Anyone heard from john @h-g firearms?

[blltsmth]

A couple months ago I bought a full set of .223 dies from John at H-G Firearms. All was going well until I tried to screw the core-seat die into my old Corbin Silver press. THREADS WERE TOO SMALL!! Isent them back to John over a month ago. Despite having sent numerous e-mails and phone messages, I HAVE NOT HEARD FROM HIM SINCE!! Kinda strange for a guy who usually answers the phone when he can and religiously send e-mails to update you on orders. Anyone know what is going on? Is he ill, retired? Any idea of how to get a hold of him besides the phone # and e-mail address on the web site? LET ME KNOW, PLEASE!!! Don

[aaronraad]

I left a message on his answering machine and got an email reply the other week. I'm due to contact him again next week to check the progress on my order.

[jimbull34]

I bought a .45 die set and hand press from him in March of this year. In june he said the order was complete to send the other half of the $$ to him and it would be in the mail that week. It is now December 13 and no dies, got the press in August and its about to fall apart after limited use, piece of ****! I have contacted the district attorney in MI about him, after no response to emails, phone calls and by two visits by the sheriff to see whats going on. SOS from him, oh he'll get the dies when I send them, was the response to the deputy... My association with H-G firearms leaves a VERY bad taste in my mouth!!! Just for ya'lls info, one persons experience!

[Prospector Howard]

Wow, another one? What was that other guys' name? Colt something I believe. A spider got him as I recall. Ha Ha Ha!

[tbj555]

Same story all the time, They want money now and take their time sending what you paid for. He must work for Obummer.

[Utah Shooter]

This upsets me. I even vouched for the guy. I really thought he was good to go guys. I really did. I have talked with him back and fourth for over 2 years now and all of the sudden he is gone. Have you checked here http://www.hgfirearms.com/

[Prospector Howard]

Maybe there's alot of deadly spiders in Michigan too. I think I'd be a little PO'd if I paid the guy in June and still no dies. Bummer, jimbull34.

[rodok]

I ordered some dies from him in june/August. He emailed me thanksgiving week and asked for the rest of the money, I told him I sent it already, he replied he mis-post it and would send out my days the Friday after thanksgiving or the Monday following, still have not got them. Getting ready to turn it over to Postal Inspectors since both checks have cleared and were sent through the post office.

[Dave18]

while I don't know the guy, or delt with him, but when someone just drops off the face of the earth, and from the sounds of it, has been around a while,

someone nearby might want to stop by and see what they can find out, almost sounds like one of those deals of divorce, the wife screws the guy over so badly he just lets everything go, :-(

been seeing this more and more

[MOcaster]

I just got this email from him:
"Let me see when I get to the shop in the morning. BTW, not ignoring you!! Had no Internet for five frigging days. Got it back late yesterday and have been dealing with about four hundredfold and some Internet ********.

And when I say NO Internet I mean none!! I have been having trouble sending mail for about a month or so. I write replies, push send, and god knows what happens. Some go. Some go to outbox. Some just do nothing. And hell I did't figure it out for a while. So we call our provider, and they say call yahoo. Yahoo says it the provider. You know where I going with that game! Finally our provider gets on line with us and does some sort of diagnostic. At which point we lose it all! No mail, no connections, nada. That was Tuesday I think!!! Seems to work now. We'll see!

Might be best to try me late in the afternoon tomorrow, if you don't hear from me first. I am shipping a pile of stuff tomorrow And I am chasing some materials. I will be in and out of signals all day I am sure.

Sent from my iPhone"

[rodok]

This guy has more excuses. I was told he was sick then had a family emergency for a week, now his internet is out but somehow managed to be able to use his iPhone to get one reply out, I hope he is truthful that he has stuff going out tomorrow, because I heard that 2 weeks ago.

Rod

[aaronraad]

I left a message on his answering machine and got an email reply the other week. I'm due to contact him again next week to check the progress on my order.

Emailed Friday and received an update today, with a request from John to contact him again at the end of this week. Tis the Season.

[blltsmth]

Here's an update from me, from the time I started this thread. I have left at least ten phone messages because his phone goes right to answering mode,same message every time. NO RESPONSE. My e-mail have also gone un-answered and he has recieved ALL of them I sent because none have come back as undeliverable or any other excuse. I know we all face some kind of dilemma/hardship in life at times. IT IS MUCH EASIER TO KEEP IN CONTACT WITH PEOPLE AND LET THEM KNOW THE SITUATION THAN IT IS TO DROP OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH, EVEN IF YOU ONLY DO IT FOR TEN OR 15 MINUTES A DAY BETWEEN WHATEVER ELSE IS HAPPENING. Most people can relate to most situations, but since no one knows what is going on, where should we all go from here now that he has our money and hasn't returned or provided a product back? SUGGESTIONS ANYONE?

[Rumrunner64]

Ordered a set of dies from him on ebay, on the 12th. He shipped today. I will let you know when I get them.

[1950Hudson]

I had phone and email communication with him on the 10th. Since then I've been hollering into the same black hole that blltsmth has been yelling into.

[midnight]

Ordered dies from him on 11-12-13. Got a tracking # yesterday. should arrive Wed or Thurs. We'll see.

Bob

[Reload3006]

I have a set of 243 dies on order from him I emailed him and he responded right away. He is backed up. He has always been prompt to answer my emails. I am still with holding judgment.

[GMike]

I am in a same boat, about to email him again he send me a nasty email last month about how busy is he and have no time to reply to all emails , terrible costumer service it has been almost 6 months since I have ordered paid for it and nothing. Hire someone to reply to ur phone calls and emails. How do you have time to sell **** on eBay but You cannot fulfill all customer orders you took money from. This is his email to me from October 31
"If you mailed me recently I have not gotten it. No reason to worry, I have you on the board. Looks like you ordered mid July. With an 8-12 week wait that puts us at mid November. Which is about right. Should be pretty close to that. I thought i told you i was pretty much on schedule last time but i might not have! I wish I could put it right to the hour and minute which everyone seems to want these days but I can't. If it takes an hour to lap a die it does. If it takes 18 hours to lap a die it does. And everything backs up. If I spend three hours on a punch and it breaks in testing. Three hours lost. Sorry!! That's the way it works.

No one is more aware than I am that I have back orders and work to finish. I WILL get it done.

I am sorry if I don't spend all my time communicating with customers. I get about a hundred calls and e-mails a day. Some get lost. Some I can't waste time on. 10 min per answer, times 100, divided by 60 min, equals 16.6 hours. Don't leave a lot of time for lathe work!!!! Or sleep. Or family. Or food.

I will get you done as soon as I can.

