What equipment to avoid?

[HawkCreek]

Hello all!
I'm brand new to reloading, just a few weeks ago I bought myself a Rock Chucker master reloading kit. Now other than a bullet puller I don't have any other equipment. So my question is what should I avoid? I mean is X better than Y kind of thing. I know more or less what I need but since I'm starting with a clean slate I'd rather buy the right(quality) thing the first time. I'm not wondering about components so much right now as I am the actual equipment.

A little background:

as stated all I have so far is what comes in the kit plus a bullet puller

initially this will be for jacketed bullets but eventually I'd like to get into casting as well (for some reason I think I really need a flat nose bullet for my .308)

I'm not rich! So unfortunately wont be buying a $600 tumbler anytime soon, but by the same token I'd rather not have to buy a cheap $60 tumbler ten times either.

So time to beat up on the new guy. Have at it.

[iron mule]

best advise i can give on this is to take it slow read here and other places about the experiences people have had with different brands and type of equipment
better yet is to find some one that is experienced and see if they will let you learn with them //hands on is better than anything when starting out from scratch

and always ask questions never be ashamed or afraid to ask about something/// but do a search first most questions have been answered here and if you look for them they are here
last but not least welcome to the reloading game and welcome here you wll find that this is a great bunch of guys and they hve a lot of combined experience/info
mule

[jmort]

I would ask what particular tool/equipment should I get.

[geargnasher]

We don't 'beat up' new guys here. Maybe some tough love, a little ribbing, or a serious reality check once in a while, but that's it. About that tough love thing: Asking the "what's best" or "what's worst" questions usually get so many differing opinions that you'll likely end up more confused than before. You WILL buy and use equipment that you end up not liking. You will find some things are junk to you even though others praise it, and you will find things you like that others seem not to. Don't worry about it.

I'll give you a few tips: you got a good press kit, one of the best, and it will serve you well for the rest of your life and probably a few other people's lives. You need quality reloading dies like RCBS, Hornady, Redding, or a mix of specific use dies like Redding Neck bushing dies and Forster Benchrest seater dies (MONEY WELL SPENT, HINT HINT), plenty of loading blocks (Frankford Arsenal Perfect Fit trays from Midway are super-duper and way better than the one-size-fits-nothing-and-the-round-count-doesn't-match-the- ammo-box-count RCBS tray), a GOOD 0-1" C-Clamp micrometer, a good dial or Vernier caliper, (NOT Chinese digital junk), and reloading manuals. The VLD type inside chamfering tools are good, and if you use military brass in your .308 you'll of course need a primer pocket swager. I have an RCBS swager and am non-plussed by it, but there are others out there that I hear are better. A primer pocket uniforming tool such as Redding offers is very handy as well and does wonders for proper primer seating.

You might want a hand priming tool. Warning, most of them suck IMO except for the OLD Lee one that's no longer made. The RCBS hand primer is decent, and I'd recommend it vs. priming on the press.

You will need a way to trim brass. The cheapest and simplest way by far is to get the Lee cutter and lock stud set for less than the cost of a burger and get the depth gauge for your caliber along with it. It's cheap, fast, and works. If you plan to chase accuracy very much, get a good, versatile case trimmer/neck turning setup like Forster makes. Beware those machines that only do one job, spend the extra on one that can be expanded and will support primer pocket uniforming, trimming to length, AND neck turning. Once you commit, you will end up with ten times the cost in small tooling, and none of the stuff interchanges between manufacturers, unlike shellholders for your press, so you're stuck with what you get. Start with a Lee case trimming setup to learn the ropes.

When you get into boolit casting, it gets about a million times more complex.......so master the J-words first.

Gear

[seaboltm]

I do things on the cheap, and I don't have to. I use a Lee Loadmaster most of the time. I also have a Lee Classic Cast for single stage needs. I hand prime using an RCBS hand primer. I almost never use the autoprime feature of the Loadmaster. I had a Midway brand case tumbler that died a few months ago after 20 years of use. I patched it/soldered it/put on new cords and it kept ticking. I replaced it with a Frankford Arsenal unit that I bet I can squeeze another 20 out of. I trim cases using the Lee case length gauge system. I did upgrade to the Lee ball handled cutter and quick release case holder to go with the case length gauges. I use mostly Lee dies, carbide in straight walls. I also have RCBS and Hornady dies. I have at least 20 calibers of dies and Lee works fine. I use a Redding beam balance. For measuring powder charges I use Lee dippers to get me close, and an RCBS trickler to top off the weighed charges. I have a Lee Perfect Powder Measure that I use on occasion. I c-clamp it to my bench when I need it. The Perfect Powder Measure throws an amazingly accurate charge and retails for $25 new. I have a Midway kinetic bullet puller I have had for 20 years. I even have an old Lyman aluminum hand press that I still use with Lee cast bullet sizers and is over 20 years old. All of my bullet molds are Lee. I am not a competitive shooter. I do light target shooting and hunt at modest ranges. If I need a bullet that will slam an animal at 200 yards accurately, I pick up my 24" Shilen barreled 6.5x55 ACK and launch 140 J-word bullets out the muzzle. I am a huge fan of Lee factory crimp dies and it is the only crimp I use, period. You have a great kit to start with and it is FAR more than I started with. I get a lot of life out of my gear, but I take care of it. I clean/lube my equipment and store it indoors.

[oscarflytyer]

I swear by RCBS dies, but also have a number of Lee dies. Very limited experience with the Lees, but work fine so far. Like a lot of the Lee cast bullet stuff. Molds are ok, like the sizer dies for use with a regular press, expander dies and factory crimp dies.

My press/scale/powder measure are all RCBS - bought as a kit way back in late '80s. Lee Mic. I use an older style RCBS hand primer and it is GREAT! But can't get that style any longer.

[Guardian]

+1 to what geargnasher said. What I like, you may not; and vice versa. Specific questions are far easier to answer. Cheap doesn't necessarily mean bad and expensive doesn't necessarily mean perfect. All the major manufacturers have good tools and some that leave much to be desired. Some tools (priming tools come to mind for me), you may find no one makes a perfect setup and it comes down to which one is the least aggravating.

