Range results 4 LR challenge thread

[Hogtamer]

Thought it might be easy to have a thread devoted to the Long Range challenge for results, and here is my first test:

12 ga. Rem. 870 wing master, 24" cyl. bore, 2 3/4" saddle mount scope w/4x magnification. Temp. 35 deg, wind calm, distance 100 measured @ Beaver Dam Range, Edgefield SC. 10" circle shooting from rest. Left target is commercial Remington Slugger, 1 oz @ 1600 fps. as baseline comparison. Right target is my entry. 7/8 oz Lee Drive key in Federal Hull, cheddite 209 primer, 34 grn Longshot, BPI x12x OP wad, WAA12R wad, 2 - 20 ga nitro card, 8 pt crimp. 5 shots each load.
90222
Photos self explanatory, thought I made 5 good trigger pulls on factory loads. If so need to move windage left but did not. Yanked the first shot on my loads I thought, and did as you see (low, right pink circle). My loads (7/8 oz) clearly shoot flatter than factory loads (1oz). Barring the flyer (or bad trigger pull) I got an 8 1/2" group, center to center of holes. I'm leery of this scope set-up as I lowered elevation last time I shot, so that's a variable. It may not be able to handle recoil but more testing will tell. I have new wads (Trap commander) coming this week so will have more results soon. Also plan to load a 23 grn CLAYS load to test with these slugs. Will adjust scope per today's session before shooting again.

[cpileri]

Nice work at 100yds, Hogtamer. I hope this challenge runs long, as it willbe awhile before I make any entries.
C-

[bikerbeans]

Nice work at 100yds, Hogtamer. I hope this challenge runs long, as it willbe awhile before I make any entries.
C-

C-

The LR challenge ended today at 12:14PM, Hogtamer won in a landslide.[smilie=l:

I hope to get out Friday and generate a target or two. I too would like to see this run for a while as good days to shoot this time of year are a bit hard to come by. Plus I have seven dedicated slug guns so it will take me another week just to figure out which ones I want to shoot.

BB

[bikerbeans]

Nice work at 100yds, Hogtamer. I hope this challenge runs long, as it willbe awhile before I make any entries.
C-

C-

The LR challenge ended today at 12:14PM, Hogtamer won in a landslide.[smilie=l:

I hope to get out Friday and generate a target or two. I too would like to see this run for a while as good days to shoot this time of year are a bit hard to come by. Plus I have seven dedicated slug guns so it will take me another week just to figure out which ones I want to shoot.

BB

[Hogtamer]

BB, shoot 'me all, maybe you'll actually hit the target, something I was unable to do today!

[longbow]

Yup, better run a while longer! I may get out this weekend but time is tight lately. After Christmas things should settle down some.

I got lots of slugs to try out, only two guns but lots of slugs.

Yes, this oughta be fun!

Longbow

[Greg5278]

I've been out putting Meat on the Table. No Time for punching Paper yet.
Both My nfather and I killed one Buck each with my Sabot and Brass bullet at 30-35 yards and 70-80 yards.
The bullet Fragmented as designed. I'll see if I can get a Pic to show how destructive it is at only 1700 FPS.
Greg

[cpileri]

Yes, Greg. post the pics!
C-

[Hogtamer]

Test 2 today and I blame it on the full moon! Today I shot loads same as first test but different wads. I used Trap Commander wads with 2 - 16 ga hard cards under 7/8 lee slug, 34 grn Longshot, 209 primer in Fed hulls. These wads are a little longer than the AA12R wads I was loading, so I was able to eliminate the x12x OP wad. Less components is always easier and the fit was PERFECT! The results were a big step down, however. I noticed the recoil was substantially lighter than my first loads with the same powder and the shots were all > 15" lower! The windage was scattered as well. I can only assume that the OP wads I was using in the first load created greater pressure and more velocity. So, although the slug fit the wad, and there was NO damage to the wads (I could have loaded them again) the AA12r wads (that were totally destroyed) over the x12x basewad produced far superior results.
I also shot some of Longbow's .678 Round balls in the same configuration and charge with pretty much the same results, although the windage was tighter with the roundballs! My conclusion is that I will have to up the charge using the Trap Commander wads, perhaps even use a tapered AA hull. Will do that and shoot some through IC choke as well for the next test. Of course, out of slugs now so may be a while. Any thoughts?