John

Sent from my iPhone

Emailing him right now, I have ordered press and 223 dies hope it is worth all this bs

[1950Hudson]

I heard back from him a few days ago. He sounds busy, but he said he is shipping orders. Mine is not due for a couple of months, so I am not going to get excited yet. As a self employed person, I know that you need to handle customer service, but there are times when if you spent the time working instead, you could get out the work that the customer is calling about. It is always a balancing act, and sometimes you fall off the teeter-totter.

[rodok]

I've heard back from him also and feel confident I will get my die set, it seems the ones who ordered the complete set up with the press are the only ones that have a hold up. He gave me a ship date of Jan. 6th, I'll be patient till then.

[Sitzme]

I bought a set of dies from him this summer. It took a little while to get them but then I found that the bullets didn't want to eject from the point form die. I sent the die back and have been waiting ever since. At first he was going to try to lap it but then said he would replace it. Being backed up is one thing but I don't like that he is shipping new orders before fixing/replacing mine. I paid in early August. I have been told more than once that it will be "shipped Monday". I really hope that he takes care of things and really is just backed up.

[RwBeV]

Don't hold your breath to long I sent him a check last Feb for a set of dies and press, he wont answer my calls at all now. He had been giving me every excuse you can think of, I gave him the benefit of the doubt but that's done now, he screwed me plain and simple. I have my own shop so I know how easy it is to get behind, most folks just want to know that your still working on there stuff, but to not communicate at all? That's BS, if I sound mad that's because I am, I have bought quite a few things from him in the past and thought that we had become pretty good friends, we spent lots of time just talking "Shop" but I guess that's done now. I have friends on some of the Forums that have been having the same problem as me, so like I said don't hold your breath to long.
Bob

[blltsmth]

UPDATE!!!! I finally heard from John before Christmas that my core-seat die was ready to ship. After 10 days of him being snowed in and with no power, THE DIE FINALLY MADE IT HERE JAN 2, 2014. IT EVEN FITS AND WORKS WELL. I guess we should just chalk this up to being backed up on orders/bad luck/bad customer service, WHATEVER!! My thanks to Mr. Floyd in Utah for making me a core seat die according to my dimensional drawing and what great turn around time!!!You really got me making bullets again without having to wait months and months!!! Great workmanship and great customer service. THANKS LaFaun!!!!!

[jimbull34]

Heres my up date on H-G firearms, I talked with the sheriff's department there six weeks ago and the deputy went out to see him and John told him that my stuff would be sent out in a week. That was six weeks ago and still no dies, not contact. I am talking with the sheriffs deputy tonight when he goes on shift. He is going to make another report and turn the whole matter over to the district attorney for proscuition for fraud. Any one who has the same problem can call the sheriffs office at231-839-4338 Deputy Nick Brief.

[mold maker]

Success is a killer. I feel sorry for John, same as I did for most of the other machinist, trying to produce something, to make our casting and reloading, easier/faster/better.
I also understand the frustration of his customers.
A hobby suddenly turns into a monster, that cost a fortune, in money and time.
Being totally slammed with orders, is a testament to its inventor, while becoming a ball and chain around his neck.
I don't know John from Adam, but the story is the same.

[mactool]

Im in the same boat as you. I ordered a 223 3 die set on flea bay end of september, and ordered a lead tip die on the side all in all $712 incl postage, and then an additional $143 for custom fees and handling. In the beginning we had a great communication, and the lead tip die was almost ready. At some point I couldnt reach him and filed a complaint on Ebay. He promtly answered. and the day befoe the complaint would be cancelled he mailed me Again, and naive as i was believed him, and i didnt follow up on the complaint. on the Nov 22 he wrote and told me he was not dragging hes heels, but needed som spring wire, which he had ordered from Corbin, it seemed that it would arrive the day after, and then just 5 min of Work, and the dies would be mailed. Since the I havent heard from him, havent been able to reach him on the phone, or on mail. Today I called Ebay, and they would, out of courtesy, mail him Again, but other than that my Money seems to lost :-( so maybe deputy Nick Brief is a solution. But handeling a fraud case from over seas, well, hmmm maybe not

[Sitzme]

I exchanged a couple emails with John about the point form die I'm waiting on. It was supposed to have shipped about 3 Mondays ago and apparently didn't. Anyone know anything new?

[MOcaster]

I got his home phone number from him a few days ago. (231) 839-2014. I didn't get it but a "friend" did. When the "friend" made the connection between him and myself, John promptly replied to my emails.

[300savage]

at this rate it sounds like his days of being too busy may soon be a thing of the past.

[RwBeV]

After I contacted the Sheriffs department up there, I got an email 2 days later that he was sending my dies. I emailed back and asked about my press and he pretty much blamed all his problems on me, and the press is not in the mail even though he told me he had it done almost a year ago. Im still waiting for the dies to show up in the mail. What good are a set of dies with no press??

Bob

[blltsmth]

Here is another UPDATE: John contacted me on 1/3/2014 by e-mail and said he had found the ejection pin punches for my 223 die set and didn't remember what he needed to do with them. I replied that he was supposed to be replacing them because the ones he sent were too small. Been over a month now and despite numerous e-mails and calls, NO RESPONSE!!! It is a good thing I have the capability to make my own ejection pins and replace the ones I wear out or I would be sitting here looking at this die set and wandering what the ?????.

[Socal147]

Another one to avoid. All good to know info....... Thanks all!

[Sitzme]

3/10/14 My point form die came in. First bullet stuck, backed die out, 2nd bullet stuck. Started checking things and it looks like after core seating the bullets are coming out the same size or a smidge larger than the point form die. My understanding is they should be .0003-.0005 smaller. I made some new ones and set the core seat die so that the bullet just barely stayed in the die. Still pretty close.

When I ordered this set I was one of the early orders and I intended to review them. That may still happen but it may be a while until I can sort everything out. Before reviewing I need to be sure that any problems are not due to my operation of the set.

[blltsmth]

I would seriously check those dies out to the nth degree!!Dealing with John has been NOTHING short of pleasant! My core swage die was wrong on the threads and took 3 months to fix it. There is probably little doubt that the final size on your die is too large. Haste makes waste and it sounds like john is busy trying to play catch-up and ignoring EVERYONE in the process. my 2 cents worth! Don

[Sitzme]

Well I emailed John about the sticking bullets and he had some advice including mash a couple pure lead ones first. The lead ones also stuck. Under a magnifiying glass it looked like the point had roughness from not being lapped or polished quite enough. Someone here posted a while back that it needed to be close to perfect. The side walls looked good and seem about the right size so I ordered some diamond paste to lap/polish the tip but just couldn't wait. I made a couple of cane_man's bullet laps and used Brasso to polish. It is not coarse enough but I wanted to be careful. I would polish for about 10 minutes and go stick another bullet but they started coming out easier. Then one gave kind of a pop and almost fell out. I gave it another 20 minutes of polishing and the die works with bullets now. I will spend more time on it when the diamond paste arrives but I got enough bullets (22) to verify function. The amount of force to eject seems to vary a little and I assume that is why the tips are different. The cases are Federal and the cores weighed consistant. I feel better about all this now. Here are 9 of the first 22. I am new to swaging.