Geargnasher covered the basics. All the other tools are just refinement. You have to define the level of refinement you require. Another way to put this is: how much time and money are you willing to spend on speed and/or accuracy? What level of speed and/or accuracy does your habit require?

I was a lurker for at least a year before joining, been here almost a year, and I'm still reading. The amount of info on this site is overwhelming, but take the time to read all you can. This will help you develop specific questions that can be answered more easily. Good luck, welcome to the forum, and enjoy yourself!

[timtonya]

I had a Lee loadmaster. Sold it because I had to tinker all the time to get it to run. Lee dies are decent. I do like the Dillon 550. Hornady makes a good single stage. Redding makes good rifle dies.

[btroj]

Know anyone in your area who reloads? Hands on learning works well.

Get a book like "ABCs of Reloading" and read up. Knowing what you need up front makes a purchase easier. Start with a single cartridge and do some learning. Go slow.

Gear gave some good advice. Listen to him.

[btroj]

I had a Lee loadmaster. Sold it because I had to tinker all the time to get it to run. Lee dies are decent. I do like the Dillon 550. Hornady makes a good single stage. Redding makes good rifle dies.

Oh, a progressive press is horrible for a beginner. Just my opinion but start with a single stage press.

[rattletrap1970]

Disagree with that progressive being bad for the beginner. I started with a Dillon 550RL and now have 3. If you (WANT) to use it as a single stage, you can, and it has the capability of being more down the road without re-purchasing.

[Del-Ray]

You don't need to buy a tumbler for your brass. One five gallon bucket, a gallon of hot water, and four teaspoons of citric acid will clean your brass and pasivate it for you. Plus, if you want you can reuse the solution.

Citric acid is a food additive. Known as sour salt, or pickling salt. Most stores have it in the canning isle. It's a white powder.

[frkelly74]

Manuals answer a lot of basic questions and give the reloader a good basis for making decisions regarding powder choice and bullet weight and can help you understand their relationship to pressure. The Lyman books are good instructional manuals and can keep you from getting into trouble. Start slowly and work up as you gain confidence. don't believe everything you see on the internet.

[Dan Cash]

Gear gave some excellent advice; listen up. You are off to a good start with the RCBS kit. You will find that there are some things in the kit that you don't need but what you do need is there and of good quality. Buy first class; I have done without until I could afford the good stuff.

A couple specific reccommendations: Wooden, case dimension specific loading blocks are better than plastic. Powder tricklers are a waste of money, use an empty rifle cartridge case with some propellant in it and roll it between your fingers, the powder trickles out nicely and $20 saved. Keep your press well lubed and clean, primer residue is as abrasive as lapping abrasive. The lubricant may drip on the floor but your press will be tight and true 50 years from now.

Good luck and have fun.

[cbrick]

A beginner needs to LEARN each step as it's happening, the why it's needed & how to set up the dies for the proper thing to happen. I strongly agree that a progressive is very much the wrong thing for a beginner. Besides, the OP in this thread already has one of the strongest well made presses there is so why would a beginner need to start with two presses least of all a progressive?

You should have gotten the RCBS book in your kit and it's an excellent one but don't settle for any one loading manual, get several. Comparing data is priceless and besides, there is a vast array of info in them, the actual loading recipes is the least of it. Read these manuals cover to cover, you'll be amazed at the amount of valid info in them.

Rick

[Ickisrulz]

You don't need to buy a tumbler for your brass. One five gallon bucket, a gallon of hot water, and four teaspoons of citric acid will clean your brass and pasivate it for you. Plus, if you want you can reuse the solution.

Citric acid is a food additive. Known as sour salt, or pickling salt. Most stores have it in the canning isle. It's a white powder.

I see people say this from time to time. But considering that tumblers can be had on the cheap and they clean brass quickly and well, why use any other method? Especially a wet method. Berry's makes tumblers for something like $70.00.

Most case cleaners work fine with a reasonable service live....at least based on what I read here. In vibratory, Thumler's seem to be the best available. Dillon makes the largest. The least expensive come from Harbor Freight. Personally, I've used the same RCBS model since 1989. I replaced the motor one time and had to fabricate a new top.

[btroj]

Read the manuals. Study them. Know them.

Understand what is happening at each step of the process. Learn what each die does, and why. Learn the differences in powders, what they do well, and their applications. Learn safety.

It isn't about making lots of ammo, it is about making good, safe ammo.

Rick, you and I are on the same page regarding a progressive. You need to KNOW what is happening at each step, why try to learn 4 at once? I would rather see someone new spend that money on a trimmer, micrometer, caliper, and manipulate manuals instead of a "go fast" press. I got my Dillon after 10 plus years of experience and it still gave me fits at first. The thought of learning on one, frightening.

[Newtire]

A good press to get is a turret by Lyman. That way, you can set all your dies in place and just twist the head of the tool when you need to. I have a Lee single stage press that I use with their auto-prime. As far as dies go, I found that the Lee dies are great unless you are shooting a rifle with chamber cut to the minimum. Sizing lube, nothing beats lanolin from the hippie store. Some good tips are to be found here on this site. Your mileage may vary...Above all, safety first and don't take chances. Get some good books on reloading like has already been mentioned.

[clownbear69]

Just about any brand will work and get the job done. The one that won't is smart reloader. Do not get it. It's cheap Chinese copy of RCBS .

Other than that I've used LEE hornady RCBS Lyman and well redding has been to rich for my blood

[FishingFool]

Reloading just for a few calibers? Rifle? Pistol? How many rounds a year?

[dragon813gt]

Buy the tool for the application at a price you can afford. Anything above that is just personal opinion.

[gmsharps]

Manuals answer a lot of basic questions and give the reloader a good basis for making decisions regarding powder choice and bullet weight and can help you understand their relationship to pressure. The Lyman books are good instructional manuals and can keep you from getting into trouble. Start slowly and work up as you gain confidence. don't believe everything you see on the internet.

Get the Lyman manual now and read it multiple times and ask questions on anything you do not undeerstand. This will give you the basics you need for loading and casting. Did I mention to get the Lyman now and start reading. Without a good foundation you will flounder and could possibly make some serious mistakes.

gmsharps

[nicholst55]

Just about any brand will work and get the job done. The one that won't is smart reloader. Do not get it. It's cheap Chinese copy of RCBS .