[jmort]

My goal is to be able to hit/pattern a paper plate sized target at what ever range. At 100 yards, I would call what you are doing a success, especially with a smooth bore. I can't do what your are doing. Got a new rifled barrel and will see what that can do.

[Hogtamer]

A typical paper plate is 9" so we're after the same goal. I look forward to your posted results with your new barrel @ 100 yds and greater! What kind of sights? My scope is just an accommodation to my 60 yr old eyes. Good open sights are more than adequate for any shotgun range for younger eyes. This challenge is open to ALL comers, so load 'me and shoot 'em!

[bikerbeans]

If the weather man hasn't lied again, it will be in the low 40s in my neck of the woods on Thursday. I plan to take a 12ga, 20ga and 410 to the 100 yard range and see what happens. The 12ga and 410 are capable of good groups any day, but I am not always with the program and get in their way. Lets just say the 20ga hates me and leave it at that. I may take the 24ga and the 10ga as well, although neither are ready for primetime at this point, but ya got to take the good with the bad.


BB

[jmort]

"What kind of sights?"

It has a cantilever so I'm thinking about a Primary Arms red dot or inexpensive 1x to 4x "shotgun scope"

[bikerbeans]

"What kind of sights?"

It has a cantilever so I'm thinking about a Primary Arms red dot or inexpensive 1x to 4x "shotgun scope"

The Simmons 4x32 Prohunter shotgun scope is priced right and a couple of us have had good results with them on heavy recoiling shotguns.

BB

[longbow]

Hah! I was pretty confident I had some good loads and would be posting results here but no go this time!

I had an educational and somewhat disappointing day at the range Sunday. Results are posted in my "New Slugs To Test" thread.

I have some more work to do before I have good enough loads and accuracy for this challenge!

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Calling a mulligan on yesterday's session! Double checked today w/more factory loads and they were also way low and left. Something is wrong with scope so will have to fix that problem before I can resume meaningful tests. Santa, you there?

[jmort]

"Simmons 4x32 Prohunter"

That is one that I was considering. A lot of value.

[bikerbeans]

AAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!


Lots of slugs fired this morning, some apparently went in the general direction of the target! The only cooperative gun, 410 bore, didn't pan out as I pulled two of the five shots and a had 5 inch group. This 410 is fully rifled and capable of < 2" at 100 yards, so I am not happy. I launched five 600g HB slugs with my 12ga USH and put 3 of shots touching at 100 yards and the other 2 shots almost touching, but 12" lower than the other 3 shots!?!?!

My 20ga USH with 1oz fullbore slugs only hit a 10" circle twice out of five shots. I just got this gun and was shooting some slugs I loaded for a different 20ga so maybe there is hope.

I two other slug guns and I don't want to talk about. Too disgusted to take pictures, going back with a friend tomorrow morning and try again.


BB

[littlejack]

BB:
Your 12 gauge groups sound very good, you just need to suck them together. What design/style of slugs were you shooting?
What type of filler wads/wad cup did you use to support your slugs?

I've been getting an education with the hb slugs myself. I am finding out that it is best to provide the most solid base to support and push them.
I am going to dive into loading the Lyman 525 Sabot Slug, with more in depth head scratching.

You probably read the thread I posted about the Lyman "full bore" slugs I received from z375. I was very pleased with my first time results, but I have no more slugs to continue my testing. I did learn from the experience, and information from Longbow and other members.
Regards
Jack

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings, the best kept secret to success with Sabot, slugs or RB is to give it a firm solid base to transmit the driving forces evenly to the edges.
Any time you are using felt filler wad think of it as Ham and you need two slices to make a sandwich, in the same way use two nitro cards on each side to make your
sandwich, that is if possible OP wad , nitro card, felt wad, nitro card and then your Sabot or slug and I would even try two nitro cards right below your full bore slugs.
Wow, that was hard work, I'm broke, no more cents left now.

Beat the 2014 jacked up prices by buying what you will need in the next 2 years like hulls, powder and primer's etc.

Here is what a Dear Friend wrote:
Brian Emerson Capps
A burglar was breaking into a house when he heard
"I see you and Jesus sees you".
He stopped for a moment then continued his crime.
Again "I see you and Jesus sees you" was heard.
The burglar looked all around using his flashlight and finally spotted a parrot.
"Oh, it's only a bird" said the criminal, to which the bird replied
"yes, but Jesus is a Doberman".

Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
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http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings, the best secret to success with Sabot, slugs or RB is to give it a firm solid base to transmit the driving forces evenly to the edges.
Any time you are using felt filler wad think of it as Ham and you need two slices to make a sandwich, in the same way use two nitro cards on each side to make your
sandwich, that is if possible OP wad , nitro card, felt wad, nitro card and then your Sabot or slug and I would even try two nitro cards right below your full bore slugs.

Here is another secret to accuracy:

Use only newer straight walled hulls like Fiocchi to start with knowing they will show pressure signs early-on for safety in development of newer loads.

The newer hulls only cost 9 to 15 cents each and the primer that comes along is worth 3 to 4 cents, the hulls alone cost 5.5 cents to 11 cents.

Once used, use the hulls for buck shots etc or HD loads.

The hull condition has a definite effect on accuracy as the hull weakens the crimp will not be firm enough due to softness.Use newer hulls only for Sabots, slugs or RB loads, the hull condition has a definite effect on accuracy as the hull weakens the crimp will not be firm enough due to softness.

Your 3 inch chambered gun will easily out shoot and prefer 3" shells over the 2.75" and due to the quarter inch jump being eliminated.

Another thing that hurts our load is the OP part of the wad that often fails to properly obturate and the load goes bum in spite of all the efforts in carefully assembling it.

Wow, that was hard work, I'm broke, no more cents left now.

Beat the 2014 jacked up prices by buying what you will need in the next 2 years like hulls, powder and primer's etc.

Here is what a Dear Friend wrote:
Brian Emerson Capps
A burglar was breaking into a house when he heard
"I see you and Jesus sees you".
He stopped for a moment then continued his crime.
Again "I see you and Jesus sees you" was heard.
The burglar looked all around using his flashlight and finally spotted a parrot.
"Oh, it's only a bird" said the criminal, to which the bird replied
"yes, but Jesus is a Doberman".

Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK

[bikerbeans]

LJ,


600g Grain 12ga fullbore (approx. .732") hard cast (heat treated) over (4) 1/8" nitro cards and one gas seal & 44g of BD powder. The last time I shot the gun, I had 3 holes touching just above the bullseye at 60 yards. Now I have two points of impact that are both about 5" to the left of POA and separated vertically by 12 inches. I have shot over a 100 of these HB slugs with good results including a DRT whitetail, so I am thinking I might have an equipment problem. I will check the usual "suspects", loose stock bolt, loose rail, loose rings, broke scope etc.

Ajay,

no soft or spongy wads for me, don't use them don't even have any in my inventory. I would like to be able to load a shotgun slug like I do for cast boolits in my single shot rifles, compressed load of powder and the boolit in the rifling, which, BTW, is how my 410 slugs are loaded. This way I eliminate a lot variables in the wad column and crimp. However, even with 4759, this is enough powder to also eliminate my shoulder in either 12 or 20 ga, hence the gas seals and nitro cards.

Be back at it tomorrow.


BB

[bikerbeans]

LJ,


600g Grain 12ga fullbore (approx. .732") hard cast (heat treated) over (4) 1/8" nitro cards and one gas seal & 44g of BD powder. The last time I shot the gun, I had 3 holes touching just above the bullseye at 60 yards. Now I have two points of impact that are both about 5" to the left of POA and separated vertically by 12 inches. I have shot over a 100 of these HB slugs with good results including a DRT whitetail, so I am thinking I might have an equipment problem. I will check the usual "suspects", loose stock bolt, loose rail, loose rings, broke scope etc.

Ajay,

no soft or spongy wads for me, don't use them don't even have any in my inventory. I would like to be able to load a shotgun slug like I do for cast boolits in my single shot rifles, compressed load of powder and the boolit in the rifling, which, BTW, is how my 410 slugs are loaded. This way I eliminate a lot variables in the wad column and crimp. However, even with 4759, this is enough powder to also eliminate my shoulder in either 12 or 20 ga, hence the gas seals and nitro cards.

Be back at it tomorrow.


