Ultra Quiet 30-30 Loads

[oldtrucks]

I was reading through some old reloading manuals and found some information on quiet loads for 44 mag in lever guns. I'm going to give it a try with my 30-30 using some fast powder and a 170 gr lead boolit with some dacron filler.

I have some 231, Super Target, as well as some Unique to start with. Has anyone tried this and if so what powders and how much powder did you try?

[helice]

Welcome aboard Old trucks.
There is a good deal of inform at www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
He did a great study of the 30-30 using the 170 gr. plain base. IIRC he used W231 in his testing. These results may be a bit faster than you want but it gives you a starting place. There are a number of posts here at Cast Boolits of men getting down to 4oo-5oo f/s with Bullseye or Red Dot.
Again, Welcome.

[Outpost75]

Try 5 grains of Unique. It is close to what you want. Standard large rifle primers. No filler is needed.

You could also try 4 grs. of WST or 3 grains of Bullseye.

[Nobade]

Cast your boolits from pure lead or as soft as you can get your hands on, to help seal and avoid sticking one in the bore. Use the 231 or WST, and keep going lighter until they barely clear the muzzle. Then work up from there until it does what you want.

-Nobade

[oldtrucks]

Thanks Helice, that had some good information. It looks like they had good luck with the VVN350, I have some of that so I may add that into the trial and testing.

Outpost the information I've read recommends the dacron, said that it keeps the powder in contact with the primer and gave more consistent velocity. Seemed to make sense, especially with the longer 30-30 case and small charges. I'll try it both ways and see if it alters the velocity at all.

Nobade I'll give that a try. I have some of the Lymans Super Moly that I was going to add to a few boolits too. Once I get to the point where I think I'm close to sticking one the Moly may get me just a bit slower and quieter

[jh45gun]

I never use fillers for anything I and others do not believe in them. Others do that is their choice. Did not like the stories on the ringing of the barrels.

[Larry Gibson]

I do believe in fillers (Dacron anyway) but suggest you do not use a filler for your proposed loads. I also suggest the 231 and WST as the best powders. Cast the bullets soft, really soft like with COWWs + lead at 50/50 or 20-1, 30-1 or 40-1 lead tin. I prefer to use GCs but they are an option here depending on accuracy wanted. Start at 5.5 gr with either powder and work down until you get the desired noise level (never will be "silent") and velocity you want. That starting load will give you around 1000 - 1100 fps to begin with. If shooting beyond 15 - 20 yards sufficient sight adjustment can become an issue.

Always double check to make sure the bullet has left the barrel after each shot as you lower the powder charge. You can go low enough to leave a bullet stuck in the barrel.

Larry Gibson

[gnoahhh]

And for pete's sake don't substitute jacketed bullets for lead ones down in those low velocities! Bullets stuck in the bore aren't fun to get out after trying that trick. Ask me how I know...

[gnoahhh]

And for pete's sake don't substitute jacketed bullets for lead ones down in those low velocities! Bullets stuck in the bore aren't fun to get out after trying that trick. Ask me how I know...

[ebner glocken]

A load with a 170-180 over 8 grains of red dot has worked well for me in a 30/30. It's pretty quiet and will give you somewhere between 1100 and 1200 FPS. No filler required for this load. NRA 50/50 works fine for lube. I think of the ballistics of a heavy 357 shot from a 6" bbl.

As far as the use of fillers it depends on my desired results. So far I haven't rung a chamber yet. btw it's a bad idea walking around residential neighborhoods knocking on doors asking "so, do you believe in fillers ringing your chamber?". My survey found: 1. Nobody believed in fillers. 2. Wife has no sense of humor when called by you from the police station.

Ebner

[spoon]

What is the thought on using Trail Boss?

[Salmoneye]

I never use fillers for anything I and others do not believe in them. Others do that is their choice. Did not like the stories on the ringing of the barrels.

I do not use fillers either...

.309 165gr boolit over 5 grains of Red Dot is quiet and accurate in my old Marlin 1893...

[shooting on a shoestring]

Oldtrucks....
I've loaded 1.5 grs. Bullseye and a 0.315 Round Ball with polyfil between the two. Sounds like slamming the door on a Ford. Kills skunks in my front yard. Very dirty but very quiet. Velocity all over the place between 400 and 500 fps.

If you want real quiet, keep your powder charge light and fast enough that when the gas exits the barrel, the gas velocity is less than the speed of sound.

[rintinglen]

I have a 311-245 90 grain mold that works well over 3.0 grains of Bullseye up close--out beyond 15 yards, getting the sights and the point of impact to align become problematic. At 10 paces, though, it's a peach. I have also loaded some Single Ought Buckshot over the same charge, but had more fliers. These are great loads for letting the grand kids start shooting a "real" gun.

[MT Gianni]

What is the thought on using Trail Boss?