Other than that I've used LEE hornady RCBS Lyman and well redding has been to rich for my blood

I will echo that sentiment. At least at this point, the Smart Reloader tools are a waste of money. They may improve over time. My guess is that they'll just disappear.

[Mk42gunner]

Hello all!
I'm brand new to reloading, just a few weeks ago I bought myself a Rock Chucker master reloading kit. Now other than a bullet puller I don't have any other equipment. So my question is what should I avoid? I mean is X better than Y kind of thing. I know more or less what I need but since I'm starting with a clean slate I'd rather buy the right(quality) thing the first time. I'm not wondering about components so much right now as I am the actual equipment.

A little background:

as stated all I have so far is what comes in the kit plus a bullet puller

initially this will be for jacketed bullets but eventually I'd like to get into casting as well (for some reason I think I really need a flat nose bullet for my .308)

I'm not rich! So unfortunately wont be buying a $600 tumbler anytime soon, but by the same token I'd rather not have to buy a cheap $60 tumbler ten times either.

So time to beat up on the new guy. Have at it.

First, Welcome aboard.

Second, I had to go find your kit to see what it contains. It looks to me like you have the basics, with a few more items you can load almost any metallic cartridge you can think of.

Things to avoid:

1. Powder tricklers. They look neat and handy as heck. Reality is they are not needed. A clean and dry coffee cup with a small spoon or dipper works just as well. I have gotten sucked into thinking "That sure looks handy." Truth is I learned to dispense powder with a teaspoon onto a scale pan, and it still works better for me than a powder trickler.

2. The aluminum or plastic case length gage. A set of dial calipers set to the length you decide on will do for measuring case length and so much more.

Things that are nice to have, but not necessarily right now:

1. A case tumbler. Cases do not need to be shiny, they need to be clean enough to not scratch the loading dies. You can do this by wiping each one as you inspect it for flaws. My tumbler is an old Midway 1292 filled with lizard litter from the pet store.

2. A lathe type case trimmer. Once you get one, do yourself a favor and get the power adapter for it, trimming brass is tedious enough.

Things I would get right now:

1. A decent mechanical 0-6" dial caliper and 0-1" micrometer. Its not that I don't trust batteries, I just don't trust batteries.

2. A set of Lee powder dippers. Very handy and once you find you need another size, dippers are easily made by soldering a handle on a brass case.

3. A Lee cutter and lock stud with the case length gage for the first caliber you intend to load.

As for anything else, I really like first few editions of the ABC's of Reloading, when they were written by Dean Grinnell.

Good luck and be safe,

Robert

[462]

Everyone has their own personal preferences, and that's the way it should be as one size doesn't fit all. Too, no one company's tools are always the best for every job.

RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, Lee, Redding, Forster, etc. have catalogues that can be ordered for free from their web sites. Midway no longer publishes a free master catalogue, but Midsouth and Sinclair do. Peruse the catalogues and buy the items that you think will do the best job and that fit your budget.

Don't be shy about buying a used tool -- check out the site's sales forum. A local gunsmith is always an excellent place to find bargains on used equipment. Ebay can be a good source, but homework is required.

Reloading is about much experimenting, if you find that a particular tool doesn't do the job the way you like, try another.

[mdi]

When I began reloading, I started with one or two tools and built on my inventory as I needed a new tool. I researched each individual tool and purchased what I felt was best for my reloading style/needs. I have mebbe one of every reloading tool/equipment manufacturer's product, and some that aren't in business anymore. I started with a Lee Loader, then got a Lee scale, then a Redding press, the a Lee powder measure, and so on. I was a lifelong machinist/mechanic so I had precision measuring tool and a lot of hand tools that fit my reloading needs too. And some stuff I have now I didn't acquire until several years after I started producing ammo (I reloaded 12 years before I got a tumbler. I was making ammo for mebbe 25 years before I got a case trimmer, and there is prolly some tools that may be considered "a necessity" that I still don't have). If "X" is better than "Y" tool, but it doesn't fit your methods/style, it ain't worth much to you.

Looking at the detailed explanation of the reloading process in your reloading texts/manuals, you'll see what tools you'll need. I had good dial calipers and micrometers, and I believe the are needed for producing safe ammo (especially necessary if you plan on shooting lead).

Here's an old article about starting on a shoestring reloading. Much won't apply since you already have a press and some equipment, but pretty insightful about getting started... http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/51 and nearly every reloading forum has a "How to get started" sticky...

[1hole]

You have a lot to learn so don't buy things you can't properly use and may never have any need for. Don't buy or avoid anything by brand; if it's American made it will perform well when used correctly and for the intended purposes. Price tells you how much something costs but not a thing about what it would do for you. Avoid any 'advice' that starts with this or that is "junk" or 'get this, it's what I use' - neither is a reliable guide with value.

Your question is much too simplistic; any recommendations we might make based on our needs is worth less than nothing if your needs aren't the same as ours. Other than your .308 caliber and (good) FP game bullet choice we don't know a thing about what YOU need. Tell us what rifle you'll be shooting, if it has a custom barrel and chamber, what you expect to shoot and at what ranges, a guess at how many rounds you might want to burn through in a session and how many rounds a year you might end up shooting. Only with that info can we make any valid tool suggestions for what you might find helpful.

It sounds like you have a .308 sporter rifle you'll be using for moderate range hunting so common dies of any brand will do all you can ask for big game hunting with hunting bullets.

[Certaindeaf]

Get what you need. If you need it, Lee makes it. lol.
Oh, Lee doesn't make case tumblers because, wait for it.. you don't need one.

[r1kk1]

There are certain items I would not buy again and others I would. But my needs are different than yours. Find a reloader in your area and try before you buy if you can.

Take care

r1kk1

[Griff]

Manuals answer a lot of basic questions and give the reloader a good basis for making decisions regarding powder choice and bullet weight and can help you understand their relationship to pressure. The Lyman books are good instructional manuals and can keep you from getting into trouble. Start slowly and work up as you gain confidence. don't believe everything you see on the internet.You CANNOT have too many reloading manuals. After you get that trimmer set up and a hand primer tool as mentioned in post #4, this is what you'll need more than anything else.