99417

[Bowfisher]

I've had good dealings with HG in the past, but this last deal has left me infuriated. I won't be dealing with him again, for anything... I don't know what his issue is but I had to get the Deputy in his county involved to get some of my stuff I paid for. Still waiting on more...

[historicfirearms]

I live about a half hour from this guys shop. Been here 37 years and quite involved in shooting and guns the whole time. Before now, I have never heard of this guy. Next time I am over that way, I will stop in to see what's up.

[blltsmth]

Run a check on flea-bay for swaging dies.....he has three or four sets up for auction!!! It would be real nice if John would at least take care of the other people who have bought dies from him and are awaiting corrections to those dies, or missing parts for same before he dissatisfies new customers......still waiting since January for ejection pin punches he said he would send ASAP. Just my other 2 cents worth! Don

[Chuck Walla]

I just checked evil-bay and you are right. Man this guy is someone to stear clear of, thanks for this thread. I also saw that other guy selling a set for $475 that's not even finished. I had watched his videos on you tube and he is definitely very unskilled in die making. There is a thread on him from way back that members here noticed. He says on his evil-bay ad that he's getting out of it because he can't make any money at it. I wonder why. You can't sell junk for 4 or 500 dollars. There are some real goofballs trying to make dies out there.

[GMike]

I am still waiting for him to send me mine stuff and he had made every excuse in the book why he is not sending it to me and it he told me everything was done last month but I guess post office is 30 days away on a really good horse. Than he send me a tracking number to shut me up and he never took it to post office it said electronic shipment received April 21 and it was 2 day priority and now is May 7th lol I am about to fly over there and get my **** it is getting really annoying and he gets mad at me for sending him emails he took my money and now I have to pull teeth to get it back I am so mad.

[rodok]

As I stated in the other post I got my press Monday and the dies a month or so ago, he still owes me a core casting mold or my money back for it (which I can probably say goodbye to). I heard every excuse from flooding, heat, not having any money to send it, etc. I got postal inspectors involved, and the BBB. I suggest to stay away from him, I really thought I was in trouble when his website went down a few weeks ago, but I guess he got enough money to get it re-hosted.

Rod

[GMike]

Ok I have finally received first package I got my 223 dies and to be honest they look like <junk> I am still waiting for my press that I will send him a email. I will post some pictures later on so u guys can see what am I talking about. I would stay away from him and his product. Rodok if u can send me few pic of ur dies I want to see if urs look any different than mine my email is dsmpower916@yahoo.com

[tiger762]

I know it's probably no big consolation to you guys waiting on your orders, but these alerts that you've posted are worth their weight in gold. Speaking only for myself, if there is even a hint of unprofessionalism with a mfgr, I will never order from them even if they do make it right.

[rodok]

That is why I am posting this stuff to keep others from making the same mistake, I know it sucks for us, but I don't want other people to get screwed by a bad company. I could of dealt a lot better with him if he would be honest and say I'm behind, than come up with excuse after excuse for months. I ordered from him for his turn around time, I could of got corbins just about as fast and with no hassle, you get what you pay for. When I purchased from him there was no information on him at the time except he made a good product, but I think quality of his product has slid as well as all the BS you have to put up with.

[Bonz]

Are there any swage die makers that deliver as promised within a reasonable amount of time ?

[rodok]

My problem with it is this. He emails me the week of Thanksgiving saying go ahead and send the rest of your money, I'll get it out next week (I already paid in full at that time), I wait 2 weeks and nothing, then I email him and he says January 6th, everytime I email him he has had a flood, been on vacation, no electric, no money to send it, too busy answering emails. I had no problem on the wait, just the excuses, if he would of honestly told me what was going on I wouldn't have a problem. I waited a month from when the dies were finished until he had enough money to send them, the only time I got worried was when his website went down for non-payment. Never once did I receive a email saying I am so far behind its going to take me a little longer than expected, his replies were always I'm almost done it will be out next week, then I would wait 3 weeks and email him again, and give me some excuse.

[tiger762]

I can believe they are swamped. In a sense, I am delighted that swaging is catching on. Because if an obscure corner of ammo loading like swaging is, then casting and reloading must be getting REALLY popular. Now if all these new gun enthusiasts would kindly vote for pro-gun candidates I'd be chuffed to bits. Anyhoo...

If I haven't put money down, I don't mind the wait. I have enough dies to keep me busy. I have RCECO 22LR/224 kit. Waiting on a 3-die set to make 310-4S for the AK round. He's also making me a point form die for the Tokarev. I'm on at least 3 of Mihec's mold group buy waiting ists, but I have four of his molds already to stay busy with. No money up front, no problem. Waiting on a BT Sniper 500 die set which will use 45acp brass. I hav e some money up front, but his reputation seems good enough to also not worry about it.

I'm big into the NFA ownership process (MG/silencers) so I'm already used to waiting. I have paperwork in since February for an old-school Coastal MAC can. I'll probably see it NEXT February. I believe the secret is to be on so many waiting lists, that over time, there's a steady stream of emails saying "your custom butt-scratching dies are ready..." to take one's mind off of the newly-submitted purchase requests..


Are there any swage die makers that deliver as promised within a reasonable amount of time ?

[Chuck Walla]

I have to say, this is one of the most frustrating things I've ever looked into. The ridiculous cost of the dies, long waits, and what appear to be unscrupulous people making dies is a real turn off. This guy is totally someone I wouldn't trust, and everyone else I contacted is way backed up. Now I see why the local guy charges $1,500 for a set (because he can). I also see why some members are making their own dies, with all the problems trying to buy them. Good luck to all trying to get some swaging dies for a reasonable price and wait time, cause you'll need it.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I am patient. Quality dies take time to make. Sounds like this John fellow is a real gem.

[BT Sniper]

"Reasonable price" boy that could be a whole thread right there.

Today's tool and die shops charge $80-$100 an hour. With everything provided in a $1500 22 cal package you can imagine what might happen if you went down to a local machine shop and see what they would charge. Suddenly the prices that the few of us offer these dies for don't seem that much. I can guarantee you guys it takes me a lot longer then 15-20 hours of labor to complete one 22 cal package.

I felt the same way when I wanted to get my first set of swage dies and looked into the prices, so I decided to attempt to make my own. It was very challenging (to put it mildly, more like very frustrating and tried my patience many times) and opened my eyes to the extent of labor involved, suddenly those prices didn't look that high any longer :)

BT

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I see the topic of "price" of swaging dies come up often. These are NOT reloading dies. These dies are WAY more labor intensive and require much more precision. At the current prices that the die makers are charging, I would consider it a good deal. Take a $20 set of Lee dies to your local machine shop and have them duplicate them. It won't be $20.

