Which would you pick

[brstevns]

Asking for a cousin that is thinking of getting either a Rem rolling Block 43 spanish or martini 577/450. Which is the best ?

[Bullshop Junior]

I like the rolling blocks. I dont have any experiance with the martini rifles.

[pietro]

.

It depends upon which is best for what................

The Martini action is somewhat stronger than a roller, in equal condition.

I've had both - but still have a Martini (BSA .22) because I prefer the single motion of dropping the lever to the multiple steps of operating a roller. (YMMV)


.

[Bent Ramrod]

If overall cost to get it shooting is a factor, the .43 Spanish is much less expense for dies and shells. There are even production moulds for the caliber now, where they used to be obsolete and hard to find.

Shells, shell holders and dies for the .577-450 are very expensive, and require a loading press with a removable bushing so the larger dies can be used. Only the moulds and sizers are easy to get, catalogued items.

[brstevns]

Can either use smokeless powder equivalent black powder loads?

[Outpost75]

Yes, either can use blackpowder or equivalent smokeless loads. A factor to consider with the Martini is that it has no significant camming leverage in either chambering or extraction. The rollers are more forgiving in this respect, but less strong.

[hickstick_10]

The martini has a hefty bell crank extracter, beats the heck out of stomping your boot on the spur of the rolling block. I dont know if you ever tried to stick a recalcitrant shell into a roller, but if it doesn't want to go its not going to happen.

I have both rifles, I prefer the martini in all aspects except cleaning.

[Dan Cash]

Yes, either can use blackpowder or equivalent smokeless loads. A factor to consider with the Martini is that it has no significant camming leverage in either chambering or extraction. The rollers are more forgiving in this respect, but less strong.

Martini has some camming action on closing. A roller does not. If the cartridge binds on chambering with a rollere you are stuck. Personally, I would buy the Martini and have it rebarreled or sleved to .45-70.

[brstevns]

I see Mc.ace makes a 45/70 adapter to use in the Martini. wonder how well these work?

[pietro]

I prefer the martini in all aspects except cleaning.




Martini cleaning is vastly improved & faster if the rear action wall is center-drilled for a cleaning rod.



.

[enfield]

you might be thinking of the 22's. I don't think drilling the back of a 577/450 action would help much since the guts don't slide out in one piece.

[hickstick_10]

Martini cleaning is vastly improved & faster if the rear action wall is center-drilled for a cleaning rod.



.

Come again? This is a new one to me, and Im having a hard time picturing this.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

My preference would be toward a nice original Martini Henry, brass can be formed from 24ga Magtec shotshells for less than $1 each.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/MH577Formed_zps1c73f265.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/MH577Formed_zps1c73f265.jpg.html)

[bigted]

having never had the opportunity on the martini ... i would lean heavily toward the 43 Spanish. i do have the 43 in a roller and can say from experience that it was maybe the easiest rifle i have ever had to get shooting good.

there are many advantages to the 43 in that it is a very very close cousin to the 44-77 Remington/Sharps. the 44 and 43 are separated by only a few thousandths in boolit size ... in all other respects they are identical and both the 43 and the 44 have a very good track record for accuracy and knockdown power. they both come from the buff era and thusly knowing that the largest number of both Sharps and Remington rollers were ...{until the advent of the 45-70 coming into popularity and within reach}... chambered in the 44-77 and copious numbers in military 43 Spanish chambers. these are an American icon ... both in the America's north and south ... the 43 Spanish is a spiffy rifle and easy to cheaply get into one in great shape ...{until word gets out what they are capable of}... and having a great shiny bore.

i would encourage the purchase of both and compare for yourself ... or his self ... but i would certainly begin with the 43 Spanish in the fun and enjoyable Remington Rolling Block. while this Roller is not the strongest action in existence ... they do very well with blackpowder [designed for] and not bad with small doses of smokless such as 5744. not a strong action but very fun and entertaining when understood what the strength limits are and going forward in that arena.

[brstevns]

My preference would be toward a nice original Martini Henry, brass can be formed from 24ga Magtec shotshells for less than $1 each.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/MH577Formed_zps1c73f265.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/MH577Formed_zps1c73f265.jpg.html)

How well do these hold up? Guess they use shotshell primers?

[John Allen]

I would take the rolling block.

[kopperl]

I have a 43 and couple of Cadets. I prefer the cadet because of the recoil-and only that.

Bill

[stephenj]

My reformed magteck cases have survived many firings with no issues .
When loading a person does need to keep in mind they are a semi balloon head design though.
They take a large pistol primer not a 209 .
There is also a fellow on the british militaria forum selling already formed cases for not much more then you can buy the unformed case for .
As to dies and such ... if you buy already formed brass and are creative you may never need dies
I neck size mine with a leather mallet and a block of wood that has an apropiate size hole drilled in it

[MtGun44]

The .577 will loosen your teeth with the recoil after a while. Interesting guns but
really unpleasant to shoot, and BP need full case of powder. Some use various
cardboard tubes, etc to take up space. . . . PITA, IMO.

Rem RB is great gun, .43 Sp brass is not easy to find, but is out there.

Bill

[curator]

I have a couple of both and you are comparing apples and oranges. Both have good and problem points. For an experienced handloader, both can be made to shoot. .43 Spanish brass is actually more difficult (expensive) to find but only because of a resurgence in Martini shooting due to the Nepal cashe coming in to Atlanta Cutlery and others. 24 gauge brass shot shells can be formed (once you learn how--I ruined the first 40 of 50 cases, and I have a lot of cartridge forming experience) but it has become difficult to find too. I suggest you check in with the guys at Britishmilitaria forum: http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/

There is good information on getting Martini Henrys ups and shooting. One of their group makes re-formed 577-450 cases very reasonably priced when he can get the 24 gauge brass.

[EDG]

I like the M-H rifles but finding a good one in the US is difficult.
However I really dislike the 577-450 cartridge. The brass is a PIA to find and the cartridges is too large for my style of shooting.

I have seen many nice 43 Spanish Remington rifles. While the .43 SR case can be hard to come by it does lend itself to reasonable loading and shooting.

[The Goose]

I own 3 Martini Henry's and an original rolling block military rifle in 50/70. I love the Martini, however, there is a pretty steep (and expensive) learning curve to get them shooting. It is true that 24 gauge shotgun brass cases are fairly reasonable and Lee dies can be had for about $85 - $90. However., there is a ton to learn about putting together a good 577/450 round. The brass is very labor intensive to form (I have made hundreds) and you will mess up quite a few before you get it down. Then there are fillers and lube cookies and wads or cards to consider. I have a Rockchucker press so the large dies are not a problem, but most single stage presses will not accommodate the larger dies. I had to get a special trimmer. My MK II requires a .468 boolit while my MK IV and I. Hollis require a .470. Even slugging the bore is tricky in terms of measuring the Henry style rifling. Getting the Martini to really shoot well has been a monumental project compared to many other old military black powder rifles that I have cast and reloaded for. Do not get me wrong, I love every minute of it. Not everyone is as warped as me.