While one manual "might" get you by... having multiple manuals from both powder and bullet manufacturers will provide you with options on loads that a single manual might not begin to cover. When I find OLD manuals, I buy them up. And while I might not use the exact data, sometimes they give a perspective on the cartridge that modern manuals overlook. That, and sometimes new manuals drop data for the "obsolete" cartridges I seem to favor!

[EDG]

So rattletrap you started that way but you really have no idea how it is to start any other way.
Most likely you are a tunnel vision pistol shooter and do not load much rifle ammo? True false maybe?


Disagree with that progressive being bad for the beginner. I started with a Dillon 550RL and now have 3. If you (WANT) to use it as a single stage, you can, and it has the capability of being more down the road without re-purchasing.

[waksupi]

I personally wouldn't have a progressive. I'm a handloader. Progressives are for reloaders.

[jmort]

"I'm a handloader. Progressives are for reloaders. "

The highest order in Recluse's hierarchy. I suppose a "Handloader/Bullet Caster" might be the highest designation. I'm a handloader only because I only have handloader tools. The most sophisticated being a hand-press and a Lee Loader.

[462]

HawkCreek,

Ignore the thread drift regarding the single stage versus progressive press. Your Rockchucker is a very well built press that has stood the test of time. Mine, bought used and made some time in the '70s, will be around long after I'm gone.

I use an RCBS Jr 3 that's even older and will outlive me, too.

[1hole]

The anticipated life span of green presses is vastly over stated in that they are no longer lived than any others. My original red and gray Lyman press was bought in '65 and I'm giving it to a grandson, he won't wear it out either.

[garym1a2]

Lee Loadmaster, lee scale and cheap digital scales I would avoid. Items to get are a good scale, calipers, powder measure and press.
For presses I think you could not go wrong with the Rockchucker and the lee classic cast as single stage. For medium speed presses the Lee classic cast turret is a good choice and the Dillon 50B is a great choice. Full progressives are best left for the more experienced.

[Garyshome]

Start with pistol first, do a bunch of that first then move on to rifle.

[JWFilips]

In My Opinion: There is nothing wrong with using a single stage rock chucker to load pistol ammo. For me I come home from work, Have supper, and go to the loading room and knock out about 50 rounds ( oh yeah, I weigh each charge) It keeps me humble and tends to make me try to shoot those rounds as accurately as I can hold them...Well that's just my way of working.
I tend to like my RCBS stuff a bit better but I have others and just find myself adapting to each different brand. If the adaptation takes too long it gets sold.... and I buy another brand.

I'm getting older and I don't need things to go any quicker then life is going already. If my method of reloading slows things down that is a good thing!... for GOD knows, everything else in life is whizzing by!

[rattletrap1970]

Umm EDG, yeah I'd say you are both mistaken and inflammatory with that statement. I've been reloading since I was 19 and I'm 43 now, I shoot on the Connecticut High Power Rifle Team and .22 prone team, and currently shoot on a .22 gallery league. I cast my own bullets for both rifle and pistol. I've developed my own wildcats, and am quite well versed in BOTH rifle and pistol reloading. I have tunnel vision about few things other than my 2nd amendment rights. When I say that I think a new reloader can handle a progressive press I just assume that folks have the same aptitude that I did. I'm welcome to my opinion and mine is such that anyone can handle a progressive if they can handle a single stage, now if you think otherwise that is completely your right and your opinion. But please, refrain from your judgement of my experience, knowledge and tunnel vision (or lack thereof).

[geargnasher]

Seems that my prediction in post #4 has come true, plus a couple of good dog fights. How helpful.

I haven't read the ABS's of Reloading yet, but I probably need to get that one myself.

0-1" mic and 0-6" dial or Vernier calipers, all that's needed for measuring at the loading bench.

Gear

[WallyM3]

One single stage press in your battery of tools is a basic, I believe (sorry to belabor that issue). You can always add to it.

Machine gun fired HXP .30-06 cases make my turret and progressives groan.

But read, read and reread, then it will begin to fall into place and you'll better be able to benefit from what goes on here (and elsewhere). There is a particular (not to say peculiar) language spoken in the craft.

[462]

Seems that some posters didn't read that the OP has already purchased an RCBS reloading kit that includes a Rockchucker single stage press.

[WallyM3]

Oh, I read it, all right. Doesn't hurt to reaffirm the OP's choice, though.

The second part is the crux of my posting.

[462]

WallyM3,
I was referring to the posters who advised the OP buy a progressive, and their ensuing discussion.

I agree with you mentioning much reading.

[HawkCreek]

Thanks everyone, and yes 99% of the replies were educational. I'm enjoying this forum!

[WallyM3]

462, I kind of figured that, but was making my excuses a priori. (chuckle)

I've been impressed with my own ignorance lately. I've started to buy older and older manuals (pre-1970s when I started) and I'm abashed to learn what I don't know.

[geargnasher]

I just thought of something that might help a beginner: Look through the loading bench picture sticky thread and see what everyone else is doing. There's a little bit of everything from Lee Lovers to Dillon Snobs and a whole lot of pictures with a lot of every color in them.

Gear

[WallyM3]

I just thought of something that might help a beginner: Look through the loading bench picture sticky thread and see what everyone else is doing. There's a little bit of everything from Lee Lovers to Dillon Snobs and a whole lot of pictures with a lot of every color in them.

Gear

Now that's one of those, "Why didn't I think of that?"

[btroj]

The ABSs of reloading? Is that the one with Anthony Weiner on the cover? Is that what you call the Blue Press? My wife refers to that as G and A, T and A.

[btroj]

I just thought of something that might help a beginner: Look through the loading bench picture sticky thread and see what everyone else is doing. There's a little bit of everything from Lee Lovers to Dillon Snobs and a whole lot of pictures with a lot of every color in them.

Gear

I prefer Lee Loather to Dillon snob.....

And my bench isn't visible in any photos, it is cover with junk!

[HawkCreek]

I just thought of something that might help a beginner: Look through the loading bench picture sticky thread and see what everyone else is doing. There's a little bit of everything from Lee Lovers to Dillon Snobs and a whole lot of pictures with a lot of every color in them.

Gear

I've been doing that very thing! Gathering ideas on designing my own bench and where to put equipment.

