SBH stringing shots diagonally

[bmortell]

shot 2 cylinders into a 30 yard group today and when i checked target found that 5 were clustered in 2 inches at point of aim and the rest were strung up and to the right in a line to as far as about 7 inches off. i couldnt of called any fliers and all rounds were 240 swc over 22 4227 from the same handloading session with good attention to detial since there my deer load this season. gun is 6.5 inch super blackhawk open sights couldnt find anything loose on gun is there any other explanation
thanks in advance

[300savage]

honestly? i would say its your grip is not as consistent as it could be.
that is something that will affect your poi even though you did nothing else wrong in breaking the shot. reason being the barrel is going to recoil up and to the right and it all starts to happen after the shot is triggered.
just a thought..

[contender1]

What he said!
There is a chart that shows "why" we get certain types of groups. Too much finger on the trigger, too little finger on the trigger, grip pressure (soft & hard,) etc. I don't have one handy, but I'd say it's in how you grip the gun AND handle the recoil.
I was shooting a 45 Colt El Dorado the other day. This gun is a very accurate gun. I changed one thing in my gripping to see what would happen, and immediately, my groups shifted.
Get another person who knows how to shoot a Single Action & see what their groups do.

[Airman Basic]

The Wheel of Misfortune
90472
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

[cbrick]

Little doubt, grip is critical when shooting a plow handle for groups. Grip is important shooting any handgun but with a revolver and in particular a plow handle it is considerably more so. Grip is something takes a good deal of concentration and practice.

Once you get grip mastered even the 2" group will shrink and with a good load and revolver the fliers will disappear.

Grip. It's everything.

Rick

[44man]

No, it is the 4227's, believe me. Good powder but NOT in the .44.
For some reason it gets heat sensitive in the .44 and just a warm barrel will start to string shots because velocity will keep increasing and primers get flatter with each shot.
Change to 296.

[cbrick]

No, it is the 4227's, believe me. Good powder but NOT in the .44.
For some reason it gets heat sensitive in the .44 and just a warm barrel will start to string shots because velocity will keep increasing and primers get flatter with each shot. Change to 296.

Hhmmm . . .Could well be, I've never tried 4227 in the 44.

Try the 296 but trust me, grip is still huge when shooting groups with a hog leg.

Rick

[Larry Gibson]

bmortell

As mentioned; more than likely it isn't the SBH that is stringing the shots. It's probably you.

However, test again and this time track the shots by noting on paper where each shot hits. If the string is random it is probably you. If it groups well with the first cylinder and then starts stringing with the second we should look else where, perhaps at the lube. I've shot thousands of 44 magnum loads with the 428421 over 23 gr 4227 and it is a very good and accurate load.

Larry Gibson

[DRNurse1]

Good information and the chart is helpful for the one hand right handed shooter. Flip the chart horizontally if you are a one hand lefty shooter. Attention to the basic fundamentals is key here. I might look at my fundamentals before trying to work up another load on a different powder, but 44man's suggestion has merit.

If you were using 2 hands (likely), you may have increased the grip a bit with your off hand. Also, for the two hand folks, Weaver vs Isosceles has different causes for these 'plow handle' groups.

The caveat here is that I am a conventional pistol (one hand-right hand) competitor not a revolver hunter and am just learning to shoot that darned 'hogleg' for the Distinguished Revolver match. I use CAR for defensive applications and teach Modified Weaver and Isosceles for defense to beginning shooters.

+1 on Mr Gibson's reply, also. That rings of expert advice.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Historically the gun funnies used your example of vertical stringing as poor ignition solved by a hotter primer. Yours is the classical example of an accurate gun developing vertical stringing with slow powder and the solution is switching to a load that burns more consistently. I'd like to duplicate your load to test but I used up all my 4227 and never bought another pound because of just what you post. 4227 lists high velocities in the manuals but doesn't deliver on target. Blue Dot has been the most pleasant surprise in my SBH. Mine is a 7 1/2" 3 screw, a classy gun I think but I'd bet yours is probably a better shooter. I also use 2400, but most of my SBH shooting is Unique with "middle of the road" pressure loads.

[44man]

2400 is good, heck, Unique, Blue Dot, 231, depending on boolit weight and what you want to do, all work.
4227 will never go near my .44's again. I actually looked down the side of my SBH once to see if the barrel was bent!
I did shoot a few super groups with the stuff by keeping the gun cold and shooting reeeeal slow between shots.
Now 4227 was top dog in the .357 Max. Never seen a heat problem in that caliber.

[PWS]

Can't say any more than what has already been said but check your velocity spreads with 4227. Tight cases, strong crimps, hot primers and tight throats can result in small vel spreads with 4227 and if that is indeed the case, the strings are probably in your grip.

[contender1]

I have to disagree with the points of how IMR 4227 is "bad" in a 44 mag. I had a Redhawk that was SCARILY accurate with a medium load of 4227 & a 240 grn J-word boolit. (I still have targets shot at 50 yds, with the scope from a bench that are sub MOA. I have one ragged hole that measures in the .980 range for 6 shots, at the largest outside to outside measurement.
But, none of my other 44's have been quite that accurate. But IMR 4227 has been fair to me. But I experiment & use combos that give the best accuracy.

[bmortell]

update went out this morning before hunting and shot 4 shot group same circumstances as last time just to make sure the cold bore shots werent off thinking 4227 in hot barrel was the problem, but they were all right on ill have to run 12 through chrony one after another
if i find interesting info ill put it up

also note its in the mid 20s during all this

[waco]

Yeah.....Different powders, primers, crimp, blah, blah, blah, .....I'm with Rick on this one.

A VERY consistent grip is key to consistent accuracy in any pistol/revolver.

[44man]

I have to disagree with the points of how IMR 4227 is "bad" in a 44 mag. I had a Redhawk that was SCARILY accurate with a medium load of 4227 & a 240 grn J-word boolit. (I still have targets shot at 50 yds, with the scope from a bench that are sub MOA. I have one ragged hole that measures in the .980 range for 6 shots, at the largest outside to outside measurement.
But, none of my other 44's have been quite that accurate. But IMR 4227 has been fair to me. But I experiment & use combos that give the best accuracy.
Believe me, I had several 2" groups at 200 meters with 4227.
Take the stuff to an IHMSA shoot once.
Shooting in real cold weather will hide most of it too.
Then I see your Contender1 name, are you using a revolver?

[44man]

There is something that always bothers me with posts, nothing against you fellas of course, just a normal progression it seems.
Discussing one gun or caliber will always have other types of guns and then other calibers creep in to the discussion. Humor is always appreciated though.
The only gun I have found the trouble with is the .44 mag revolver, any of them from the SBH, SRH and S&W.

[06ackley]

I have used lots of 4227 in the 44 and I have never had a heat problem with it.Both my rugers shoot it and are both accurate guns.I do notice when I change my grip a huge diiference in group size.I would only try one thing at a time.Try changing your grip first and if that doesn't work and you have the same problem try a different powder like 44man suggested.When I want full tilt loads in mine I use H110 which I believe may be the same as 296.