[DukeInFlorida]

The bottom line is:

Don't go for the cheapest price. And, don't jump on the bandwagon for some newly arrived on the scene person who wants to take advantage of the current fascination with swaging.

Spend your hard earned money on some person or company who will:
1) Give you what you expected.
2) Deliver better quality than you had hoped for.
3) Is there, well after the sale and delivery, to provide support and replacement parts should they ever be needed.
4) Has a good reputation and is well known in the community.

I have to tell you...... that's a small handful of providers. Everyone else is not worth your time or money.

[Bonz]

I have to tell you...... that's a small handful of providers.

That's the problem. Just not enough skilled people making these swaging dies. After reading the threads on these swaging dies for months, I finally decided to jump in a place an order for several dies because it seemed that my timing was right. 11 months ago when I placed my order, there were a few new die makers advertising comparable products in a short timeframe. I decided to place my order with the person that had been making and selling dies for a while and has a great reputation for doing so, instead of ordering with the 'newcomers'. My hope was that these 'newcomers' would funnel off some of the demand. Obviously they all fizzled out, as far as I know. Once again, the demand for these swaging dies falls on the shoulders of the talented few.

[Falken Hawke]

I ordered a press, paid in full, on 5/2013 and have yet to receive it despite being "finished and getting ready to ship".

I realize that things take time so when I'm given a 3 month lead time and after 4 I ask for an update and I'm told another month, I accept that. When I check again 2 months later and told "soon", I accept that too. After checking again in another 3 months and not getting any replies for another month, It tends to get "a tad" frustrating.

This went off and on for over a year. I even got a couple of pictures of the supposed item ready to be assembled and shipped. Three months after that I gave up and wished John an excruciatingly painful and tortuously long life and accepted the guy basically jacked me out of my hard earned money.

Well, ALMOST accepted. Now I'm posting negative comments on the 'Net...

...and after that last email I sent, he actually had the cajhones to give me yet another one of his B.S. excuses about why and that he'll ship it "soon". "Soon" apparently is approximately "over a year"...

This is not the way a first post should be but after a year of dealing with this guy, I felt others should know what it is they are dealing with. I guess I was a little late with the heads up from the looks of things though.

[rasto]

If I were you, I would contact police to take care of him.
This case is no go.

[Theditchman]

There seems to be more and more victims coming forward who have been ripped off by this guy...maybe you all need to make a list of who's who and present it to his states attorney ...that should shake him up

[Chuck Walla]

This looks like it keeps getting worse and worse. One of the things that bothers me the most about all this is the demand by die makers of the substantial money up front. When you think about it, hundreds of dollars up front and after a year or 2 hoping you'll get your dies---wow. That's taking a big risk. What are you going to do if the guy you ordered from has some health issue or turns into this John guy. I remember reading some good things about him in a thread, boy that didn't turn out to be the case. Homey don't play that game, I work too hard for my money. If I can't get the whole setup for .224's within a reasonable time frame for around $700, I'll just keep buying 55gr Hornady bullets. Anything over that, just doesn't make sense. Good luck guys.

[BT Sniper]

Just to be sure I don't get lumped into the same category as many of the so called die makers here that have had their share of challenges I feel I need to stand up here briefly and say a little something. When it comes to payments I have been very flexible to my customers needs, when customers purchase my die sets and pay with credit card noting is charged till I have dies ready to ship.

It is troubling to see the black eye that these latest attempts from so called die makers give those of us that have been successful in making, offering and fulfilling swage die orders.

There is very few short cuts in product or cost when it comes to investing in a set of swage dies. Corbin, RCE, Blackmon and myself (BTSniper) is always easy for me to advise and recommend to potential customers. Kaine, Edge and now it seems HG Firearms have all been a risky investment.

It is always a great time to get into making your own bullets but for heavens sake....... know what you are buying and who you are buying it from.

Good shooting and swage on!

Brian Thurner

BTSniper llc.

[sprinkintime]

Does anybody know if Die Sinking has been tried in making point forming dies, the technology has come a long way including finishes. It would have to be a big shop due to the cost of these machines. Just a thought, Sprink

[Prospector Howard]

I'd say it's mostly about mass production compared to small production. Reloading dies are precision made, they just mass produce them. The major manufacturers just don't see enough business to open up a line of swaging dies or they would have already. Probably never going to happen. If they did though the small guys would be in a world of hurt.
I see the topic of "price" of swaging dies come up often. These are NOT reloading dies. These dies are WAY more labor intensive and require much more precision. At the current prices that the die makers are charging, I would consider it a good deal. Take a $20 set of Lee dies to your local machine shop and have them duplicate them. It won't be $20.

[marten]

EDM produces an excellent finish and using 'interpolation' dimensions can be hit perfectly in pre hardened steel (or carbide) which is the icing on the cake.

[tja6435]

My Corbin order shipped yesterday, placed order on 3/29/14. Customs dies, custom punches and a press. I had planned on Oct soonest per his backlog, but they must've not been too custom not to be run with another batch of dies near the same caliber

[perotter]

......
I felt the same way when I wanted to get my first set of swage dies and looked into the prices, so I decided to attempt to make my own. It was very challenging (to put it mildly, more like very frustrating and tried my patience many times) and opened my eyes to the extent of labor involved, suddenly those prices didn't look that high any longer :)

BT

I started viewing this area of the forum about the time you started posting about your progress in making them for the commercial market. It didn't take long to see why they cost what they cost. Making a set for one's self, IMO, would be a labor of love. Making them to sell as a business is for the select few.

Swage dies weren't cheap to order when I first looked into them in 30 years ago. I have managed to pick up used ones here and there over the years.

[iroquois]

I unfortunately made a large HGFirearms purchase and only received a portion of the order. I don't even know if what I have functions properly.
The original agreement was half up front and half on delivery. Upon delivery John sent an email confirming the package was going out the door and to send the last check. I sent the last check and waited for two weeks and nothing never came.
This year he indicated he had health issues so I was willing to wait to help the guy out.
I've received two bogus tracking numbers this year from this guy.

Now that I've found this thread my whole theory behind John/HGFirearms was correct. He has given me every story the book for the delays except alien abduction.
Does anyone here have an update with any current investigations?

[GMike]

It is amazing how he gives everyone same story every year same story. I try to email him few times a week and no response my press is lost somewhere lol. I got the dies but no ejector pin like last guy and press was in the mail . Few fake tracking # ect I agree we should make a list of people that have been exploited by him and file a law suit or contact local law enforcement. He need a to be honest not tell us stories. When I get home I will post pics of his work I am not too happy with finish product I can't even try them and get more disappointed. I can't believe he is doing all of this. I wish I knew he was scamming people like this.

