Lee Special Order 6.5 Swede 170 gr.

[marlin39a]

Saw this on Midsouth's site after I did order the 22 Bator. Not in stock at this time. I have my account set to notify me when it does come in. Anybody use this mold for 6.5x55? I'd like to try it in my M38 when available.

[Baja_Traveler]

I got one several years ago - poor quality mold, and the nose was so oversized that it would not chamber in my Swede. I gave it away here some time back...

[Char-Gar]

This is the famous or infamous "Cruse missile" that was developed on this board back in the day. A search will turn up plenty of threads about it's use.

The originals were single cavities and held to very close tolerances by Oldfeller who headed the group buy from Lee. They were outstanding molds and I bought two. After Midsouth began to order them for sale, quality has been spotty to say the least.

We did a number of group buys from Lee in the early days and the honchos really held Lee's feet to the quality fire. They had to remake several runs. Tired of doing that, they added some boiler plate to their agreements saying the honcho agreed to their loosey goosey specs. It was soon thereafter that we began to look elsewhere for better quality control.

[NVScouter]

I'm pretty sure Accurate and NOE make the real deal and you can have it faster. My 22Bator took 10.5 months to come it from Midsouth a few years ago.

[ukrifleman]

90405
I have 2, one cut down to 150gn for use with my 6.5x52 M91 Carcano.
I have no issues with quality, they both cast at .2695.
ukrifleman.

[Larry Gibson]

The one I used was one of the over sized ones also. First bullets I cast I WQ'd them and couldn't size the nose down w/o destroying the bullet. Cast some more out of 80/20 lino/lead and AC'd them. BHN runs 18 - 20. The noses ran .266 and the driving bands .272- .273. I sized the driving bands at .268 an sized the noses in 2 steps with a .266 and then a .264 just to get the nose to seat up into the throat. GC to the bottom driving band still down below 6.5 Swede case neck when seated. I've been running a test with RL 22 powder from 1400 fps up through 2500 fps. Have one more 200 yard range session and will give report on results.

Larry Gibson

[btroj]

Has any other single bullet led to more arguing and fighting?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I bought a Lee/Midsouth cruise missile mold 2+ years ago...way over sized.
I got rid of it.

It'll be interesting to see exactly what Lee does with the cruise missile with their new style blocks and their new CNC machining.
The Bator was plagued with an oversized nose (.225) on older Lee/midsouth molds, but it has been reported that the new ones are .220 and that is what the specs print says.

What if Lee's cuts the cruise missile correctly ?
that'd be a good day.
Jon

[Oldfeller]

Never, nope -- not a one. No other bullet can make such a pretty musical note when water dropped full hard and then dumped on a Formica table top either.

Nor has any other mold caused more long barreled Karlina rifles to be bought, and then finally given away or sold due to complete fast twist frustration.

Nor has any other mold cause more subsequent 6.5 molds to be designed and then made up to try to correct all the issues the Cruise Missile highlighted ....

HOWEVER, if shot slowly between 1,450 fps and 1,600 fps true fps sweet spots with real accuracy have actually been found by the common man shooting his own personal Karlina and then the infamously long cruise missile will cruise on through trees, car bodies, washing machines, multiple deer, etc.

The Cruise can penetrate a LOT of stuff really well when fired down at its very slow accurate fps levels.


==============


Sounds like LEE has become a "totally impossible to deal with" vendor finally. They aren't even trying to hold tolerances on the 8mm Max for example, even their great big -0 +.003" swag bag tolerances. Midsouth certainly isn't watching the baby at all for specs or conformance.

I have the original prototype 6.5 Swede mold cut by Doug at Lee and the first production mold that was cut from the run. Oddly, both hit specs fairly well --- amazing, ain't it?

[swheeler]

Never, nope -- not a one. No other bullet can make such a pretty musical note when water dropped full hard and then dumped on a Formica table top either.

Nor has any other mold caused more long barreled Karlina rifles to be bought, and then finally given away or sold due to complete fast twist frustration.
Nor has any other mold cause more subsequent 6.5 molds to be designed and then made up to try to correct all the issues the Cruise Missile highlighted ....