BTW the "Lee Lovers and Dillon Snobs" comment gave me a chuckle.

[WallyM3]

I guess your RCBS press puts you in the respectable middle.

[btroj]

When it comes to presses I am colorblind. I have owned red, green (two different shades), and blue. Oddly, no orange.

[WallyM3]

I hate it (well, not really), but I've become a color collector.

Just acquired a "gold".

But coupla' things I finally had the sense to avoid (one is equipment, the second technique) is priming on the press and decapping when sizing.

[waco]

When it comes to presses I am colorblind. I have owned red, green (two different shades), and blue. Oddly, no orange.

Well I for one applaud you Brad for not owning an orange press. Around these parts, orange is associated with Beaver fans. In the Coats household, we are Duck fans. You have owned two different shades of green presses at some point in time, so your OK by me.

[waco]

Only green and blue on my bench. The bench isn't all that big though now that I think about it......

[btroj]

Well I for one applaud you Brad for not owning an orange press. Around these parts, orange is associated with Beaver fans. In the Coats household, we are Duck fans. You have owned two different shades of green presses at some point in time, so your OK by me.

Ducks? Isn't that the team with more style than substance? More uniform options than championships?

I don't even own Lyman dies except for M dies. Not sure why.

[waco]

Ducks? Isn't that the team with more style than substance? More uniform options than championships?

I don't even own Lyman dies except for M dies. Not sure why.

....That was below the belt dude...

[btroj]

Yeah, but it was fun!

My daughter is at Iowa so we enjoyed the Iowa/Nebraska game this year. Heck, I went to Nebraska and I still don't root for them. I don't even wear red!

My daughter says it is great to be a Hawkeye, I say its expensive for her to be a Hawkeye!

[waco]

Yeah, but it was fun!

My daughter is at Iowa so we enjoyed the Iowa/Nebraska game this year. Heck, I went to Nebraska and I still don't root for them. I don't even wear red!

My daughter says it is great to be a Hawkeye, I say its expensive for her to be a Hawkeye!

I hope it continues to cost you copious amounts of money.
At least you'll have a daughter with a good paying job when your old and grey to take care of you.

[rattletrap1970]

Dillon snob? I bought a dillon back in 1989 after a friend showed me his single stage press (a lee if I'm not mistaken) he showed me how to set up each of the dies and I got the point, but I bought the Dillon because I liked the design, the warranty, I had read the reviews and I made a decision. Never at any time did I say it was any better than anything, all I did was disagree that you cant learn how to reload on a progressive machine. And if you KNEW me, snob would not be one of the words you'd use to describe me.

So is that what you are if you do your research, buy a machine, learn how to use it well and simply offer your opinion that anyone with the aptitude can learn how to use "a progressive" (not necessarily a Dillon); A Snob?

[btroj]

Nobody was singled out, were they? This statement is more about those who feel that if it isn't blue it shouldn't be.
Trust me, that guy owns a progressive and he knows how to literally make it work.

Don't be so thin skinned, it was a comment, not a personal attack.

[cbrick]

I don't understand the thread drift to what press to get or which is better. In the OP he stated very clearly that HE HAS A PRESS, and an excellent one at that.

He also asked what to avoid and what he needs over and above what came in The RCBS kit. He also asked for quality equipment.

You need more manuals.
You need a quality micrometer.
You need a quality caliper.
You need to take your time and learn each step and the reason for it. Between the manuals and this forum you'll catch on quickly, don't be afraid to ask questions.

You DO NOT NEED a new press, single stage or progressive.

Rick

[rattletrap1970]

The thread drift occurred because it seemed (by the comments made) that a dissenting opinion got everyone out of the woodwork to bash said dissenter. I personally never said anything about getting a new press.

And I'm not thin skinned. I can read quite well. I can also infer from comments who is pointing what at whom. I've been on other forums where you either ask a simple question or pose a simple opinion and folks come out of the woodwork to give you a "what for". I mention that I disagree that you have to learn on a single and I read "Dillon snob" I hear drivel like "handloader vs reloader". I think that is uneccessary and when I point that out I'M thin skinned?

[Guardian]

They say a bit dog always hollers. To rephrase what btroj said a bit...there's Dillon owners and them what wear the sapphire shades.

Congrats. There are people who learn to ride motorcycles without ever having ridden a bicycle, but they ain't the norm. Consider yourself exceptional and realize that everyone isn't so mechanically inclined. What is fact is that a progressive press is more complex that a single stage press. It's generally sound to start with simple and work up. Most folks don't dive into the deep end of the pool their first time in the water. Something called self preservation kicks in for most of us.

Back to the OP original topic.....

Avoid brass fired in a PTR or other fluted chamber. It can be used, but its generally more trouble than its worth.

As you prime cases, set them in the loading block upside down until you get ready to put the powder in them. Turn each one over after you've measured out the charge for that particular case. This will help you avoid putting powder into a case with no primer and help you keep track of where you left off.

Avoid blaming the equipment. Its usually setup of the equipment or a missed step in the process that's the problem.

[jmort]

Acknowledging the O/P does not need a press and may never need another press, as to purchasing a first press, there is nothing wrong with getting a turret press and using it in single stage mode. Actually a very good idea. I would get a non-indexing Dillon 550 if that caught my fancy or recommend it to a beginner. As a Lee Precision Fan Boy, I would get the Classic Turret. Back to the O/P, the single brand to avoid would be the ironically named "Smart" products. Some avoid all Lee Precision products, but Lee Precision must be doing something right, as they are #1 and it is more than the best price that made them #1. Consider each purchase and do your due diligence. Even if you decide to purchase from another vendor, the owner/user rating/comments on the Midway USA site are very useful. I always start there.

[r1kk1]

Some avoid all Lee Precision products, but Lee Precision must be doing something right, as they are #1 and it is more than the best price that made them #1.

Explain this please. I'm curious.

r1kk1

[jmort]

Please explain your question. Lee precision is the most popular brand.