[mactool]

Im in for a law suit or what ever is possible. I currently have an order for $848, and all i got is few mails, and a lot of B*****t

[Bonz]

a hundred years ago, we'd be out looking for a tall tree...

[mactool]

a hundred years ago, we'd be out looking for a tall tree...

Have crossed my mind, but as a civilized bloke i can settle for less :-)

[Theditchman]

I cant believe there are no lawyers or cops on this site that can give some advise to all you guys that have been screwed by this clown..lets face it your never going to get your money back and until something happens to him legally his list of scammed folks is just going to get longer and longer...he has found an easy way to make money and it don't look like he has any intention of stopping...its like a Ponzi scheme with parts

[jimbull34]

I posted here a few months ago about my problems with HG firearms and I finally went to the sheriff at Lake city MI and Deputy Brief took my statement and as of Monday the DA, Wm Donnelly hasI believe he said five people that took my advise and filed complaints, He is reviewing the files now, but he first impression of the case is that John Gilbert is conducting a fraudlent operation. All I can tell you guys is call the sheriffs office (231-839-4338) file a complaint and then call the DA (231-839-3111) and let him know that you filed a complaint so you can get added to the list. I am hoping for some sort of gain from all this, either my order filled or refunded. I was also asked if I was willing to come to MI to testify if it went to court, and I said it would be difficult for me to do, I live in South Al., but I would. I will spend the money necessary traveling to MI to get this guy out of the business.

[Theditchman]

Good for you...I hope all who got screwed come forward..money is so damn hard to come by honestly who can afford to just give it away for nothing...some people just need to get whats comeing to
them (except me of course)

[garym1a2]

Would their be a case number assigned?

I posted here a few months ago about my problems with HG firearms and I finally went to the sheriff at Lake city MI and Deputy Brief took my statement and as of Monday the DA, Wm Donnelly hasI believe he said five people that took my advise and filed complaints, He is reviewing the files now, but he first impression of the case is that John Gilbert is conducting a fraudlent operation. All I can tell you guys is call the sheriffs office (231-839-4338) file a complaint and then call the DA (231-839-3111) and let him know that you filed a complaint so you can get added to the list. I am hoping for some sort of gain from all this, either my order filled or refunded. I was also asked if I was willing to come to MI to testify if it went to court, and I said it would be difficult for me to do, I live in South Al., but I would. I will spend the money necessary traveling to MI to get this guy out of the business.

[GMike]

Rodol did u get ur dies my came in mail 3 weeks ago and press is missing still he is not replaying to my emails nothing coming up. Dies dont look to good in my opinion bad craftsmanship I will post pics I hope that yours are better than mine. I don't know how to upload a pic :/

[GMike]

Let's try again 107610

[GMike]

One more as u can treads are all messed up

[GMike]

More pic

[gmike81]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/13/ynujaqe8.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/13/ha2abype.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/13/9uvyzyje.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/13/bazuve7a.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/13/y9u8unet.jpg

[gmike81]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/13/evahy5ur.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/13/u3ege7ys.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/13/a8a6uma8.jpg

As you can see ........ This dosent look good to me at all

[jimbull34]

Those pic's are called "using tool steel with a dull cutting tool to thread with". He uses 06 tool steel and it is very hard to make perfect threads on if your cutter is dull. This is what it looks like to me anyway. I've stopped using the o6 and a10 tool steel in favor of 12L14. Tools much better, much easier to work with and gives a good result. It will harden to almost the same hardness as o6 and a10.

[gmike81]

But if treads are not good don't u think press will destroy them after heavy use or will this work ? If they don't thread nicely in I won't be able to back them out. Can't wait to get the press and see what happens than. I have emailed him 7times since yesterday and nothing lol and I have send him this pictures and complained about them. He will probably make some excuse. If I don't get anything this month I will be working in a lawsuit there is enough people that we can try to do something.

[Sitzme]

The die holder for the Lee Classic Cast that he made for me has threads that are so bad that they start to lock up after a little pressure is applied. I had already made my own so his is in the scrap box. Same rounded bottom on the threads. The first parts were oversize so at least I could run a die down them and clean it up. Threading is not that hard and he shouldn't have shipped this stuff.

[BT Sniper]

I don't want to add gasoline to the fire but outfits like this (and ones previous) are giving legit die makers and swaging in general a black eye. Did anyone ever see any bullets "John" at H-G firearms made from "his" swage dies before a purchase was made? How about a quality up close picture of his press? his dies? loaded rounds with his bullets? accuracy potential of his bullets?

If I may make a suggestion to those of you looking to potentially invest in a swage die provider with questionable background and/or abilities.....do your research! If no reviews of the equipment is available from other customers you should at a minimum request

1. up close and quality picture of the dies
2. picture of the bullets made from the dies next to a similar commercial bullet to compare
3. picture of the loaded round and possibly the gun that shot them
4. picture of the accuracy potential achieved from these bullets on target at a typical distance (100 yrds rifle 50' pistol)

This is just a bare minimum in my opinion. Even when new comers to the swage die business take these steps customers have still been burned ie. Edge Dies llc.

Corbin, RCE, Blackmon, and myself have established reputations. These are the die makers I recommend to all my potential customers when they inquire. Of course there are a few top end die makers for benchrest out there too that get top dollar for there talents and skill. There may be a couple others I may have missed but again do your research and invest with caution in those new comers to the swage die business. This is the third case of a new comer to the swage die business that has left a black eye on the industry.

Swaging your own bullets is a great investment in your shooting hobby and a heck of a lot of fun too, yes it is a substantial investment but I certainly hate to see anyone get burned and loose money because I know that customer is less likely to invest in swaging again in the future.

I hope those of you that are at risk of loosing your money with this latest challenged set of swage dies are able to reclaim your investment. To those of you looking to start making your own bullets and looking for a quality set of swage dies... There is certainly no better time then now to make your own bullets, you can break free from those that attempt to regulate our shooting needs but for goodness sake.... invest wisely in who you choose to provide your expensive dies.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Wow. I can't believe he would even ship that.

[Sitzme]

"It ain't bragging if you done it"

I bought from a new guy and while my dies work, they didn't work straight out of the box. I wound up waiting just a little less time to have everything than if I had bought from the established vendors. What I bought was supposedly done and ready to ship. It took from early August to sometime this spring for my "ready to ship" gear to be useable. Many polite inquiries followed by some not so polite got sent.

There is plenty of room for new vendors but they need to prove themselves by producing a product that is acceptable to the client, ship it in the promised time, and stand behind it. The promised time can be years if that is advertized. Promising a short time or in stock items and then taking a long time will be unacceptable. Quality is somewhat subjective but the dies had damn well better screw together.