BB

[Hogtamer]

BB, that .410 sounds like a great shooter! You know we've all got similar AAAAGGHHHH! stories with the 12 bore. A few random thoughts: what kind of sights? Wonder if we're flinching after a few shots from big recoil? Can a hot barrel have that much effect? Sights on the 20 ga? A bead covers a lot of real estate @ 100 yds. The loads sounds promising. Thanks for the post! With so many working at it I believe we will eventually have a load or 2 that we can say with certainty is superior.

[dverna]

Here is a thought.

Shotgun barrels have almost no mass and will heat up quickly. Depending on how the barrel is mounted, heat expansion may cause a change in POI. Let the barrel cool between shots.

Don Verna

[bikerbeans]

Don,

I don't think I had a barrel heating issue with the 12ga USH. My experience with thin barrels overheating has been to get vertical stringing. With my 12ga USH, I just had two POIs. I will work on this one later.

I shot my 410 again today and another 5 shot 5 inch group @ 100 yards. This would work for deer at that range but not what I want. I did forget my rest and was shooting off a range box but I still should do better. It was a little windy and raining but it was probably just me shooting in a hurry and not maintaining my technique. Pic, I hope, attached.

BB

[longbow]

Very nice shooting bikerbeans!

What sort of slug are you using!

I wish I could get my 12 ga. to group like that. So far I have come close with a couple factory slugs but not with home cast. I have a ways to go yet.

Good shooting!

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

LB,


I am shooting a 44cal lyman devastator HPGC cast from Lyman #2 alloy. This slug is loaded into the old style Winchester compression formed 410 hull. The hull is trimmed to 2.2" and is internally necked reamed to accept the .430" boolit. The boolit is loaded without a crimp with the boolit sticking out of the case to just touch the rifling. I did the chamber myself with a couple of different hand reamers. The barrel slugged at 0.4295" and is a 1:38 twist. FWIW, the spec on a 410 barrel is .41" plus .02" so basically .41 to .43 inches qualifies so this is a 410 bore. Gun was built to comply with Ohio DNRs whitetail hunting regs which allow any gauge/bore shot gun from 10ga to .410 bore.

If I built another one I would use a .410 rifled barrel to eliminate the neck reaming of the 410 hulls which is a PIA.


BB

[bikerbeans]

LB,


I am shooting a 44cal lyman devastator HPGC cast from Lyman #2 alloy. This slug is loaded into the old style Winchester compression formed 410 hull. The hull is trimmed to 2.2" and is internally necked reamed to accept the .430" boolit. The boolit is loaded without a crimp with the boolit sticking out of the case to just touch the rifling. I did the chamber myself with a couple of different hand reamers. The barrel slugged at 0.4295" and is a 1:38 twist. FWIW, the spec on a 410 barrel is .41" plus .02" so basically .41 to .43 inches qualifies so this is a 410 bore. Gun was built to comply with Ohio DNRs whitetail hunting regs which allow any gauge/bore shot gun from 10ga to .410 bore.

If I built another one I would use a .410 rifled barrel to eliminate the neck reaming of the 410 hulls which is a PIA.


BB

[longbow]

Aaaahhh! That explains a bit. I was wondering if you were using Brennekes or something. That is some mighty fine shooting for a shotgun. I dream of groups like that at 100 yards but I am using 12 ga. smoothbore so a dream it remains! At least so far.

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

Couple of more targets, 12ga this time.


BB

[jmort]

I use paper plates as well. That is a good 100 yard group.

[Hogtamer]

Outstanding!!! Those are full bore foster slugs out of rifled USH? You must have found problem with scope. BB, those look like great loads. Thanks for sharing!

[SuperBlazingSabots]

I'm happy for you Brother BikerBeans, you can help improve on it now, you are in for a good start.

Please describe your load in details so we all can understand it!
1. What was the recoil like.
2. How does the primer look.
3. What brand hull's were used etc.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

A burglar was breaking into a house when he heard
"I see you and Jesus sees you".
He stopped for a moment then continued his crime.
Again "I see you and Jesus sees you" was heard.
The burglar looked all around using his flashlight and finally spotted a parrot.
"Oh, it's only a bird" said the criminal, to which the bird replied
"yes, but Jesus is a Doberman".

I got 4 birds and I love them all.

Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK

[bikerbeans]

Ajay,

Load #1

3" BPI primed hull - primer looked normal after shooting
80g I4759
(1) BPI gas seal, the reversible one, I forget the name
(3) .125" nitro cards
600 g Fullbore hollow base slugs, approx. .732" diameter
rolled crimped with a BPI steel roll crimper in my drill press
no chrony, yet

Load#2
2.75" Winchester AA hull, low brass. These are trap hulls that have been shot many times
209A primer
44g Blue Dot
(1) W-W universal cup wad, these are tapered and fit nicely in the tapered part of the W-W hull
(4) .125" nitro cards
same HB slugs and roll crimped as above.
no chrony, but for comparison they are faster than a 1 3/16 Remington Copper solid 3".



Both loads shot in a H&R 12ga USH hunter. I replaced the simmons 4X with a 3x9x40 Leupold Rifleman MZ/SG scope with heavy duplex recticle. Gun weighs around 10 pounds the recoil with 44g of blue dot is not too bad. Fairly heavy recoil with the 80g I4759. I have shot this slug with 85g of I4759 and that will get your attention.

Will keep working on this, as I really want groups <3" @ 100 yards.


BB

[littlejack]

Bb:
Those are nice groups for 100 yards. Good to see/hear that your new slug is doing so well.
I haven't looked it up, but is the "W-W Universal cup" a full wad per say? That is to say, does it have the powder seal, cushion section, and the cup? If so, how does the "full bore" slug fit into the wad cup?
It looks as though you are debunking the idea that a filled (hot glue) base cavity is needed to prevent the wad from being pushed into said cavity, and preventing good accuracy. Thanks for sharing your results.
Regards
Jack

[bikerbeans]

Bb:
Those are nice groups for 100 yards. Good to see/hear that your new slug is doing so well.
I haven't looked it up, but is the "W-W Universal cup" a full wad per say? That is to say, does it have the powder seal, cushion section, and the cup? If so, how does the "full bore" slug fit into the wad cup?
It looks as though you are debunking the idea that a filled (hot glue) base cavity is needed to prevent the wad from being pushed into said cavity, and preventing good accuracy. Thanks for sharing your results.
Regards
Jack

Jack,

The slugs I have are hard cast and heat treated so that probably explains why no HB failures.

The universal cup wad is something that best I can tell is not longer made. In fact, I am not sure if I am using them correctly, but they do work in a tapered hull. The wad has a cup on one side that I place facing the powder and the other side is flat. The sides of this wad are tapered towards the cup end and they seem to match the profile of the inside of the tapered portion of a Win hull. The total wad length is about 3/8 or 5/16 of and inch, no compression zone. I got a box of these from a friend and am trying to find more but no luck, which is why I am working with the BPI components as well.

thanks


BB

[littlejack]

Bb:
Thanks for the info. The wads you described, are ones I would like to try in my Lyman Sabot Slug loads. To bad they are not available.
Jack

[Hogtamer]

BB, those BPI x12x OP wads don't work well in the tapered AA hulls. Just right in Federals though. Again, outstanding results!

[bikerbeans]

BB, those BPI x12x OP wads don't work well in the tapered AA hulls. Just right in Federals though. Again, outstanding results!

Hogtamer,

I am just using the BPI x12x OPs in the straight wall BPI hulls. I also found out the hard way that the tapered universal cup wads do not work well in the straight hulls.

BB

[bikerbeans]

Thread is getting cold, needs a bump. Friday is forecast to be about freezing and not much wind. I have the slugs ready, now to see if I really want to walk through a foot of slush at the range. We had about 12 to 13 inches of snow in less than a week and most it is still here. I ain't complaining as we haven't had it near as bad as a lot folks.


BB

[Hogtamer]

where do u live BB? i'm outta slugs for the moment and harmd cards, back in aion soon....

[longbow]

I am hoping to get out and do some shooting next week. Maybe this time I will hit something and have a target worth posting!

[bikerbeans]

where do u live BB? i'm outta slugs for the moment and harmd cards, back in aion soon....

NW Ohio. Snow usually misses us, didn't this time. Heading out to the barn to check on my wife's horses (around zero F), anybody want a Paso Fino?

BB

[mroliver77]

What do they taste like? lol



NW Ohio. Snow usually misses us, didn't this time. Heading out to the barn to check on my wife's horses (around zero F), anybody want a Paso Fino?