[w5pv]

The only thing I have bought that I was disappointed in was a Redding Beam powder Scale.It is a pile of junk that I paid around $80.00 for.It is so light that you barley touch it and you have to re 0 the scale.I measure each and every load.It was accurate enough but the cast aluminum base was nothing to it.like a feather.This is one item along with battery operated items I would avoid.I was use to the old Herters stuff that I bought in the early 60's and used until 2005 when Hurricane Rita destroyed my reloading shack and all my stuff was scattered to the 4 winds by the scroungers and looters.Then I retooled with LEE and so far it has served me well.If you are handy and have the tools there are a lot of jigs you can make to use a dial indicator to measure with,which will be as accurate as a mike and much faster.Don't be afraid to experiment with your tools,Most of all be safe and sty within the guide lines of your manuals.Don't try to hotrod a gun that is not meant to be a hot rod.Good luck

[cbrick]

I hear drivel like "handloader vs reloader". I think that is uneccessary and when I point that out I'M thin skinned?

Thin skinned? Perhaps not thin skinned but definitely un-informed. Drivel? There is a very real difference between a reloader and a handloader.

Rick

[r1kk1]

Please explain your question. Lee precision is the most popular brand.

I would like the link to where this is stated. My web searching abilities turned up nothing. I cannot find a third party source to back your statement up but Lee's website. That won't do. I weed out sales propaganda and look for 3rd party sources comparing sales from ATK/Blount, Hornady, Redding, Lyman Products Group, Dillon Aero/Precision, CH4D, Forster and can't find it.

I apologize to the OP for the thread drift. I have bought tools since the 70s. There is stuff on my bench that have been with me all during that time while others packaged back up and returned. I'm not a fan of kits but RCBS will take good care of you. I have quite a few used dies I paid 5.00 for and they still honor their warranty. The only press I have of theirs is the Summit. I use to have an A2 and Big Max but through a burglary. . .

I have presses from every current reloading company but Hornady and Lyman. The only Lee press I have is their hand press. Comes in handy when reloading stuff in camp or fine tuning a load at the range.

Be critical of what you read. It's your money. Setup your equipment and have fun. There is no greater satisfying feeling as taking game with a load assembled by you or putting five or ten shots in a small group or loading ammunition for a rifle that ammo or even brass is available and getting it to shoot again!

Take care

r1kk1

[rattletrap1970]

Yeah OK, you keep telling yourself that.
And un-informed? How about you keep your comments about informed or not I am to yourself? You sir do not know me, certainly not enough to insult me. I've always been pretty amiable on this site till someone wants to take a poke at me, that I will not put up with. For some reason you have a problem with me, whatever dude, but don't insult me, cause I don't do that.


Thin skinned? Perhaps not thin skinned but definitely un-informed. Drivel? There is a very real difference between a reloader and a handloader.

Rick

[Newtire]

Handloads...Reloads....We used to call a Browning A-5 an automatic. Nowadays, some kid will give you the business for calling an autoloader an automatic. What's the world coming to? I used to be married to a woman like that....honestly guys...this cabin fever thing is spreading...

[cbrick]

Get what you need. If you need it, Lee makes it. lol.
Oh, Lee doesn't make case tumblers because, wait for it.. you don't need one.

That's true enough but then you don't "need" a reloading press either but it's sure nice to have one huh?

Rick

[jmort]

"My web searching abilities turned up nothing."

Why dispute the obvious? You got nothing. Lee Precision sells more reloading equipment than any other manufacturer. That is a fact beyond dispute. Exactly what "third party source" do you want to confirm a fact beyond dispute? Huffington Post?

[Doc_Stihl]

The one piece of equipment I stay away from is chrome plated dies. That's it.

[357mags]

You'll need a scale, electronic or balance. A powder measure/dispenser. A set of dial calipers. You're on the right track, single stage Rock Chucker A1! Stay brand name whatever you buy. Harbor Freight, Wal Mart, Tractor Supply have NOTHING you need to reload!

[rattletrap1970]

That one I have to agree with. I don't like the look of them and I find they always end up flaking.

I had a bunch of old dies that I got from an estate sale (RCBS, and Redding) that were rusted. I plugged 'em with silicone corks, grit blasted the outside with 180 grit aluminum oxide and Zinc Parkerized them. Those are some sexy dies now LOL.


The one piece of equipment I stay away from is chrome plated dies. That's it.

[Doc_Stihl]

You'll need a scale, electronic or balance. A powder measure/dispenser. A set of dial calipers. You're on the right track, single stage Rock Chucker A1! Stay brand name whatever you buy. Harbor Freight, Wal Mart, Tractor Supply have NOTHING you need to reload!

I don't agree with that at all.
I've bought media from harbor freight for tumbling, wave washers and hardware for molds, safety equipment for casting.
I have cheap pots from Wal Mart for smelting. ATF and Grease comes from there too.
The dollar store provides me with a TON of hand tools. Little SS screens for scooping out WW clips, baggies, plastic buckets for brass, big spoons for stirring melt, and lots more.
I buy my lube supplies from Walgreens. Wax, lanolin.

[rattletrap1970]

I got my turkey fryer and my inexpensive stainless pot for smelting lead at Walmart, both were on sale after Thanksgiving for Cheeeep. My big ladle is from an indoor flea market here in town, as are my standard size muffin pans for lead and my mini muffin tins for pewter. I get the pewter at that same flea market and the local thrift store.

A lot of those vibratory cleaners are generic and get rebranded regardless of where you get them. I built my own rotary tumbler and for the extra expense of the stainless tumbling media i have never turned on my vibratory tumblers again.

[Doc_Stihl]

I forgot about the tumbler. Mines made from a no name Tread Mill. RCBS doesn't make a tread mill yet so I had to find something....

[cbrick]

"My web searching abilities turned up nothing."

Why dispute the obvious? You got nothing. Lee Precision sells more reloading equipment than any other manufacturer. That is a fact beyond dispute. Exactly what "third party source" do you want to confirm a fact beyond dispute? Huffington Post?


Lee precision is the most popular brand.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm part owner of the Angeles Ranges which includes the reloading store. This reloading store sells tons of dies, presses and everything else related to reloading, they sell no loaded ammo or guns, reloading tools & supplies only. They sell all the major brands including Dillon presses & dies, RCBS, Redding, LEE, Hornady etc.

LEE is far from their best selling in any category. They stopped selling Dillon presses for a time because they didn't sell though they were back in the store the last time I was in there.

