Heavy 357 Max load help please!

[tweigenant]

Hey guys, did a search and didn't quite find what I was looking for. Plan to load a 245 grain gc cast in the Max for use in a T/C 14' barrel. Perhaps 357Maximum has some insight on this as I have read many of his posts on this cartridge.

Thanks everyone!

Tomd

[paul h]

The heaviest bullet I used in my 357 max was a 200 gr wfn and it worked best with AA 1680. I'd think AA 1680 or perhaps RL 7 would be good powders to use. RL7 was too slow for top performance with the 200 gr.

[357maximum]

My insight whether you like what I have to say or not..........THE 357MAXIMUM WAS MADE TO SHOOT 170-190 GRAIN BOOLITS......keep them in that range and all is good, none of my uuber heavy experiments impressed me much. You lose too much powder capacity when you get over 225 grainers and hit the point of diminishing returns in performance. I never found anything over 200 grainers that impressed me....my 357MAX was meant to be a deer killin tool from the ground up and the heavies just did not get me where I wanted to go. YMMV though.

That being said........Your stock TC chamber might allow some up fudging/longgg seating in boolit weight...it really depends on what TC threw in for a chamber/throat the day your barrel was made. Stock TC 357MAX chambers are kind of like a USPS flatrate box in that regard....if it fits,it ships :lol: ....use what you have to to fill the throat and go from there. Experimentation on your end is how you will get to where you wanna go and with enough experimenting you might just find you have a shooter, but you gotta fill that throat .....diameter wise first, lengthewise second.

[Whiterabbit]

Hey guys, did a search and didn't quite find what I was looking for. Plan to load a 245 grain gc cast in the Max for use in a T/C 14' barrel. Perhaps 357Maximum has some insight on this as I have read many of his posts on this cartridge.

Thanks everyone!

Tomd

My load for a 250 grain bullet is 18-19 grains of H110, somewhere in that range. For a handi rifle. That's off the top of my head though, so I'd probably download from there and work it back up. But I'm pretty sure 19 was the over-max, so to speak.

group size was about 2x what it was for gunshow 357 mag and lead-free 38+p stuff. But that's OK, group size is also about half of what 20ga slugs are in the same gun.

[Wayne S]

See if you can find a copy of Hand Loader Nov. Dec. 1986, or a copy of an article by Jim Wilkins.
He shows data using a Ruger, a Dan Wesson, a 10 & 14 " T/C. As to your question, he used a Lyman 358318 listed at 255 gn. He lists 20.0 to 20.5 WW 296, and 25.0 RL-7. Both listed at 1600 fps. As stated above T/C chambers are like a box of cracker jacks, you never know what you're going to find, espically when it comes to throat Dia. and length. I suggest, after sluging your chamber for it's throat Dia. you drop one of your bullets into the chamber, then drop a belled case in behind it and see if you can close the action, then tap / extract the round and that is a seating depth to try IF you can live with that OAL for your purpose.

[rockrat]

I use WW680 for my heavy loads in my 357max. Heaviest boolit is 268gr and shoots very well, but is alot slower than even 225gr boolits. As 357maximum says, it is past a point of diminishing returns. I would probably go up to 235gr, but I am using a rifle, not a contender

[tweigenant]

Thanks to everyone for your replies and advise! I am aware (painfully) of T/C and their sewer pipe throats on the Max barrels and a cerrosafe cast of this one proved to show how careless they were with these chambers. A Bellm reamer cut 357 Mag barrel is the way to go. Just need to see what I can get this stock barrel to do accuracywise, somewhat of a personal challenge! 357Maximum, is your overall most accurate and versetile powder the VV-N120?

[357maximum]

Thanks to everyone for your replies and advise! I am aware (painfully) of T/C and their sewer pipe throats on the Max barrels and a cerrosafe cast of this one proved to show how careless they were with these chambers. A Bellm reamer cut 357 Mag barrel is the way to go. Just need to see what I can get this stock barrel to do accuracywise, somewhat of a personal challenge! 357Maximum, is your overall most accurate and versetile powder the VV-N120?


Well Yes and No...before a friend put me onto Alliant MP300 I would have said YES with authority. MP300 comes so close to duplicating N-120 (in the max) that I will use either/or now.....this is all with 180-190 grain RNFPGC or WFNGC boolits. I must confess that when venison is on the line I always choose the N-120 loads off the ammo shelf however.....so I guess you could call MP-300 the best 2nd place powder I have found.