Manufacturer says to start @ 60% of case capacity. That probably is not going to be where you want to have a quiet load.

[KirkD]

No description here of what we mean by 'quiet'. Are we talking the sound of a 22 rimfire? or of a gas powered pellet gun?

[oldtrucks]

I've loaded up some Super Target and 231, started at 6.0 and worked down from there in .3 increments. 6.0, 5.7, 5.4, and 5.1. I did 4 at each charge with each powder, with two boolits wax lube and two with Lyman Moly.

I was hoping to get out and chrono each and see how much noise there is with each load. Unfortunately, the weather has been so nice I spent my days off working on some other projects.

[helice]

That will be fun to read your findings. Should prove to be enlightening. Maybe I should pray for rain this week-end so you don't have to work around the house. :groner: We could use the rain too.

[popper]

Larry - filler with 231 or WST?

[felix]

If you want real quiet, keep your powder charge light and fast enough that when the gas exits the barrel, the gas velocity is less than the speed of sound.

Absolutely correct! ... felix

[felix]

Are we talking the sound of a 22 rimfire? or of a gas powered pellet gun?

The latter, hopefully. That is the only reason for the word "quiet". Notice that high speed pellet guns have a muffler installed, mostly because of the need for air pressure reduction. ... felix

[Knightflyer]

I was reading through this old thread as it's an interest of mine, but was sad to find it ended before results were posted of how quiet he managed to get the thing. I've got a kid who is rather sound-sensitive, so the lower I can keep it, the happier he is.
-KF

[JSnover]

Knightflyer, Here is a great thread on the topic. May not give you precisely what you're looking for but it's a good place to start.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?17536-Favorite-reduced-loads

[smkummer]

I was experimenting with red dot in 223 and 30-30 in my back yard for quiet ammo. I was using 311252 bullet (32 auto) for 30-30. Red-dot was more consistent than 231 when we got down to 3 grains or less. Meaning we starting sticking bullets with 231 when red-dot kept pushing them out. I stop my experimenting when 22 cci quiet became available again.

[Drm50]

I have a "chart" that came out of a magazine back in 70s, maybe Petersons. It's title was something
about getting year round use out of your deer rifle. I have fooled a good bit with 30/30, 308 & 30-06
light loads. The 1000-1200fps loads I used Horn 1/2 jacket plinkers, noise level about as a 22 but not the crack. The 500-600fps I used 32cal balls run through 308 size die. I have also loaded balls
in 35 Rem & 375H&H. In straight cases 357, 44, 45 and 45/70. All accurate at 50' or less. The 45/70
was only one that required either filler of Dacron or paper disc over powder. The powder laying down
length of case would give un uniform ignition and wouldn't group. I loaded some cast lead balls in
3006 with IMR-4064 trying to see how fast I could launch them. I was shooting them out of a Rem
721/ reciever sight. I had no chrony but on paper 1500fps+. Most of the loads for balls were pistol
powders. The bullet loads for the bottle necks ( jackets) were all IMR-4198.

[john.k]

I found to get quiet loads ,you need a long barrel.....in a 303 with a 30" barrel ,its easy to get quiet subsonic loads,a lot quieter than a 22 Subsonic.The fastest powder,soft lead,not heavy for cal,120gn in 30,and the rest is simple...I keep the velocity up a bit,say over 700f/s,and there is no risk of a bullet sticking.............In any case,when I fire a bullet,i know if it hits somthing.....in other words ,I keep my eyes open.

[oldtrucks]

Knightflyer I apologize for not following up. I spent the last few years moving and building a new place and got about 1/2 way through this project before I had to set it aside. Now that things have settled down some I'll try and find the data I have and finish this up. I'll post my findings once I have all the chrono data

[quilbilly]

I don't know if it is as quiet as you want but it is pleasant to shoot. I am using an 80% load density of Trail Boss under the Lyman 130 gr plain base boolit. The MV is about 1300 if memory serves from my chronograph. Coyotes hate that load and it rings the gong at 200 yards. I have had problems with load densities below 70% of Trail Boss because they gave me extreme variations in several calibers.

[Tackleberry41]

I worked up subsonic loads in my 30-30. Was a picky bolt gun that never liked cast anything. I used Solo1000 as I have a bunch of it. No filler, work fine. Load data would not do much good as a little variation length or bullet and everything changes.

And yes you can make subsonic 44 mag. Special data is a bit slow, I found a mid point between min mag and max special that keeps a 290gr cast subsonic in a Rossi single shot. very quiet.

[Texas by God]

.310" rb/#1 buck over 3 grs Bullseye is a nice short range quiet 30-30 load. Single load only. Same load in a .44 mag with a .433"rb is fun too.

[Tom W.]