BT gives away a lot of free advise and information, seems to put out a good product, and his wait time doesn't suck any worse than anyone else's. The good vendors have products that are in demand and have proven themselves. There is going to be a wait. Guaranteed. The quality and service is also likely to be guaranteed. With the new guys you roll the dice. Some will be good, some not.

Those of us who tried the new guy and came away either unsatisfied (lucky ones) or totally burned probably all would agree with the advise that BT posted. Note that he mentions several of his competitors by name and urges people to search out others. Sorry, but I see sound advice not some rooster crowing. If I ever scratch up enough for .308 dies, I will pay the price and wait for one of these established vendors to produce them.

[Bonz]

The waiting time is the real killer… I've been on a waiting list for a year now and I hope to get my swaging die sets before the end of 2014, which will be about a 1 1/2 year wait. The problem seems to be a lot of demand for the swaging dies and too few skilled "tooled up" people making them.

[BT Sniper]

Don't forget a couple more of our local vendors to research too. Red River Rick with KAL Tool and Die in Canada knows what he is doing and makes excellent tools from what I have seen. I also here good things about Laufan's work with A L Floyd swaging products.

link to our local vendors

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?111-Vendor-Sponsors

I'll stop interjecting my words of advise now and let the topic get back to H-G Firearms.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

108043

[303british.com]

I don't think your link works. I clicked on it and got this: Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sendmessage.php).

You're welcome.

[marten]

An apt quote;

When I was a youngster over 50 years ago, I would occasionally tell my father how well I had done at something. His reply from long ago applies very much.

“Son, self praise is no recommendation.”

[marten]

Regarding the deletion of posts.
The swaging forum is so polluted nowadays that any one willing to post useful info does not appear to bother any more, I wonder why.
Anyone wanting info from me regarding die making / engineering can ask via PM!

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

If you don't like the forum and think it is polluted you have the right the go elsewhere and share your vast knowledge with members on other forums. BUT, for the time being, I think we are really lucky to have an experienced die make producing QUALITY dies that have a proven track record right here on our own forum. Not only is he quick to help members with questions, but his customer service is top notch. I am not a BT Sniper super fan, as I own and use Corbin, Lafaun's, and UP North's dies/equipment as well.

[plus1hdcp]

Regarding the deletion of posts.
The swaging forum is so polluted nowadays that any one willing to post useful info does not appear to bother any more, I wonder why.
Anyone wanting info from me regarding die making / engineering can ask via PM!

I would hate to see anyone remove themselves and their contributions from this forum. I still consider myself a novice swager and learn from those who post here. I welcome your insight. As to this thread, I do not like to hear from members they have received sub-standard equipment or no equipment at all. We can all learn from our successes and failures and if these members can steer new customers in a direction which they will have a better outcome, our whole community is well served. I do not know about posts being withdrawn and cannot comment upon that but I will vouch for BT as I am pleased with my purchase. Again, to be on topic, I hope those members find someway to find a way out of their predicament.

[Prospector Howard]

This is about all I have to say, except I'd like to see less thread hijacking around here.

[303british.com]

The tone of the board is different these days. The explanation I got was that many of the mods left after the site changed hands last December. A percentage of the long time members feel the place has changed, and not for the good. Some have left for greener pastures. I am told that a bunch have taken up residence at the Cast Bullet Association website.

WRT HG Firearms, I believe that he is a one man operation. The danger inherent in small shops is sickness, too many orders or becoming disillusioned when the work overwhelms you. Most die makers are one man shows and tend to fade away over time. Some of the vendors here would be advised to take notice of this.

[gmike81]

Ok I have been trying to get in contact with him for a while his phone is disconnected and website is abandoned no replays to emails. Does anyone have any info on this guy I need info on him for legal action and if anyone is doing the same thing please contact me !! Thank you

[Sitzme]

It looks like his stuff is gone from eBay. Don't know if it sold though. He had about 3 sets on there a few weeks ago.

[Rainier]

108888

[mactool]

I got it to. Just wondering if the new Company will pay me the custom fees, because i dont think the shipping contract with E...bay is valid anymore

[Rainier]

That's assuming there really is another "new company" - just saying...

[Theditchman]

I have never heard such BS in my life....this is just a stalling tactic to sound reasonable and gain a few more months...he will come up with all kinds of reasons to delay this so called merger and because most are hoping to get a few bucks back they will believe him hoping that its true....well my friends don't be naïve and see this for what it is...You will not get your money back unless you go get it through the law..Good luck to you all !!!


and see it for what it is

[sure shot bob]

I Too fell for johns BS everything that everybody saying happened to me too I would love to get my money back the Dies are **** nothing works like it's supposed to the press is a piece of junk I ask him to make me two more punches and and it took me 3 months to get them after the first 2 weeks he told me that they were ready to go I sent him the money three months later I have the two punches that he made me and they were not right the part that you thread into the RAM would not even thread into the Ram they were .025 to .030 to small and when I send him an email he got very belligerent with me I told him that I am a machinist that's what I do and it was a good thing that I had access to a lathe and I made two new punches myself but everything else **** I'm willing to join the lawsuit if we could get it Done but the problem is he will just file bankruptcy and we're still screwed if anybody out there has access to a lathe its not that hard I remade two punches and thinking about getting tooling to make new dies

[303british.com]

I know the frustration of being in situations like this, and Lord knows, misery loves company. I think the affect parties should PM each other and formulate a plan for the way forward. I would do this privately because of the possible legal implications.

For those of you that are new to swaging or are considering it, some advice: Buy from a well known, established company like Corbins for your initial purchases. They are less affected by illness, supply problems or taking on too much work. Their machinists know what they are doing. That's a plus in this game.

Larger companies that have been around for a while have a reputation to protect, and have a lot of experience dealing with the needs of new people and old hands. Will you pay more? Yes, but what is the alternative? In the case of the people who have paid HG Firearms and received nothing, well, another few dollars would have saved them time, money and pi$$pot full of aggravation. I'm not saying this to be a jerk. I'm hoping that new people will learn from this and avoid the pitfalls.

For those of you that feel you've been taken, PM each other and take some action.

[rodok]

I agree on all of us getting together, we can complain and rant and rave and keep anyone else from getting ripped off, but we need to get either product or our money back. I got postal inspectors involved and I did get everything but a core mold, I know I'm lucky to be out only that, but will join with others to make a case. I do know he has seen this post because with my contact with it he mentioned it, so we do need to make a effort to do it through pm's and get something rolling, your welcome to pm me and between us we can try and figure something out.

Rod

[jimbull34]

A quick update on my situation with HG, Deputy Brief has turned over to the DA in MI the case file and there are now five of us that has registered complaints to the DA, William Donnelly. I have talked with Donnelly at great length and he, supposedly, is going to proceed with fraud charges against Gilbert, which according to Brief, is not his real name, imagine that! If you have had problems with HG firearms and want to do something about it, Nick Brief 231-839-4338, William Donnelly, DA 231-839-3111. Can't guarantee any thing will get done, but at least I'm trying! (very trying my wife says!)