BB

[Greg5278]

Why mess around with Tapered Hulls at all for Slug loading? The straight hall ones are easier, and more forgiving.
I use Fiocchi, and Federal .090" base hulls. The federal ones are my Favorite, but damn expensive I wish they would reduce the price. They could seaily compete with Fiocchi, if they would change the way they do Business. I seem to recall Years ago that Federal believed that making Reloading Components available hurt their ammo Business.

The X12X is a relaible gas seal, and better than the BPGS. The BPGS can fail in loads with some Wad Columns. I quit using it years ago. The OB12 is also a good seal, bit is smaller in Diameter, and can allow some Powder migration if carrried alot.

80 Gr of IMR 4759 sounds awfully Hot to me. My Data shows 64.0Gr to provide 1555FPS with a 615Gr hard cast HB Slug.
I'd be guessing you are in the 14-15K PSI range, but can't be sure. Maybe have Tom Pressure Test it in the Spring?
The BC on the slug is pretty Low, probably around .10 so pushing it faster isn't going to flatten the Trajectory appreciably.
My Load would give you a Headache after a few rounds in a 7.5# Gun. I put a 1# Mercury Reducer in the Stock to Tame it.
It was fired in a 2 3/4" JC Higgins pump action. The Bore has plenty of machining marks and is fully threaded to the Receiver. It will shoot jusy about any hollow base Slug, Factory or otherwise into 2" or less at 50 yards. I've not tried it futher at Paper. It wears a Lyman Peep sight with the Aperatur unscrewed for faster target Acquisition. Haven't hunted with it in Years, but did get a nice old 9Pt with it some Years ago.

Perhaps we could comvince Accurate Molds to make an improved full Bore HB Mold for Forum Members? We could collectively develop Loading Data to go with it.
Greg AKA 12 Bore

[bikerbeans]

What do they taste like? lol


Chicken.

BB

[Carryacolt]

I like cats....I just can't eat a whole one by myself!!

[Hogtamer]

First trip to range with lee 7/8oz slugs i cast myself. That process was much easier than I expected and all but a handful of the 75 or so that I cast were great, right @ 380 grns! Last trip to the range was awful, thought scope was the problem. But i was using new wads, the trap commanders from BPI. They are a perfect fit and could use them again after shooting. But here are 2 things I KNOW after my tests: 1) my load in federal 2 3/4 hulls with 34 - 36 grns Longshot, BPI OP wad, AA - 12 red wads w/2 - 1/8" 20 ga nitro card in wad and pure lead slugs will put 5 shots in my cap @ 100 yds. even though the wads are totally destroyed. 2) the same charge except using the perfectly fitting Trap Commander wads (no separate OP wad) w/2 - 16 ga cards won't put 5 shots in a washtub! But hey, the wads look good before and after! What I DON'T KNOW is why!!! I've got a few of the old wads left that I'll load and shoot tomorrow just to verify. Meanwhile, anybody got a clue? AJ's old thread has got all the pics of the various components to compare if you care to. (added: just remembered I'm out of OP wads, will have to cut base off some wads to replace.) Oh, did I tell you I'm a boolit caster now??:drinks:

[pipehand]

First trip to range with lee 7/8oz slugs i cast myself. That process was much easier than I expected and all but a handful of the 75 or so that I cast were great, right @ 380 grns! Last trip to the range was awful, thought scope was the problem. But i was using new wads, the trap commanders from BPI. They are a perfect fit and could use them again after shooting. But here are 2 things I KNOW after my tests: 1) my load in federal 2 3/4 hulls with 34 - 36 grns Longshot, BPI OP wad, AA - 12 red wads w/2 - 1/8" 20 ga nitro card in wad and pure lead slugs will put 5 shots in my cap @ 100 yds. even though the wads are totally destroyed. 2) the same charge except using the perfectly fitting Trap Commander wads (no separate OP wad) w/2 - 16 ga cards won't put 5 shots in a washtub! But hey, the wads look good before and after! What I DON'T KNOW is why!!! I've got a few of the old wads left that I'll load and shoot tomorrow just to verify. Meanwhile, anybody got a clue? AJ's old thread has got all the pics of the various components to compare if you care to. (added: just remembered I'm out of OP wads, will have to cut base off some wads to replace.) Oh, did I tell you I'm a boolit caster now??:drinks:

Hogtamer, congrats on taking the plunge into casting. Didn't those first few home poured slugs give you a warm fuzzy feeling of independence and self sufficiency?

