Need a little info on Winchester ammo

[Kent Fowler]

I inherited my late son in law's M1 Garand and along with it came 70 rounds of Winchester ammo in en blocs. I can tell the ammo is factory but not having the box they came in, I pulled one of the bullets and found it is a 168gr. FMJ BTHP and had 46.2 grains of some unknown ball powder. Looking on the internet, I am unable to find a reference of any Winchester factory loading using the 168gr. FMJBT bullet or if it was a tailored load for the Garand. I was wondering if anyone has come across this ammo. If I don't find a reference, I'll wait until it warms up a little and then pull the bullets and replace the powder with a suitable loading for the Garand.

[CastingFool]

I don't think I would pull the bullets. If it's 30-06 ammo, it should work fine. JMO

[garandsrus]

With only 70 rounds, I would probably pull the bullets and reload, as you indicated. It's not worth the risk of bending the op rod.

[Maven]

With only 70 rounds, I would probably pull the bullets and reload, as you indicated. It's not worth the risk of bending the op rod.

Exactly!

[mold maker]

Why would factory ammo bend the op rod? SAMMI specs should be safe in any common rifle. Isn't that the point of the standards?

[felix]

Who said it was factory (or, factory authorized via contract) ammo? 46 grains of powder under a 168 grainer in an 06 case would NOT be a factory load by any stretch of anyone's imagination in the know about ammo being produced on a supervised production line. Powders are selected as "customized" to that day's production line, and they invariably will fill the case a whole lot more than what you have shown. 46 grains of any ball powder that I know of would be a factory joke. PS. That load in a 308 case would be appropriate using a production variant of 748. But then, the bullet seating arrangement would fail using 06 cases and that would stop the line. ... felix

[Gtek]

"If it's 30-06 ammo, it should work fine." NO-NO-NO, Unknown loads, handloads? IF YOU DID NOT LOAD IT OR ANY DOUBT, IT IS COMPONENTS. That will keep you out of a lot of trouble. The Garand was designed to operate in a given window of pressure. Stepping out of that changes velocity of operating rod, changing dwell timing, these are bad things. All you need is powder and a little time and go ping with confidence. Gtek

[TNsailorman]

As stated by several -- play it safe and pull the bullets, dump the powder in the grass(make good fertilizer and you stated you didn't know what powder it is), and start the reloading process all over again using a reputable reloading manual. Eyesight, M-1 Garand operating rods are hard to replace these days and very expensive when you find one. Try to find a new operating rod today and you will see why everyone is warning you about using the loads as found. My advice and only that. james

[fouronesix]

+3 or 4... Pull the ammo down. Run the brass through a FL sizer, trim to length, use CCI #34 primers if you want or if there's any question about the wear in the Garand, load 46 gr of 4895, load with a 150 gr spire point of choice to recommended OAL, go shoot.

It's not the max pressure that gets the Garand. That is one very, very strong action. It's the shape of the pressure curve that gets the operating rod.

[Blammer]

I'd shoot it.

if your worried, take out the gas plug and shoot them single shot.

[Outpost75]

With only 46 grains of a Ball powder in an '06 case, there is Waaaay too much airspace for acceptable ballistic uniformity as loading density is probably below 80%. I would pull it, pour the Ball powder on your garden and start over.

With a 150-grain flatbased bullet similar to the Hornady Spire Point 49 grains of 4895 or Varget is a good approximation of Ball M2 velocity. With the 175 Sierra MK 46 grs. of IMR4064 or RL15 is a good approximation for M72 Match ballistics in GI cases with CCI M34 or WLR primers.

[lefty o]

Why would factory ammo bend the op rod? SAMMI specs should be safe in any common rifle. Isn't that the point of the standards?

because the M1 isnt "any common rifle" the vast majority of factory 30-06 ammunition should not be fired in an M1 garand rifle. besides the op rod damage everyone else has mentioned, which is at lest fixable, it is very hard on the heel of the reciever, and has been know to crack them which is not fixable.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Back when I first started shooting High Power, I was using an accurized M1 Garand done by a gentleman named "Hook" Boutin. He was a retired US Army Master Armorer who worked for the Army Marksmanship unit back when they used the M1 for High Power competition. He built many an accurized M1. When he finished with mine, it would shoot minute of angle at 100 yards with 175 grain Match surplus ammo he had. He "cracked" the bullet seal using a specialized competition single stage press (I don't know what it was, it used Wilson dies that did not fit into a standard single stage press.)

He gave me a load he said would do well for me practicing at 100 yard reduced targets and out to 300 yards and advised loading 175 grains with a couple grains less powder for 600 yards.

Here's the load:

168 grain bthp
45 grains IMR 4895 (He was very insistent on using this brand of powder only and to weigh each charge.)

I'll not give you the trim to length or seated length of the bullet, because those were selected based on measurements of my chamber with an RCBS tool. The cases were "shoulder bumped" back 2 thousandths from firing length and the brass was trimmed accordingly. Bullet was seated to minimize jump to the lands.

For the 168 grain bthp's you have there, a load of about 44-45 grains of IMR 4895 should provide an accurate load that will operate your M1 in a comfortable range while giving you good accuracy, especially if you set up the brass to match your chamber. I suspect the ball powder in those cases may be BLC2, but I agree with the rest of the men to dump it and put in a known quantity powder/primer.

For me, these loads and following his advice allowed me to move from being an "average" high power shooter to the upper end of the pack of new high power shooters in a single spring. By fall, the local high power team was paying me a lot of attention during the reduced range shoots and urging me to start shooting the full range matches. I remember one of my last matches shooting the M1, I shot a kneeling group of 8X and 2 10's on a reduced range target (Should have rebuilt my position better after reloading the 2 round clip.). After that, on the advice of the high power team member calling my shots, I spent the money on a shooting coat, a AR15 and starting shooting the full range matches. I shot better and easier with the AR15, but I'll never forget my days with that M1. It's where I learned to appreciate a good set of iron sights and an accurized rifle.