[ncbearman]

Sounds like this one needs to go to DEADBEAT status. Sorry you guys are havin' to go through this. Stay within the law. BT will be able to serve your swage needs just fine in the future. He's an awesome guy!

[Rainier]

Anyone have any new "news"?

[haak48]

He's back under a new name.........complete22 caliber bullet swaging kit (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=271563169409)

[Theditchman]

Unfortunately its hard to give up easy money.....

[Stephen Cohen]

I notice he is offering Priority post to Australia, I wonder how many from this side of the world gets taken.

[Sitzme]

What are the names that he has used or is using?

[midnight]

If it's him, he is using "Small Game Company" as the name. Says he acquired the die works of a local manufacturer and will only sell "in stock items". He is now offering two sizes of swaging presses and has them pictured. We'll see.

Bob

[Sitzme]

I wonder if this is why he would never provide a tracking number?

[jimbull34]

I got an email from Deputy Brief today stating that John was indited on 5 counts of felony fraud and arrested and is sitting in jail as I speak. So anyone who is awaiting anything from HG firearms, it'll be a bit....

[tiger762]

Good work, guys! I've had no exposure to this but always appreciate the heads-up about people like that.


I got an email from Deputy Brief today stating that John was indited on 5 counts of felony fraud and arrested and is sitting in jail as I speak. So anyone who is awaiting anything from HG firearms, it'll be a bit....

[Theditchman]

Ask that Deputy if he can send us his mugshot and publish it here for all to see and take heed of what happens to scammers

[waksupi]

Ask that Deputy if he can send us his mugshot and publish it here for all to see and take heed of what happens to scammers

Good idea.

[just bill]

Hey guys I had a problem for a year with a very large multi million client firm. Hours on the phone, then nothing. I made a complaint with the better business bureau and less than 48 hrs they couldn't make corrections fast enough, just a thought.
Bill

[jimbull34]

Joe,
What was the forum you went too and got tis **** from? I do have first person experience and will gladly go there and "run my mouth". I don't like being screwed, (without a kiss) and when I find someone who has been doing it for some time now, I do my best to make others aware of it. Sounds to me like this guy was sorta pissed that you were informing people about HG and it might screw up his sale.... send me a pm with the forum and where you were...if you want.

[Utah Shooter]

Oh no it was not the seller. It was others on the forum. I kind of get that they were just sticking up for him as fellow brother/sister members do. It is not even there now and I get the feeling that if I were to just have sent the seller a message and not posted he would have understood and removed.

[jimbull34]

Just an update, got a letter from the DA in MI yesterday. John is being charged with five counts of common law fraud involving five victums. He also sent a victim impact statement for each of us to fill out. It took a while but maybe this individual will finally be put out of business, for now anyway. Problem is, we are still out out money/dies/presses. I just hate a thief and a crook....

[pricedo]

It's a rough economy out there and everybody is looking for a way to make a buck and make ends meet.
Sounds like a guy who took a $49.95 mail in a coupon from the back of a gun rag course to be a gunsmith and found it was a little more complicated than he first thought.
Entrepreneurship gone wrong.
Unless you're a mechanical prodigy which apparently John isn't gunsmithing is a skillset that takes years to build.
I'd write it off to experience.
Hiring a lawyer for a civil suit would be throwing good money after bad and unless it's rape, armed robbery or murder it's hard to get the cops to spend any kinda time on penny ante rip off artists.
The cops are just too strapped for investigators, resources and time.
He probably hasn't got a pot to pizz in.
Can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

[mold maker]

It's a rough economy out there and everybody is looking for a way to make a buck and make ends meet.
Sounds like a guy who took a $49.95 mail in a coupon from the back of a gun rag course to be a gunsmith and found it was a little more complicated than he first thought.
Entrepreneurship gone wrong.
Unless you're a mechanical prodigy which apparently John isn't gunsmithing is a skillset that takes years to build.
I'd write it off to experience.
Hiring a lawyer for a civil suit would be throwing good money after bad and unless it's rape, armed robbery or murder it's hard to get the cops to spend any kinda time on penny ante rip off artists.
The cops are just too strapped for investigators, resources and time.
He probably hasn't got a pot to pizz in.
Can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

I agree with the bloodless stone, but you can cement it in place so it gathers no more moss.

[jimbull34]

I received a call from the DA in MI the other day about the trial, charges against HG firearms and arranged to have my testimony done telephonically and I'm guessing the other five people who pressed charges are going to be able to do the same. My wife has come down with cancer so I am not going to be able to go to MI for the trial, which I was planning on doing if this matter got that far. Apparently, Johns lawyer is trying to get the court to let him make restitution in all five cases instead of facing fraud charges, we'll see what happens and I will post the results here....

[Theditchman]

That don't sound like justice to me....screwing dozens of people and only having to pay restitution to the 5 who complained...Come on everybody..Everyone who got screwed by this guy step up and complain to the DA..let the DA see there where lots more folks he scammed

[rolltide]

If it's him, he is using "Small Game Company" as the name. Says he acquired the die works of a local manufacturer and will only sell "in stock items". He is now offering two sizes of swaging presses and has them pictured. We'll see.

Bob

If he goes by seanharvey123 on ebay, I just ordered a 6mm die set from this "Gentleman" through ebay. He tried to sell it to me cheaper if I would send him payment direct, circumventing ebay. I refused (no buyer protection if I did that, plus I get kicked off ebay, he should get kicked off). Paid for item the next day after he accepted my offer through ebay. I waited a week. No tracking number and no item. I opened a case against him with Ebay. He was very belligerent and verbally abusive with his reply. Dropping f-bombs and so forth. He sent a bogus tracking number (hoping I would just close the case I guess ?) I did not close the case. I contacted Ebay by phone to let them know I would elevate the case, and I got a refund. This guy is just bad business. I will never deal with him again, not if he was giving stuff away.

Roll Tide

[R.Ph. 380]

Pictured die set has terrible looking threading.How could he represent those as new?

[Theditchman]

How can this guy still be on Ebay?? I thought he was in the slammer? .. I think this is just another scammer jumping on the wagon

[midnight]

I hate to admit it but I bought a draw die to draw down 9 mm cases from him. He actually sent it to me. The first time I used it the punch bent into an S shape. The 5/8- 24 threads were some of the worst I have ever seen. I just chalked it up to experience and moved on. Guess I should have warned the rest of you guys. Now I make my own draw dies and punches. Mine are 10X better than his and I never saw a lathe in my life until I got my Logan last May.

Bob

[rolltide]

Sounds like I am LUCKY he didn't send the product. The only reason I took the chance was EBay's money back refund policy. Sorry that happened to you midnight. At least you are well out of it anyway, and doing well yourself. I am thinking of taking some machining classes down at the local community college, and getting a lathe myself.