HOWEVER, if shot slowly between 1,450 fps and 1,600 fps true fps sweet spots with real accuracy have actually been found by the common man shooting his own personal Karlina and then the infamously long cruise missile will cruise on through trees, car bodies, washing machines, multiple deer, etc.

The Cruise can penetrate a LOT of stuff really well when fired down at its very slow accurate fps levels.


==============


Sounds like LEE has become a "totally impossible to deal with" vendor finally. They aren't even trying to hold tolerances on the 8mm Max for example, even their great big -0 +.003" swag bag tolerances. Midsouth certainly isn't watching the baby at all for specs or conformance.

I have the original prototype 6.5 Swede mold cut by Doug at Lee and the first production mold that was cut from the run. Oddly, both hit specs fairly well --- amazing, ain't it?

Sounds like you've been around the block a time or three, who are you;)

[45 2.1]

Sounds like you've been around the block a time or three, who are you;)

Hahahaha......... that's ripe. Oldfeller honcho'd the first Cruise Missile GB.

Kelly, to bad you have been gone so long...... Do a search for the "milk jug" thread...... Miss Karlina all grown up.

[swheeler]

Kelly I thought that would get a response from Bobby:) Good to see you post now and then!

[Char-Gar]

Kelly, I am very glad to see you back.

[marlin39a]

Well, doesn't look promising for me on the Cruise Missile. Especially in my 2 M38's. I guess the hunt is on for the 266455 or 266469. Thanks for your replies guys.

[Dutchman]

Both the Cruise Missile and 8mm Max from Midsouth are useless (oversize). If you can get an order in with Gardner's Cache he has an original single cavity Lee mold: http://gardnerscache.com/6_5mm_170_fp_g_c.html
I bought 500 and am still working on them since my double cavity is worthless.

I never did get the Cruise Missile to stop yawing. Speeding things up didn't do it.

13.8 grs 2400 with the original Cruise Missile sized .267" (Gardner's sizing).

http://images41.fotki.com/v1580/photos/2/28344/157842/65x551701382400ab-vi.jpg

266469 140 gr Loverin sized .266" (Wayne Doudna Custom Cast Bullets) 10.5 grs Unique chronographed @ 1,500 fps. Interesting that these two groups fired from same rifle within minutes and printed about identical groups but diametrically opposite at 10 and 4 o'clock @ 50 yards.

http://images41.fotki.com/v1580/photos/2/28344/157842/65x55140105Unique1b-vi.jpg

266673 150 gr drops from mold @ .266". 13.8 grs 2400. Same rifle. Five rds into less than 1/2" why waste time with other molds? I think this bullet will be the best but needs to be shot only from newish barrels and not worn barrels. I wish the mold dropped @ .268" so I at least had some variable size options but it's a newer Lyman mold and it drops .266". The bullet was seated so far out it never did touch the rifling.

http://images12.fotki.com/v254/photos/2/28344/157842/020x2-vi.jpg

266469 on right seated to touch. 266673 barely seated in case and shot sub-MOA.

http://images12.fotki.com/v236/photos/4/28344/9430776/photo1-vi.jpg

Carl Gustaf m/38 mfg in 1915 with Tasco 6-18x44. At 50 yds you can only use about 10x on the scope but safe to say there's no shooter error @ 50 yds with this rifle. Proven MOA shooter with j-types and 266673. I don't believe I've ever slugged the bore on this.

http://images56.fotki.com/v1602/photos/4/28344/9895637/DSCF1959p-vi.jpg


This group fired at 50 yds from a m/96 with diopter sights. These target sighted rifles can sometimes outshoot a scoped rifle. This rifle has significant bore wear. The breech of the barrel is about washed out. Group is 1" with 266469 .266" @ 1,500 fps.

http://images112.fotki.com/v1067/photos/2/28344/1676633/011yy-vi.jpg

http://images49.fotki.com/v570/photos/2/28344/1676633/DSCF3289x-vi.jpg

Two 5 shot strings fired at 50 yds. First string had two shots that didn't even hit the target at 50 yds. These with the Lee Cruise Missile from the current Midsouth 2 cavity mold. (junk!). One of the shots keyholed severely.

