cast Boolits , I mean Buckshot

[boca]

90200Hi Guys
Just came back from some pig hunting . I had my pump 308 and my 12ga/ .308 combo for work of the bike. I load the 3 inch shells with 18 x 1 buck pellets , each pellet is #2 alloy and weighs about 40gr velocity is about 1150 fps.
The pictures show how much abuse the pellets get just from barrel scrub and contact in the barrel . They are damaged less by contact with target.
The picture of the pig with the knife shows the travel of pellets, I removed 3 pellets from this pig found on the other side of the impact. The other 2 pellets from another pig all in all we shot 39 pigs . The hand cast load , I find patterns much tighter than standard swagged pellets, which deform much much more opening up patterns9019590196901979019890199

[fivegunner]

Nice pictures, could I ask how you carry you gun on your bike??? and what state do you live? I sure wish we had a hog problem here in Michigan, I love hunting hogs.:cbpour:

[boca]

Hi
I used to carry my gun on my shoulder. After hrs on the saddle it starts to hurt. For the past few years I have used a cradle on the bikes handle bars which works well. I am a long way from Michigan

[desteve811]

Australia is my guess :)

[RugerFan]

Australia is my guess :)

I was thinking the same.

Very cool! I have loaded some buckshot I cast, but haven't had a chance to kill anything yet.

[runfiverun]

I killed a couple of freezers and a fridge with my load using 2.5-3% antimony, pushed at about 1200 fps.
penetration was 100% ,,well about 99.9% I did find 3-4 pellets after firing 100 rounds in testing.
after casting I put about 5 pounds at a time in the tumbler and squirt them with a wiff of graphite, letting them run for about an hour and a half.
this rounds off the nibs a bit and helps get them through the choke a bit better.

[Brad Phillips]

39 pigs, that is a lot of shooting!

[boca]

39 pigs, that is a lot of shooting! alot of riding for them. The combo 12ga / .308 works well of the bike . Took a while to remember which trigger did what . I pulled of some good shots on running pigs and the .308 and some dusty shots on pigs out at 120m with the 12ga. But I now know which is which .
Yep Australia , pigs are a problem down here from taking lambs to spreading disease they cause problems. How bad a problem are the pigs in the states? I would be interested to Know

[runfiverun]

well there's a saying in texas about there are two types of landowners there, the ones that have hog's and the ones that are gonna have them soon nuff' for sure.
from what I hear all but two states have wild pigs now.

[boca]

That interesting runfive. They have been a problem here for a long time there numbers build in good seasons, By that I mean good rains good crops . When the drought hits they become more adventures and become to mass close to food and water I have shot 30 to 35 per
day when in the first few years of a drought . In the middle of a drought I would be lucky to shot 1-3 a week . As soon as the conditions are right good rains bumper crops whinin a year or 2 the numbers start to rise again.
Have The pigs always been a problem or are they becoming more of a problem?

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I like the 2 wheeler. That is the way to get about and chase up unwanted vermin.
Going to have to seriously work with buckshot. Never have beyond the idea of "repel boarders".
That firearm with the 12 guage and caliber.308 would be a dandy. Up close and far well covered.
Thanks for the write up ! No pigs in our deserts...
Mike in Peru

[Gunnut 45/454]

boca
So why don't you use a shot wad in your buck loads? I use WAA12 white for mine- no barrel scrub on my buck loads. Good for both 3" and 2 3/4".

[bandit7.5]

I live just off the Eglin A F Base bombing range and the cross breed hogs here have wrecked 3/4ton trucks in accidents. Hogs in northwest Florida are the only game that will hunt you back and eat you if they get you. Its year round shooting on ferral hogs.

[boca]

boca
So why don't you use a shot wad in your buck loads? I use WAA12 white for mine- no barrel scrub on my buck loads. Good for both 3" and 2 3/4".
I do use wads with the buck loads I use wads for steel shot stronger than the lead load wads. Its amazing how much the pellets get damaged.

[boca]

I live just off the Eglin A F Base bombing range and the cross breed hogs here have wrecked 3/4ton trucks in accidents. Hogs in northwest Florida are the only game that will hunt you back and eat you if they get you. Its year round shooting on ferral hogs.

Hi
Feral pigs are very smart ,many have charged me and am shaw if I was knocked over they would maul me also . Yep,there are nuggets of an animal There shoulders are armour plated and when wallow in mud can deflect smaller projectiles. Its amazing the different climates and regions that pigs feel at home in. Whats the landscape there in eglin bandit ?