In dies, presses & most other items the very best selling is RCBS. That is a fact beyond dispute.

Rick

[jcwit]

You'll need a scale, electronic or balance. A powder measure/dispenser. A set of dial calipers. You're on the right track, single stage Rock Chucker A1! Stay brand name whatever you buy. Harbor Freight, Wal Mart, Tractor Supply have NOTHING you need to reload!

REALLY? Well I'll be!



Even Good Will has supplies that I find useful. Nothing wrong with being frugal.

Local flea market supplied me with a Winchester model 52 single shot mag. adapter, and a vintage 5 shot mag, both like new. No they did not have the (W) on the bottom they were Winchester brand. Cost for the 2, $20.00 for both, check out that price on GunBroker.

[r1kk1]

"My web searching abilities turned up nothing."

Why dispute the obvious? You got nothing. Lee Precision sells more reloading equipment than any other manufacturer. That is a fact beyond dispute. Exactly what "third party source" do you want to confirm a fact beyond dispute? Huffington Post?

Huffington Post is not a trade publication. In my practice, we use evidenced based practice and governing bodies as well as trade publications. Examples would be AORN, ANA, AMA, etc. we also search out peer reviewed publications from EABSCO HOST, Primo, etc.

A statement without validation is not truth, it is an opinion. I'm not in the industry of manufacturers but there must be someone on this forum who is that can validate your statement or not.

I'm not slamming you nor Lee. There must be a publication that both of us are not seeing. Statements coming from the manufacturer are statements.

Understand where I'm coming from? I work hard all day backing up subjective data with objective, evidence based practice, governing organizations, etc.

Take care

r1kk1

[jcwit]

Being as Lee Precision is a family owned company it sorta hard to find their production or financial numbers.

[ohland]

I looked at a Rock Chucker master reloading kit, some nice stuff there. The Uniflow will be happiest with ball or short stick powder (I have at least 3 UPM). The chamfer tool is a basic design that many companies use. The 5-0-5 scale is good (leave the Chargemaster and other electric scales go for the time being). If you are handloading 20 or so cases at a time, then the dipper and UPM will do.

If you run into issues with stick powders, and you would rather not cut powder grains with the UPM, look at the Lee dipper set. I don't see a powder trickler, my druthers is the (heavy!) Redding. Sits tall and won't move. Other manual tricklers will work fine, can even put them on top of a book or something for height. RCBS? makes a trickler stand to raise the height.

I see no case prep, like a Forster, or Lyman, or RCBS, or Wilson case trimmer. Having turned the handle on my Forster like giving a prayer wheel a turn, I like the collets they use to hold the rim of the case. There are holy wars waged over the correct trimmer. If you want to get into LOTS of rounds downrange, the inner and outer chamfer heads will save you lots of time.

For checking headspace and seating depth, the (relatively) cheap Hornady LnL headspace and seating stuff will do what the (expensive) RCBS precision mic will do. Use the LnL with a good caliper.

[gefiltephish]

I would suggest 3 additions to the RCBS kit that haven't already been mentioned. Check weights (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/493216/rcbs-standard-scale-check-weights-605-grains?cm_vc=wishList) for the scale. Not a necessity but you may be happier with it, a powder measure stand (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/125792/rcbs-advanced-powder-measure-stand). I like the Hornady (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/190804/hornady-fast-load-powder-measure-stand) one as it seems to have a little more reach. A square primer flip tray (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/466211/rcbs-primer-turning-tray) large enough for Federal primer containers. I use this for Federal primers, center the primers in it and then cover with the Lee (or whoever's) round tray and flip over. Viola! No muss, no fuss and not a single primer harmed in the process.

I agree with the suggestions for the Lee dippers and better loading trays. I too like the Franklin Arsenal reloading trays, but they're not perfect. There always seems to be at least one of the holes that are malformed, usual one on the perimeter. I know all I have to do is heat up the head of a case and push it in there, but I always forget about it until the next time I pull the tray out. Ugh.

When I started doing rifle, I got some of the Lee trimmer stuff but quickly tired of it. It works, just wasn't my cup of tea. After that experience and much research I wound up with the slick LE Wilson setup from Sinclair. Ahhhhhh. I figure that the Lee trimmer helped me to gain the knowledge that I needed to make a better more informed choice (for me) later on. For that, it was worth the price I paid for it.

To answer the op's question directly about what to avoid...if you're ever inclined to go for a progressive, avoid the load master like the plague. I started out with one I got for free. Like the trimmer, I guess it was worth the experience as I learned a lot. After a year of beating my head against the wall, I bought an LNL AP. Ahhhhh. I also have a Rock Chucker, LCT and Lee hand press. I like all for certain uses, except the load master.

[dudel]

I will echo that sentiment. At least at this point, the Smart Reloader tools are a waste of money. They may improve over time. My guess is that they'll just disappear.

+1 Most anything will or can be made to work. The exception being the dreck from Smart Reloader. Buy any color but yellow. The price will be tempting; but they can't seem to make even a cartridge case correctly IMHO.

I, like others like (in no particular order) RCBS, Hornady, Dillon and Lyman. I like Lee molds, pots and push through sizers. I don't like the Lee scale. I have some Lee dies for lightly used calibers. The Lee dies work fine; but I find surface rust on the dies (doesn't affect function), that I don't find on my other dies.

I would start with a single stage. Even if you progress, you will find many uses for the single stage that will be difficult/impossible with the 550b (I have one). Lee push through sizers or the lead tester won't work on a 550b. Same with pocket swaging tools like the RCBS. If you find that you enjoy reloading, and need to up the volume, then consider the progressive. But you will still find uses for the single stage.

Unfortunately, in todays market, you may have to get what's available. As long as it's not yellow, you should be fine.

[CATTLEMAN]

I have my favorites and some are different from the favorites of my friends who are very experienced. It's kind of like shoes, it about what fits you best when you need it.

As a side note my favorites have changed over time as I have improved my reloading style. It has caused me to buy and sell some equipment over the years as I find things that work better for me.

I no longer have much brand loyalty but rather design loyalty. I have one type of de-capper that I like best, three brands of threaded die seaters and two brands of arbor seaters I like best etc.