IMHO the best way to get a "correct" 357Max chamber is to have Match Grade Machine make ya one correctly in the first place. They are gonna make me another one in 20 inch as soon as I can $swing it. You could always have someone (properly) drop a 357Herrett reamer in that barrel to erase TC's rectal cranial inversion and then start fresh with an MGM max.....after you get done beating your head against the wall that is. :mrgreen:

[WALLNUTT]

10" TC factory barrel 245gr Saeco 22gr RL7 or 19gr IMR 4227 oal 2.4".

[Hamish]

*WHAT FOLLOWS IS T/C CONTENDER/ENCORE DATA ONLY!!*

tweigenant, pay close attention to what Max say's about the Maximum,,,,,,,but I can tell you that a 235gr boolit gets into the mid 1400's with 14gr of 2400, or 15gr of W296. The 296 had a stiffer recoil pulse than the 2400. This was in .357magnum using .357Maximum load data. There is load data out there, I also tested Green Dot (5gr. is a very nice practice load), and 700X is also a candidate.

That said, Reloader 7 was mentioned several times as being very accurate in my searches.

I strongly suspect that 2015 would be a candidate in the Max case, most likely with a magnum primer.

I dropped back to 13.8 of 2400, in the area of 1425fps. Beyond 150 yards is pretty iffy.

Honestly, once this load lays one out, I'm going to the Larsen 180 WFN, there is just way too much proven history with it.

[tweigenant]

Well Yes and No...before a friend put me onto Alliant MP300 I would have said YES with authority. MP300 comes so close to duplicating N-120 (in the max) that I will use either/or now.....this is all with 180-190 grain RNFPGC or WFNGC boolits. I must confess that when venison is on the line I always choose the N-120 loads off the ammo shelf however.....so I guess you could call MP-300 the best 2nd place powder I have found.


IMHO the best way to get a "correct" 357Max chamber is to have Match Grade Machine make ya one correctly in the first place. They are gonna make me another one in 20 inch as soon as I can $swing it. You could always have someone (properly) drop a 357Herrett reamer in that barrel to erase TC's rectal cranial inversion and then start fresh with an MGM max.....after you get done beating your head against the wall that is. :mrgreen:


Mr. Max, thanks for that reference to the Alliant MP300. I have shot a lot of H-110 and Accurate #9 in the Max years back shooting IHMSA with my Dan Wesson's using the RCBS 200gr 35 cal boolit and that worked very well for me. I am not familiar with the MP300, is that a currently available powder?

Tom

[tweigenant]

Hey Wallnutt I appreciate the info. I did try the H-4227 in brass cut down to fit the cylinder of the Dan Wesson using the 245 and 17gr of powder. It shot fairly well and took down the rams with authority, but I never pursued it for further development. Using full length brass in the Contender with the 245 is new territory for me. I will give that a whirl if it ever warms up around here!

Tom

[tweigenant]

*WHAT FOLLOWS IS T/C CONTENDER/ENCORE DATA ONLY!!*

tweigenant, pay close attention to what Max say's about the Maximum,,,,,,,but I can tell you that a 235gr boolit gets into the mid 1400's with 14gr of 2400, or 15gr of W296. The 296 had a stiffer recoil pulse than the 2400. This was in .357magnum using .357Maximum load data. There is load data out there, I also tested Green Dot (5gr. is a very nice practice load), and 700X is also a candidate.

That said, Reloader 7 was mentioned several times as being very accurate in my searches.

I strongly suspect that 2015 would be a candidate in the Max case, most likely with a magnum primer.

I dropped back to 13.8 of 2400, in the area of 1425fps. Beyond 150 yards is pretty iffy.

Honestly, once this load lays one out, I'm going to the Larsen 180 WFN, there is just way too much proven history with it.


Hamish, that is good information also. Seems to me I did test the 2015 load from the published Accurate load data but I lost my notes I had during my last move so I don't have my test data any longer. Would be worth a try also. I also am interested in testing the 2400. Do you perhaps recall any details on accuracy with those loads?

[MT Gianni]

Has anyone shot the 358627 with good results in theirs? I have read the Glen Frixell write up.