Good to know about the Trap commander wads. I have considered using them in a rifled barrel
, which I think was Ajay's application for them.

[cpileri]

Now that deer season is over, i will have something to share soon: 12ga 3.5" brass hull loads, and some 20ga loads. it will be "test 6" in the series.

C-

[Hogtamer]

pipehand, my thoughts were that the trap commanders would be perfect for this load in a RIFLED barrel as the fit is so good. got a buddy with one and i'll try to find out for you?

[Hogtamer]

back to the range....i was pretty disgusted last time but the wind was gusting up to 30mph. Loaded a few more today, 1/2 w/ 36 grns longshot, 2 - 20 ga hard cards (instead of 16s) in the trap commander wads. just for kicks shot 3 each out of fixed full choke and didn't put even 1 in the 10" circle. got that out of my system and changed to cylinder bore. 1st 3 shots (in orange) were the 36 grns LSHT. Notice that they "climb the ladder". My gun does this every time! even though it was 32 degrees and the shots were about 30 seconds apart. The next 4 shots(in black) were the 34 grns Longshot. again, a bit of ladder climbing but 2 slugs in virtually same hole. one thing that surprises me a bit is that these loads shoot the 7/8 slugs virtually flat @ 100 vs 50 yds. i don't know if i can tweak these loads for a little better grouping or this is it. this is shooting off hood of truck on some jackets and i use the term " range" advisedly! down in the pasture near the house. Maybe off a lead sled next time and a rifled gun to boot...
94340

[bikerbeans]

ht,

If you have the same POI at 50 and 100 yards, try shooting them at 75 yards. The slugs are probably still rising at 50 yards and are dropping at 100 yards, with a high point of trajectory between those two ranges.

BB

[bikerbeans]

Your "climb the ladder" group, if it was a centerfire bottleneck cartridge might be from barrel heating, with a slug gun probably be something else. I have had H&R single shot slug guns and MZs, and 45-70s vertically string and sometimes it has been due to the stock being a bit loose. Scopes, rings and rails can also the problem.

BB

[Cap'n Morgan]

If the barrel has a pillar rib - like Remington barrels - it will cause the barrel to bend upwards as the barrel elongates due to the heat.

[bikerbeans]

BTT. Forecast is for 40s and 50s next week in NW Ohio so hopefully I can make it to the 100 yard range. Gonna take the 10ga Pardner, 20ga USH and maybe the 24ga H&R if I can get enough rounds put together this weekend.

BB

[bikerbeans]

I hate this winter!

BB

[Hogtamer]

I should have a rifled gun soon BB and plan to really give you something to gripe about!

[bikerbeans]

I should have a rifled gun soon BB and plan to really give you something to gripe about!

Maybe not, Ohio is getting ready to legalize straight wall rifle cartridges for deer, so it will be hard to bug me this year.[smilie=1: In the woods this fall with my Marlin 444S, now what to shoot with all these dedicated slug guns? Wait, I know, tannerite.:shock:

Hog, what type of spin imparting scatter gun you getting? I know cplieri just picked up up a 20ga USH, I have a feeling you fellow's targets are gonna make me feel bad.

BB

[cpileri]

I promise to test it soon. Just rained again today, after teasing me with nice weather.
Soon.
C-

[Hogtamer]

express 870 - don't know the rifling yet.

[longbow]

I still haven't made it our with the new slugs yet either. Winter is dragging on. I do shoot in some pretty cold weather but lately things have been getting in the way and the weather doesn't help. We hardly had any snow over Christmas and now we are getting regular heavy snowfalls and unseasonably cold weather.

Hogtamer:

If that Remington 870 is "standard" it should have a 1:36" twist IIRC. Seems fast for round ball but I got some very good groups of 2" +/- a bit at 50 yards with a borrowed 870 Express with rifled barrel. I didn't shoot at 100 yards because I had been shooting my Marlin .44 mag. off the bench with tout loads and that light little gun kicks a bit then I shot 30 rounds of 12 ga. 0.735" balls off the bench at 50 yards and by that time I was beat silly so gave it up. Still got pretty good groups out of that rifled barrel. I recovered a ball and the rifling was very good with no sign of stripping or skidding. 38 grs. of Blue Dot under a 580 gr. ball was a bit more fun than I was prepared for.