[RMc]

Boca,

From your pictures, it appears the damage is from compression against other pellets in choke passage. I would surmise from damage pattern the pellets are stacked in layers of three inside the steel shot type wads you mentioned. If so you may want to look at these threads for some pressure tested tight patterning .30" and .60", (yes .60"), buckshot loading alternatives!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?224028-High-performance-buckshot-revisited

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?221578-Official-Tri-Ball-loading-sequence/page2

[boca]

Hi RMC thanks for the links I will read them fully later.
I had worked on these loads a few years ago and my patterns on average where 11 inches at 30 m with all .31 pellets . James from dixie slugs was very help full in supplying me with useful information on this load . 91412 I also did some work with some other friends with a .60 tri ball load, we did not have much success and the project was shelved, The problem was that the bottom ball had trouble separating from the wad ( This may be that we didn't have any mica to lube the wad.) You have to remember that here in Australia we are limited in the supply of shooting products, and it was the reason that I tried to get a tight patterning load was to be close to the pattern of a flight control wad load, that alas we can not get here.
I can see from the pellets that most of the deformation is from set back and barrel scrub . I would be interested in others who have retrieved buckshot pellets to compare. I may start to use buffer again, But didnt see to much change in pattern size to bother . I didn't look at evenness though
regards boca
Boca,

From your pictures, it appears the damage is from compression against other pellets in choke passage. I would surmise from damage pattern the pellets are stacked in layers of three inside the steel shot type wads you mentioned. If so you may want to look at these threads for some pressure tested tight patterning .30" and .60", (yes .60"), buckshot loading alternatives!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?224028-High-performance-buckshot-revisited

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?221578-Official-Tri-Ball-loading-sequence/page2

[RMc]

Hi RMC thanks for the links I will read them fully later.
I had worked on these loads a few years ago and my patterns on average where 11 inches at 30 m with all .31 pellets . James from dixie slugs was very help full in supplying me with useful information on this load . 91412 I also did some work with some other friends with a .60 tri ball load, we did not have much success and the project was shelved, The problem was that the bottom ball had trouble separating from the wad ( This may be that we didn't have any mica to lube the wad.) You have to remember that here in Australia we are limited in the supply of shooting products, and it was the reason that I tried to get a tight patterning load was to be close to the pattern of a flight control wad load, that alas we can not get here.
I can see from the pellets that most of the deformation is from set back and barrel scrub . I would be interested in others who have retrieved buckshot pellets to compare. I may start to use buffer again, But didnt see to much change in pattern size to bother . I didn't look at evenness though
regards boca

I have done extensive product testing for James Gates and the loads I discussed in the thread links are his original developments - posted in the shotgun section of this site. I suspect you are using one of the LBC (limited bore contact) wads with your .31" buckshot loads - indeed with excellent pattern results. The subtle differences in pattern with spherical buffer and Mica have as much to do with pellet lubricity as anything. This allows the pellets to "flow" through choke constriction with a reduction in friction binding against each other. A two pellet per layer stack pattern that gives the pellets "room to move" is a major part of the picture as well. If your cast buckshot have sufficient antimony content in the lead alloy used, you might also consider heat treating the pellets to a higher hardness level to resist both in bore and impact deformation.

Ralph

[boca]

Thanks Ralph
I have printed of the links and shall read them over the xmas break . I suspect that the load I used on the pigs may have been some old loads with some red win 1 1/2 wads . I will investigate as I still have a few shells in the holder . I ran out of tps wads and took these just in case I didn't have enough. This may answer the severity of the deformation, which was a little more than I thought .
I am using a ported 2xfull choke and noticed this gives me the tightest patterns rather than the cyl, im etc. I noticed that the porting on the wad gave it a shuttle cock feature which may help on even separation from the shot column?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

would a normal full choke, damaging the pellets less, actually create a better, tighter, or both, pattern?