Then I tried an experiment. I dipped the nose of the bullet in liquid alox and it brought them back on target.

http://images112.fotki.com/v1067/photos/2/28344/1676633/021-vi.jpg

1905 Carl Gustaf m/96 with a newish bright sharp barrel. Even with the 7x long eye relief scope you can't do as good as the Tasco 6-18x44 scoped m/38. This m/96 is proven sub-MOA with j-types. The stock doesn't have the normal brass disc. It has a piece of paper with plastic goo over it with a name on it: Eskil Anderson. If you're lucky these privately used rifles from FSR (Frivilliga Skytterorelsen) shooting clubs are the best shooters you can find. http://dutchman.rebooty.com/fsr.html This rifle is now my regular range rifle.

http://images14.fotki.com/v218/photos/2/28344/6806565/DSCF1784k-vi.jpg

1900 Oberndorf Swede m/96 I built from parts using the barreled action that cost $18 from Century Arms. I finally retired it as my regular range rifle because it just wasn't producing the accuracy I wanted.

http://images41.fotki.com/v195/photos/2/28344/6806565/DSCF1354yy-vi.jpg

I have yet to see any results using the NOE 6.5 molds. Pictures & load data??

Dutch

[Oldfeller]

I know the purpose of the site is cast boollits and all, but if you hit the wall with any particular caliber and cast to the point you feel like you are beating your head totally against a brick wall, then simply go buy some simple cup and core bullets from Speer or Sierra or Hornady that are relatively long and heavy for that caliber and go see what the gun can do with those in that loosy goosey military throat.

Partial neck sizing (size marks end half way down) on fired brass helps with the "keep the bullet centered" issues with military chambers enough to make most mil surp chambers completely usable again with commercially jacketed slugs.

It is quite educational to see what the jacket itself adds to the party for strength and concentricity and cutting way way down on the down flight spiral (dispersion) effects on your problem child caliber. Plus speed is no longer an issue, just primer flattening, etc.

My daughter has my Karlina now with a bunch of jacketed rounds that it shoots very well. It fits her well, and is relatively a light rifle.

My 8mm Yugo 48s all still shoot cast, big old honkin' cast boolits plenty well enough.

I am packing up a 48a for my brother's Christmas present and I am giving him cast as well. Knowing him, he will never shoot the gun anyway. But he says he wants one to pass on to his son as both he and I are of an age to think about stuff like that.

NONE of my relatives are "rocket scientists" about guns and if it will hit stuff at point of aim inside 150 yards they are plumb tickled pink about it.

Me, I don't care to be aggravated about it any more. I only think of the site occasionally when I have a question about something reloadingish as I find Google thinks you guys are the source for most typed in questions about mil-surp powders (as are most other gun sites).

Hey, that's because you are.

Shoot safe and have fun. Joe, you be nice and stay out of trouble, you hear? Them boys can only take so much teasing before they get all upset about it.


Oldfeller

[geargnasher]

Joe's doing just fine, in fact I spoke with him at length last night.

On the CM, I got a mould similar to Larry's that was super-fat. I can assure everyone that velocity will not stabilize that boolit, I even took it up into the high 26s with my .270, wrapped in paper and it STILL flew sideways. I'm convinced that the over-sized, overweight nose on that particular run pushed the already borderline-stable boolit over the edge and put the CG in front of the CP. When I shortened it by one full band it worked much better in that and when sizing the nose down it worked fine in my Swedes to 2200 fps, give or take, getting me an inch or less consistently at 100 yards. Never got it to drill bugholes, though, Joe got the number on that but he had the correct mould.

Gear

[dromia]

I'm pretty sure Accurate and NOE make the real deal and you can have it faster. My 22Bator took 10.5 months to come it from Midsouth a few years ago.


Accurate will not cut moulds less than 30 cal diameter.

[nanuk]

Joe's doing just fine, in fact I spoke with him at length last night.

On the CM, ...I'm convinced that the over-sized, overweight nose on that particular run pushed the already borderline-stable boolit over the edge and put the CG in front of the CP. When I shortened it by one full band it worked much better in that ...
Gear


Gear, not that I doubt your experience here, as I remember your thread on shortening the CM

BUT, you need to explain to me how taking a full band off the back is going to reduce that over-sized, overweight nose.

seems to me, that would only make the nose MORE heavy in comparison and move the CG even more forward.