Roll Tide

[Bent Ramrod]

The Moderators and Owner would, I think, be performing a public service by putting this thread with all the other threads that promised cheap swaging dies before imploding into black holes and taking a lot of customers with them, and all the threads asking "Why do these things cost so much? What vast conspiracy keeps swage die prices so high?" and put them into a Sticky titled "You Get What You Pay For," or something similar. The conspiracy theorists are the natural prey of the swage die scam artists, neither of whom know anything about the difficulties involved in making these critical items. Some people seem to cling to the idea that this stuff gets ground out like sausages by some fantasy CNC Machine armed with some miraculous Carbide Tooling while the diemaker is watching television. The scam artists at least learn how difficult the job really is, and how incapable they are of doing it, but too late to help their customers much.

Anybody can drill a hole in a piece of metal. It is not a swaging die, no matter how cheap it is. Optics are the same way. I can't tell the difference between the lenses on my Chinese spotting scope and a real spotting scope, and both can be dialed in from 20-60 power. So why does the good scope cost ten times what my El Cheapo costs? I could formulate all the foul conspiracies I want to, especially since I know nothing about grinding lenses beyond seeing pictures of grandfatherly types in work overalls polishing pieces of glass. None of this fantasizing, though, explains how I can't see bullet holes at 300 yards with my scope, no matter what the magnification, while I can almost read the NRA official certification on the target with the good one. The phrase "You get what you pay for" explains it perfectly. Bullet swaging dies are at the same level of criticality.

Sorry for all of you who got burned.

[sprinkintime]

Sounds like I am LUCKY he didn't send the product. The only

reason I took the chance was EBay's money back refund policy. Sorry that happened to you midnight. At least you are well out of it anyway, and doing well yourself. I am thinking of taking some machining classes down at the local community college, and getting a lathe myself.

Roll Tide

Roll Tide; the things you can do with a small lathe & mill are unbelievable, if you are young enough I would say go for it. Young is 55 and under.
Sprink

[midnight]

Heck, I was 71 when I got my mill & 72 when I got my lathe. You are never too old. I can make everything I need or want except point form dies and if I wanted to pay for the reamers I could make them too. Never had so much fun.

Bob

[nhrifle]

I've had good luck using my home made D reamers. Three point form dies so far have been cut with them. They are simple to make, and only cost me a few bucks worth of tool steel.

[just bill]

I 've been reading both threads about the " have you heard from" . When I head about the Sheriff I picture Broderick Crawford getting out of his Black and White Packard with mirrored Ray Bans.
Seriously these rip off artist got the game down. I 've dealt with a few vendors and they most all are true suppliers of the stuff that feeds our habit. The trouble is when I can save a couple bucks the little voice starts questions quality vs quantity and doesn't stop until the product is in hand. I've talked to some guys that have dealt with the major players with big banners, fancy flashing ads who screwed them. I have 1 big boy and his supplier on the sh¿¿¿¿ List over a scope. How far do you take a few hundred bucks, when the distributor and supplier both don't answer emails?
Bill

[Theditchman]

I think you just laugh it off and put it down to the cost of living otherwise it will drive you nuts

[jimbull34]

I believe Sean Harvey is John's son...runs in the blood!

[jimbull34]

Update on the court involving John "Gilbert" Harvey. Got a call and letter from the DA on thursday that said that Gilbert/Harvey was trying to make restitution on all the back orders etc. The letter I got, he said that it was "just something he forgot to do"! Right!!!! Anyway, the DA is going to allow me to testify via telephonic at my DA's office here in South Alabama and I would suggest that all who have joined this action call the DA in MI and request that they be allowed to do the same, if it goes to court. I did let him know that he is doing business under other names, either him or his son and the DA said that that just strengthened our case against him. So if you are involved in this action, please call Donnelly in MI and get him to let you testify telephonically if it goes to court so we can get this scam artist out of business once and for all!!!!

I read the above guys who did their own dies and I in fact started doing that about a year ago. Bought a cheap lathe and just started reading and doing. My dies have come out ok for my use and no animal I've shot complained about the points being a little off!!!! or out of just lead!

[jimbull34]

Update for you guys, I got my dies from HG three days ago and a letter from him crying about how tis is going to put him out of business, loose his FFL and his poor family are the ones going to suffer from it all, oh and a jail sentence is a "death" sentence for him...The only thing I can tell him is "don't screw people", you'll actually sleep at night!

[303british.com]

And how were the dies? Properly finished? I guess you haven't had a chance to try them yet.

[GMike]

I just called DA and left Voice mail trying to see if I get phone call back

[jimbull34]

I finally used the dies from HG and as I thought, they are ****. The point forming die immediately stuck and split the brass jacket. Not really polished....the point is really ****. Almost completely flat, the meplate is about 7/8th the dia. of the bullet. Not good for me. Oh well, lesson learned. I am going to try to reform the point forming die into a usable point, ogive, and the other die am using for a sizing die. Its pretty good and is the dia I wanted...

[GMike]

126092Ok so this is whit I got so fair from him no replays or anything. I think he sold me wrong dies for this press too hole is 7/8-14 and ram head is 5/8-24. I still need external punch holder because I never got one from him and I am confused about external punch holder what is holding internal die ?? Her are pictures of stuff I got for him but whole thing is incomplete not working if I put internal punch in a ram it just falls trough and there is no whole in it for a pin. What do I need to do is this !!

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

UP North is Tim. Be careful about your accusations.

[bullet maker 57]

ICH is very correct. Please verify and then double check your information before an innocent person is defamed.

[Theditchman]

I know Tim from UP North and he has had his share of problems getting things delivered but what he has delivered has been top notch...I say Tim is a stand up guy so make sure you know what your saying is true before you throw wild guesses out there

[R.Ph. 380]

U.P. North delivers A#1 Quality. He has had some health issues but is a stand-up guy and delivers what he contracts for and first quality also. J-G Firearms has repeatedly shown shoddy workmanship and greed. Watch who you try to link together.

Bill

[u.p. north]

126092Ok so this is whit I got so fair from him no replays or anything. I think he sold me wrong dies for this press too hole is 7/8-14 and ram head is 5/8-24. I still need external punch holder because I never got one from him and I am confused about external punch holder what is holding internal die ?? Her are pictures of stuff I got for him but whole thing is incomplete not working if I put internal punch in a ram it just falls trough and there is no whole in it for a pin. What do I need to do is this !! And I think john is going under new name U.P.North his screen I think it is him !!

Gmmike,
I sent you a private message.
U.P. North

[GMike]

Sorry guys my bad, sorry up north it was just coincidence that u guys live in same are of the woods. I just don't want more people to get scammed by HG firearms. Once more sorry Up north for a mix up