[GEOMETRIC]

Hi all,
Yes, wild pigs are pretty much everywhere. Years ago I was married to a French Canadian & was invited on a wild hog hunt in Canada by some Canadian folks I met. Snow pigs I guess.
To paraphrase a country singer, I was hunting wild hogs before hunting hogs was cool. I have spent a lifetime hunting deer & wild hogs with buckshot & bullets I cast myself.
Ralph, I never got to know James as well as you but from the limited contact I had with him I know he was a true gentleman and an innovator of shotgun ammo. I know that the hunting & reloading world that was exposed to him truly regrets his passing.
Years ago, I experimented with loading two lead balls near bore size in my 10 ga. SXS. The two balls would land near each other (typically about 3 or 4 inches apart) at 60 yds. That load would likely take out most any dangerous game animal but I never used it on game as it was not practical for most of my hunting. Boca, I envy your .308/ 12 ga. combo gun. I would love to have that gun. I would use the .308 on hogs as a first choice & load something like James's triball load in the shotgun barrel for up close & personal when things get a bit sticky, as our British friends might say. I once worked on a survey of a 28,000 acre WMA that was filthy with wild hogs. It was mostly under water & you were as likely to meet a beaver as a hog. You could hear them jarring with each other yards away but I never saw one while surveying. I talked to one of the Game wardens that had a really nice specimen mounted in the lodge. It was not a particularly big hog but it had about 4" tusks. I took a pic of it, maybe I will post it one day. The warden told me that they will normally avoid human contact but "they will run you if you surprise them".
I did quite a lot of patterning when I was younger. I would go shoot a couple patterns before it got dark after work at least 2 or three times a week & that went on for a number of years. I also patterned duck loads but buckshot comprised a large percentage. There are a number of things I have come to believe. I had buckshot patterns from my 10 ga. that would place almost all of a load of "OOO" buck close enough that you could cover them with one hand at 60 yds. There are a number of reasons buckshot is not effective at extended range. First, it rapidly looses velocity & energy. Next, the main advantage of any multi-pellet load is it produces a pattern so you can hit fast moving game. Trying to make a rifle out of it is defeating the purpose. The main advantage of loads like the triball is not so much that they extend range, but that they are effective on big, tough critters.
I don't know how many times I have seen even small hogs absorb numerous hits with buckshot without going down. Deer, yes, but I will never hunt hogs with buckshot as even "ooo" pellets lack the penetration needed. I hunted hogs & deer with a .30-30 loaded with cast bullets for a number of years. I was amazed at some of the instant kills I made & they were killing much faster than jacketed soft points. I was thinking, this shouldn't be happening, jacketed soft points should kill better. Then I figured out what was going on. The bullets were cast from hard wheel weight alloy & they were fracturing or blowing up so to speak. Not good, penetration would have been very badly compromised had they hit anything hard. Watch your alloy!
Well, tough game can be hard to take down with anything & even a .45-70 has failed to drop them in their tracks at times. The guy that said bullet placement trumps power knows what he was talking about but in the real world in heavy cover, shooting at a fast moving target in low light, that is easier said than done!

[dbosman]

Your wish has been granted. Not nearly as well as the Texan who wished for pigs.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12145_55230-230062--,00.html


I sure wish we had a hog problem here in Michigan, I love hunting hogs.:cbpour:

[Texas by God]

I saw my first feral hog in 1974 while spotlighting for coyotes. My brother had the Q-Beam on it and my 22-250's crosshair was locked on her ear hole. My brother said "don't shoot it belongs to someone." Dumb little brother(me) listened to dumber older brother(him); now look what's happened. I should have channeled Barney Fife and "Nipped it!"
Thomas

[pls1911]

The OP BOCA made a comment which bears repeating:

Cast slugs group much better than factory buckshot.
Per a post I made some time back, my load is 8 pellets, 2 per layer at 90* from the previous layer inside a shotwad loaded in a 2-3/4" hull and a normal crimp.
It doesn't seem to matter if there's an over shot card or poly buffer added or omitted. Rounds generally group inside of 6" at 30 yards from a cylinder bore 20" slug barrel.
210813

[trapper9260]

Where I am there is no wild hogs or free range hogs. I was told there was at one time and they where clean out when found.I like read this post and learn something on it of how hard to cast the buck shot. thank you

[RMc]

would a normal full choke, damaging the pellets less, actually create a better, tighter, or both, pattern?

I overlooked this earlier, so to answer the question:

Yes, hard cast and even heat treated hard cast pellets, when combined with a pellet stack that allows the pellets to flow rather than compress radially in the choke constriction, full choke shotguns will usually pattern tighter. Such additions as mica, sperical buffer, shot wrappers and shot cups, all have the potential to add pellet protection from bore scrub and add lubricity to enhance buckshot patterning though the tight choked smoothbore.