I use 6.6 gr. of Bullseye and and a 160 gr cast Lee boolit with a gas check. I can't comment on the noise as I wear hearing protection when shooting and have ruined hearing anyway. In my rifle it's very accurate at 50 yards and recoil is light.
So far it's my favorite fire forming load.

[worker]

@quilbilly what is the barrel you get that velocity from?
Also how do you measure 80% density ?
One more question, how quiet is it compared to a .22

thx

[beagle]

One thing that I noticed when I wrote the article titled: Whisper Loads on Castpics is that all of my subsonic loads were very accurate at ranges of 50 yards./beagle

[Salmoneye]

.310" rb/#1 buck over 3 grs Bullseye is a nice short range quiet 30-30 load. Single load only. .

I can keep that load on a 9" skillet all day long at 50 yards with my 26" barreled Marlin 1893...

I seat the .310" ball flush in the case, and they load fine from the magazine...

Pure heck on pests in the garden...

[OverMax]

Deliberate suppressing of barrel report. Kind of leery to suggest here. i.e. As stuck in it's bore bullet is a possibility.

Thinking a fast burning pistol powder {reduced charge weight} might be your answer although with 30-30 brass? Such thin wall brass w/ long neck as 30wcf is. Down range accuracy beyond muzzle would likely deteriorate.

[outdoorfan]

Interesting topic, but everyone has a different idea of what "quiet" is. I developed a load (a pain-staking process) in my .357 Rossi trapper that sounds about like a medium hand clap. Around 1 grain of Red Dot packed tightly against the primer and maybe 350 fps, and that 125 grain hollow point is accurate to at least 40 yards, if'n I can keep track of the bullet drop. Now, that's quiet!

But I agree with the other poster that simply used the CCI Quiets anymore, which is what I do. My goal was to not have the neighbors know I was shooting.

[quilbilly]

@quilbilly what is the barrel you get that velocity from?
Also how do you measure 80% density ?
One more question, how quiet is it compared to a .22

thx
I am using it in a Mossberg 464 lever gun. The noise is more like a 22 Mag. rimfire with recoil about the same as the magnum.
As for measuring, I use sugar and a flashlight then make a brass dipper for the amount from some sort of a rifle cartridge case.
Not exactly technical but it works well. If you get much below 80% load density, pressures and velocity get very erratic with Trail Boss. Late edit - I checked my old records for the 30/30 and an 80% load density is little bit over 2 CC.

[Knightflyer]

I am using it in a Mossberg 464 lever gun. The noise is more like a 22 Mag. rimfire with recoil about the same as the magnum.

I'm using a 464 also. I was firing 165 gr boolits over around 5 gr of titegroup. It wasn't bad but I figured I could do better. My experiments are on hold at the moment as one of my teens went rather nuts and I moved all my stuff 2 hours away to a good friend's house. Better safe than sorry. But I miss being able to throw some cartridges together whenever I feel like it. This too will pass soon enough.

[mazo kid]

How quiet do you want, and what is your ultimate goal? A couple of years ago I was looking for a quiet, low velocity round for my .223. A friend suggested this: appropriate round ball, lubed with LLA, pushed through a Lee sizing die, lubed again, then seated over .8 gr. Tite Group held against the primer with a tiny tuft of Dacron. This in an unsized case from your rifle. Noise? What noise? The only sound was the striker hitting the firing pin. You could see the ball in flight. Accuracy was acceptable to 25-30 yards. At 1 gr. the sound was less than a 22 Short. Perhaps this may be of value if you work up your own 30-30 loads. Start a bit higher to make sure your ball is clearing the barrel and work down to what you want. You are on your own when trying this, I will not be responsible for any damage.

[Knightflyer]

I like this Mazo. I'll have to give a try when I get over to my stuff. I'm trying to set up a weekend to go 'visit' my equipment, lol. Actually, I'll probably just use my buddies, since his is setup and ready to go. That way all I have to dig out is brass & powder. He said he has a lifetime supply of primers he bought from another friends estate.

[dverna]

I suppose putting a silencer on a .30/30 would look weird.

[Texas by God]

I suppose putting a silencer on a .30/30 would look weird.
Suppressed 30-30 Win 94: pfft, CLACK CLACK! pfft, CLACK CLACK! Look and sound wierd for sure!

[fiberoptik]

Suppressed 30-30 Win 94: pfft, CLACK CLACK! pfft, CLACK CLACK! Look and sound wierd for sure!

[emoji2958][emoji2958][emoji2958][emoji2960][emoji848][emoji850]


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[dverna]

Suppressed 30-30 Win 94: pfft, CLACK CLACK! pfft, CLACK CLACK! Look and sound wierd for sure!

Now that is funny. But you forgot to add the "splat".

pfft, splat, Clack, Clack.

[NathanHoln]

Anybody do these with plated bullets? I ended up with 1000 plated 150gr projectiles.