[Hamish]

Your mileage may very well vary, but, that said,,,,

13.4 and 13.8 of 2400 gave me good circular inch and a half groups at 100y. At some point I plan on doing further testing with the 13.4.

With 13.8, zero at 75 and 125y, a couple inches high at 100y and approx four inches low at 150y. Got to that point and called it good for now.

I wish I had this boolit and load back when I was shooting silhouettes, I don't believe it would have left a ram standing, no matter how hard set.

14.2 gave three quarter inch by three inch horizontal strings. (I have forgotten what this signifies, anyone?)

[357maximum]

Mr. Max, thanks for that reference to the Alliant MP300. I have shot a lot of H-110 and Accurate #9 in the Max years back shooting IHMSA with my Dan Wesson's using the RCBS 200gr 35 cal boolit and that worked very well for me. I am not familiar with the MP300, is that a currently available powder?

Tom


Tom

You are welcome and yes MP300 is currently available from Alliant.

MT. Gianni......As for the 358627, my throating would not allow me to use it without severely restricitng case capacity/velocity...it did shoot good though and even at 1400 it hit steel hard.

[MT Gianni]

I shot some to sight in my 10" contender bbl. My handi likes these with 19 gr H110 which is a stout load. I bought a TC 2.5 Recoil proof scope & mount off of gunbroker and sighted it in with this load. It is a knuckle skinner but I put 3 in 1" @ 25 yards for a sight in load. I will wait til the 35 mph wind dies down to check it further.

[WALLNUTT]

tweigenant I too used to use shortened Max brass or mag brass to shoot in my Ruger SRMs shorter cyl for IHMSA long ago. In it I used RCBS 200 rifle bullet and did OK even with the jump to throats. I also used the TC in production with the 200 and the saeco posting some good scores. The 250 is very accurate in my TC being very enjoyable to shoot at long ranges.

[part_timer]

Has anyone shot the 358627 with good results in theirs? I have read the Glen Frixell write up.

I have had good luck with 19.5 of H110 with the 358627 sized .358 in a TC 20" custom shop tube. It will print 3 shot groups into a quarter at 50 yards. We have taken 4 deer with it in the last couple of years and it has performed well.

It did not perform well in a 7" reamed 357 mag barrel that we have. It will only shoot 180's and the must be sized at .360

[TCTex]

I have a MGM 15.75in Contender in 357 Max and love it. My pet load is 28gr 1680 with a 180 gr Saeco 354 sized to .359 with a CCI small rifle primer. I get 1950+ with it and its recoil is mild compared to the H110 and LiLGun loads. My rig is boringly accerate and the critters hate it. LOL.

Duane

[uscra112]

Agree with 357Maximum that the optimum boolit (or j-wart) weight is 180 grains, at least in a pistol length barrel.

Lil-Gun is my choice for powder.

[nanuk]

I am thinking the RD 190 grainer was made for the Max....

at least in MY dreams

[MT Gianni]

My factory throat could chamber the 3589 with no problems.

[TCTex]

I am thinking the RD 190 grainer was made for the Max....

at least in MY dreams

LOL. I understand.


The 190 RD was developed with the 35 Rem in mind, I think.


I could chamber dummy rounds with the 190, but JUST bearly. If was a tight fit with the 190. YMMV. My barrel is also a MGM. However, I did tell Kerry that I was going to shoot cast in it. If you sent him a dummy round I am sure he would cut it for the 200gr RCBS if you wanted...


For what its worth. My 15in barrel could shoot the 190's at 2000 fps with H100 or LILGun. The 180gr XTP pet load for my barrel was getting 2100 FPS with LiLGun.

Duane

[nanuk]

I've got Handi rifles, and both have long forcing cone throats, with one deeper than the other.

from what I've read, they take a boolit seated way out there !

[cwlongshot]

Sorry to bring back a oldie!!

Im looking for 300 MP data in the max & Legend. Ill extrapolate the Legend pretty easily. ;). Id love to PM 357 Maximum but see he has been banned... Anyone have a contact?

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NOE 360-232
Accurate 36-270c
LEE 190 RD
(Shown in my palm all together)
LEE mold block no marks WFNGC (Green Bullet)

ALL these have proven good shooters and performers in my Maxis. Matter of fact a friend shot his bear this year with that 270g in a Maxi two shots thru and thru plain base powder coated with quarter sized exits.