If I ever do get a rifled gun I will likely use the 0.735" round balls. Good weight, easy to cast, easy to load, shoot well. I like 'em anyway, even out of my smoothbore.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Good to hear from you Kent....thought you mifht be snowed under! Good arrow making weather though!

[longbow]

Yeah, we didn't get a lot of snow this winter until recently then got dumped on. It has been cold though. We were running into -18 degrees C for a while and still around -5 to -10. The weird and unpredictable weather has kept me away from the range (at least it is part of the reason) and yes, I should be making arrows for our upcoming spring shoot in April.

I always seem to run on the ragged edge ~ nothing gets done until it is a crisis and has to be done. I just get too wrapped up in too many things! That and sometimes procrastination is my middle name.

I'll get slug testing and arrow making done... well, soon.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

BLAST! Going the wrong way! Made it to the range with new 870 express, rifled barrel w/red dot sight. Bottom line was minute of trash can @ 100 yds with 3 loads: all straight wall hulls, 209 cheddite primers. 1) 23 gr CLAYS, trap commamder wad, 1-20 ga nitro card, 1-16 ga card, lee 7/8 slug from COWW. 2) 34 gr Longshot. 3) 37 gr Longshot, helix cushion driver #18 wad, same cards. All these are perfect fit but wads mostly mangled! I was getting cap-size groups w/32 grn Longshot, WW12 r wads, 2 - 20 ga hard cards out of smoothbore, so this is certainly not what I was expecting. Strangely enough I gave a friend who has a custom heavy barrel bolt rifled gun some of the light Clays loads last week. He shoots Hornady sabots and snuff can (his preferred target) groups @ 150 yds with high dollar scope. My slugs out of his gun shot a 1 1/2 bore group (basically 1 hole) @ 100 yds. but 12 " low from his sight - in and he brought me the target. I am pretty disgusted with this result as you might imagine. The good news is that the crappie are biting so somebody keep me from using this gun for a boat anchor!

[longbow]

Hogtamer:

What did the wads look like? Perfect fit for smoothbore might not translate to perfect fit in rifled gun. Could be you are either cutting up petals with rifling or maybe not enough grip to slug so not picking up the spin (a bit loose).

If the petals are cut up then the fit is probably too tight. If the petals don't show deep rifling then probably too loose.

I have little experience with rifled bores though. My one and only shooting session with a rifled 870 went pretty well using 0.735" RB's over 36 grs. of Blue Dot. Even after having been recoiled to a dumber (and number) point than I am already at, I managed several groups of 2"+/- a bit at 50 yards. I was pretty impressed but made a mental note to take some shoulder padding next time ~ that gun was light and it hurt!

Recovered balls showed nice rifling.

I am currently building a "rifling bench" mini style for rifling home made choke tubes to my "secret spec". They will make me famous I am sure!

Anyway, I will likely get a lesson about wads and rifling when I am done (I am tired of "lessons" I just want to hit the target!).

So, before using a nice gun as a boat anchor, you should try some bore size balls or slugs and see how they do. If they do well, you know it is a wad issue causing you grief now.

Longbow

[bikerbeans]

hogtamer,

If you want to try some fullbore slugs in your 870 rifled barrel PM me your address and I will send you some. My results with fullbore slugs in rifled barrels have been much better than my attempts to use shotcup wads for sabots.

Another thing, I have had some of my worst range sessions with Red Dots. I have blown up many of them shooting heavy recoiling rifles, shotguns and pistols. Maybe check you mounts, rings etc. and try different optics?

BB

[Hogtamer]

OK, put a good scope on gun and back to range...UGLY! Even worked up a 2 - 600 ball load in a thick multimetal wad that looked good on paper but my barrel made mulch of the the wads, not even recognizable. So, i have a serviceable smooth bore load @ 100 yds and abmysmal 50 yd loads @ 50 yds from rifled loads. Apparently bore is much tighter on rifled barrel. So how do full bore loads work that won't hoplessly lead the rifling? Thinking about Hubel's sabots w/575 Minie but gun shy about spending additional $$$ now...