
The .309 bullets will not pull out of the case with finger pressure, but the .308 will if I work at it. So...should I crimp the .308s if I want to use the 5 round box magazine? (as I do in the Vetterli .41).

I searched around and came to the conclusion that I gotta adjust the neck sizing, not use a crimp.

[Battis]

I loaded up a few test rounds for the Schmidt Rubin 96/11:
150 gr lubed cast bullets, flat nose - .309
165 gr FMJ spiral point .308
Approx. 34 grs H4895

The FMJ bullets were as accurate at 100 yds at the PRVI ammo with about half the kick.
The cast bullets were all over the place at 100 yds.
Is that just the way of flat nosed cast bullets? Would a different charge work better (more or less powder)?

[Kraschenbirn]

If it were me, I'd back my CB 'starting load' down to around 29-30 grains of H4895. My 'best' (accuracy) load for the SR 96/11 is 29.5 gr IMR4895 (with a dacron fill) under the a Lee 309-200-1R sized to .310.

Bill

[Ray1946]

I have been away from cast bullets for some time, but have notes. Back in the early 80's I used a 96/11 to shoot 100yd. high-power. I must say, the one you have has the tightest bore/groove I have ever heard of on a 96/11. I have had 4 96/11s and the tightest of any of them was .298/.3085. The powders I used for all of my cast bullet shooting was 4759, RL7 and 4198.

The most accurate bullet was the Lee 309180 over 19.0 grs. of 4759. At 50 yds. from the bench, I fired a group that measured .292! Using the same load shooting prone with a sling produced a group that measured .743. Overall length with a given bullet is critical to accuracy with cast bullets. To find your overall length with the bullet you intend to use, push one of your cast bullets into the lead with a pencil very gently until it stops. With a cleaning rod that has a collar attached, push the rod down the barrel until it stops and make a mark. Next remove the bullet and push the rod all the way down against the bolt face( be sure the striker is cocked and there is no firing pin protrusion) and make another mark. This is your maximum overall length. I would subtract .005 from this number and go with it. For 4759 powder, I would start at 17.0 grs. and go up in .2 gr. increments until everything comes together. I wouldn't go over 20 grs. tops. If you decide on RL7; 23.0 to 26.0grs.

The 96/11 and 1911 platforms are probably the best for lead bullet shooting because of the rear lugs and the chamber directly in front of the magazine. These rifles will feed about any nose shape there is.....................Ray

[Battis]

I went to the range yesterday with 20 rounds, using Hornaday 150 gr FMJ bullets (.308) and H4895 - 30 grs, 34 grs and 38 grs. They all gonged the gong at 100 yds (good sized gong) - I gotta try paper targets to compare for accuracy.
I will try the measuring method for cast bullets. Thanks.

[Ray1946]

Good luck! Shooting cast out of the old rifles is a real hoot! There are a few simple rules you need to remember. The best accuracy I have ever gotten was with bullets sized .001-.0015 over groove diameter. I use a hollow base .38 wad-cutter chucked in my electric drill and reduced with a file to .320-.325. I then center it up by hand and drive it into the muzzle about 1 inch, push the bullet back out from the breech and measure it with a MICROMETER. This is your groove diameter......................

[Battis]

I used a .31 pure lead roundball and drove it in from the muzzle, all the way to the breech. I did measure it with a micrometer. Does driving it all the way down change the measurement?

[Ray1946]

Driving it all the way thru the barrel accomplishes nothing, the last 1 1/2 to 2 inches are all you are interested in................

[fa38]

Driving it all the way thru the barrel accomplishes nothing

Well it might tell you that you have a choked bore which I think is a good thing, and if you find a great big loose spot that would tell me it might not shoot very well.

[Bob S]

I too have a 96/11 with a 298/306 bore/groove. Shoots one big jagged hole at 100 yards:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/Swiss/Swiss_9611_MSA_Forum_MatchR.jpg

Ideal 311291U, 16 grains of 2400. Ten rounds fired prone using USGI web sling at 100 yards in 2004, back when I could still see. I needed 600 meters on the rear sight and a flat tire hold to get this centered at 100 yards.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Battis]

I too have a 96/11 with a 298/306 bore/groove
So I'm not cracking up...
I bought H4895 and IMR 4064 powders. I've only tried the H4895.
Do you have to size the bullets?

[Ray1946]

FANTASTIC! Truly great shooting! I've come close to this a few times, but not like you have. May I ask; were you using the original sights or did you have a peep sight on the back?

I started shooting my first 96/11 back in 1981. This was my first experience shooting cast bullets in competition. Planning on getting back to it this year...............

[45 2.1]

I had excellent luck with the RCBS 308-165-Sil boolit with Unique behind it.

[Bob S]

Ray: Original service sights. Even when I could see, I couldn't get groups like that on demand. I could almost always keep ten in the ten-ring of the MR31 target, though. (1-3/4" ... the 600 yard MR-1 target reduced for 100 yard firing. Not the target in the pic.)

Battis: It's an undersized mould ("U"), and falls out of the mould at 309, so it didn't need much sizing. Pushed through a Lee .308 die with Ideal gas checks; then lubed in Ideal 45 machine with .309 sizer die; alox/beeswax .... not sure whose brand, coulda been Javelina, or Lyman.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[wallenba]

Trouble is the very short freebore in the K31 leade. I am waiting for this mold from Accurate molds http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-185S-D.png to solve or help with the problem. Note the nose diameter of .297 .

[Green Lizzard]

i load the 200 gr lee seated to the crimp groove and it works great, the rifling just lightly scuffs the nose on chambering. been using 19 grs wc820 leaving a slight flare on case and no neck tension single load for mbabr match

[Ray1946]

Bob S; That is some great shooting, sights all the way up to 600! I'm hoping to get back to rifle shooting this year. I know for sure my eyes are not the same, but there are a few more gizmos out there now than there were in the early 80's, so I'm hoping to try one of these to expand the depth of focus of my 67 year old eyes.........................