Dont underestimate what heavies can do!

[Dinny]

I'm the friend who shot a bear with the Accurate 36-270 shown above. Loading it with a slightly compressed load of AA1680 and lighting it with a SRP I am getting 1755fps from my 22" rifle barrel. I have little doubt it will work out to 150yds if I do my job and place the bullet in the correct spot.

Thanks, Dinny

[Meatpuppet]

Hmmm... I mostly load heavyweight 357 Maximum for suppressed use. Since I am looking for 1000fps and minimal muzzle pressure, case volume is not an issue for me. The soft lead projectile really smushes out at subsonic velocity.

MGM 16" Barrel (1-14 twist).

Projectile: 300gr Powdercoated & Swaged soft lead projectile
Brass: Starline
Primer: CCI Small Rifle
Powder: VV N350 - 8.0gr
OAL: 2.30
Velocity: 1050 nominal

Projectile: 290gr Swaged Jacketed Soft Point
Brass: Starline
Primer: CCI Small Rifle
Powder: VV N32C Tin Star - 7.5gr
OAL: 2.30
Velocity: 950 (ish) but super quiet.....

253604253605

[Dinny]

Meatpuppet,
Are you swaging those bullets yourself? Also, are you sizing the bullets nose to fit in your chamber? I have a barrel that was reamed with a PT&G reamer that gives just a hair more clearance in the throat and it seems to shoot very well that way. Heavy WFN and RN bullets don't fit well but most others do.

Thanks, Dinny

[Meatpuppet]

Dinny,

Yes. I am swaging in a BT Sniper Point Form Die with a 6S profile. I can also do a hollowpoint profile, but my OAL is limited to a 2.1 maximum which still has a bit of a "press fit" to chamber in the MGM barrel. I have a newer MGM Barrel that was cut to accept the HP profile at 2.3 OAL, but I have not had a chance to experiment with it yet. I do think at subsonic speeds the HP profile is the better option.

For the green monster, I cast from an Accurate Molds 34-310Z, powdercoat and then swage in the point form die.

For the Jacketed Soft Point 285gr, I cast from an Accurate Mold 32-270B and drop it in a drawn down RCE 40 cal jacket (sadly, not available any more) and then swage up in the point form die.

Again, these are not really high performance rounds, just entertaining as heck. For high performance in 357 Max & 358 SOCOM I generally use swaged, jacketed projectiles in the 150 - 210 grain weight.

[Dinny]

I loaded some more of those Accurate 36-270s today. They were cast much softer than the first ones. Of the three bullets I shot into a 17" deep box filled with wet packed papers, one got away and I caught two. The two I caught were in the last few inches of the box. I still have doubts that this bullet will expand inside an animal with a MV of 1755fps. I may need to go softer.

Thanks, Dinny

253824253825

[cwlongshot]

Ill cast some dead soft next...

CW

[Dinny]

Here are the softer ones CW cast for me. I also found that a MP 220 LHP (Red PC) expanded nicely with this softer alloy. This bullet weighs an avg of 215gr with this alloy.

270gr LFP has a 1755fps MV. I used the same powder and charge weight for the 215gr LHP so I'm estimating it has a MV of 50-100fps more. I plan to chrono that load next weekend.

Thanks, Dinny
255443
255444
255445
255446
255447

[bluejay75]

Dinny,

Is the 200 grain the MP Clone? Great casting and testing!

JB

[Dinny]

Dinny,

Is the 200 grain the MP Clone? Great casting and testing!

JB

JB,
I believe it is. I just looked at pics CW sent. The mold says MP 220 FN so I may have mistyped the weight. It does weigh 215gr with this alloy.

I'll be in your AO on 12 Feb. Want me to bring you a handful to try?

Thanks, Dinny

[cwlongshot]

Dinny,

Is the 200 grain the MP Clone? Great casting and testing!

JB

255476255477

[bluejay75]

Dinny,

I honchod that run. I was pandering for load data. I’m heading to Paris on the 12th. Don’t need boolits but I hate I missed you.

JB

[Dinny]

I'll arrive the afternoon of the 11th. Try 24.0gr of AA1680 in a 357 Max case with a SR primer.

Thanks, Dinny

[cwlongshot]

It’s a nice casting Mold for sure. Cast about a hundred with it yesterday.

CW