For one chambering I load a lot of on a progressive press, I have five different brand of dies to make it work optimally, the small base sizer for the parent case, a fl sizer for the actual cartridge I'm reloading, powder / bell die, seater and crimp die are all of different manufacture and the assembly works great.

Most products from reputable manufacturers will work, but you may develop preferences over time as I did. Use the tools you have a lot and you will find your way, the journey of learning and experimenting is the most fun for me anyway.

Happy Holiday!!!!

[CATTLEMAN]

I have my favorites and some are different from the favorites of my friends who are very experienced. It's kind of like shoes, it about what fits you best when you need it.

As a side note my favorites have changed over time as I have improved my reloading style. It has caused me to buy and sell some equipment over the years as I find things that work better for me.

I no longer have much brand loyalty but rather design loyalty. I have one type of de-capper that I like best, three brands of threaded die seaters and two brands of arbor seaters I like best etc.

For one chambering I load a lot of on a progressive press, I have five different brand of dies to make it work optimally, the small base sizer for the parent case, a fl sizer for the actual cartridge I'm reloading, powder / bell die, seater and crimp die are all of different manufacture and the assembly works great.

Most products from reputable manufacturers will work, but you may develop preferences over time as I did. Use the tools you have a lot and you will find your way, the journey of learning and experimenting is the most fun for me anyway.

Happy Holidays!!!!

[gunoil]

Only way to have a lee loadmaster is to go to mikesreloadingbench.com Then your just fine unless u want a 6 or 8 station. I have two loadmasters with magic mikes stuff and l have a super 1050 Dillon.

[detox]

Are you a reloader or precision reloader? There is a big difference. When i first started reloading i purchased a RCBS video featuring David Tubb. He taught me alot about how to reload accurate ammunition.

I like the majority of RCBS stuff, but Redding, Lyman, Hornaday, Lee...they all make something that is a little better than the others.

[EDG]

Rattletrap
You did not say a word about what you actually use your progressive for did you? Please connect the dots - what exactly does shooting .22 rimfire have to do with a progressive loader? Is it just fill for your weak defense?
I shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 LR before you and the Dillon presses were ever born and I do not think there is any connection.
I also have the same Dillon loader plus many other presses for metallic and shotshells and I have been loading since about the time you were born and before Dillion began marketing anything. Beginners should never start out on a progressive. You are welcome to your opinion but when it deserves comment to the contrary expect it. Since you did not start out on a single stage you really do not know what I am talking about.


Umm EDG, yeah I'd say you are both mistaken and inflammatory with that statement. I've been reloading since I was 19 and I'm 43 now, I shoot on the Connecticut High Power Rifle Team and .22 prone team, and currently shoot on a .22 gallery league. I cast my own bullets for both rifle and pistol. I've developed my own wildcats, and am quite well versed in BOTH rifle and pistol reloading. I have tunnel vision about few things other than my 2nd amendment rights. When I say that I think a new reloader can handle a progressive press I just assume that folks have the same aptitude that I did. I'm welcome to my opinion and mine is such that anyone can handle a progressive if they can handle a single stage, now if you think otherwise that is completely your right and your opinion. But please, refrain from your judgement of my experience, knowledge and tunnel vision (or lack thereof).

[EDG]

Says who? Lee?


Please explain your question. Lee precision is the most popular brand.

[EDG]

Rattletrap
You did not say a word about what you actually use your progressive for did you? Please connect the dots - what exactly does shooting .22 rimfire have to do with a progressive loader? Is it just fill for your weak defense?
I shot tens of thousands of rounds of .22 LR before you and the Dillon presses were ever born and I do not think there is any connection.
I also have the same loader plus many others and I have been loading since about the time you were born and before Dillion began marketing anything. Beginners should never start out on a progressive. You are welcome to your opinion but when it deserves comment to the contrary expect it. Since you did not start out on a single stage you really do not know what I am talking about.


Umm EDG, yeah I'd say you are both mistaken and inflammatory with that statement. I've been reloading since I was 19 and I'm 43 now, I shoot on the Connecticut High Power Rifle Team and .22 prone team, and currently shoot on a .22 gallery league. I cast my own bullets for both rifle and pistol. I've developed my own wildcats, and am quite well versed in BOTH rifle and pistol reloading. I have tunnel vision about few things other than my 2nd amendment rights. When I say that I think a new reloader can handle a progressive press I just assume that folks have the same aptitude that I did. I'm welcome to my opinion and mine is such that anyone can handle a progressive if they can handle a single stage, now if you think otherwise that is completely your right and your opinion. But please, refrain from your judgement of my experience, knowledge and tunnel vision (or lack thereof).

[Ozark Howler]

Avoid any equipment you can't afford, reloading is a hobby that supports your shooting needs. If Lee fits your budget, then by all means it works for you. Believe me, you can easily turn out crappy ammo on RCBS, Dillon, and all the rest as well. I purchased a new RCBS RC Supreme and sold it a few months later, the primer catcher is a joke, didn't fit well, missed half the primers, and when trying to remove it, spilled the other half. The next time you talk to RCBS, ask where the castings for their RC presses are made, you probably won't get a straight answer and will be told that their presses are all machined in the USA (machined, not made). If I were starting out today, I would probably look for an older RC press as pictured below, these served me well over the years.

[RogerDat]

I lack the experience to offer advice on specific equipment but...

Several experienced people have told me to avoid a digital scale unless I was willing to spend enough money to get a good one.

One of the best pieces of "equipment" advice I ever received was about photography but applies to a lot of other endeavors. Buy equipment when you can look at what you have already done and know what you require to do what you actually do better. Buying "more" only makes sense if you are being held back in your endevors by what you have.

Only through research and assessment of your own needs can you decide if more costly is worth it to you. It is worth noting that most major reloading manufactures make good products of known value, if turns out you don't like a piece of equipment you can sell it. resale value is something you can research before purchase and that is a good way to assess "equipment to avoid", if typical used selling price is really poor compared to purchasing new there is a reason for it. Find out that reason before purchasing.

There is generally a reason the paying public will shell out more money for a product. Sometimes it is twice as costly for 20% better quality, which may make sense if you need that enhanced quality. Mechanics pay a premium price for Snap-On tools not because the warranty is better than Craftsman but because even with hard constant use they can't afford the tool failing so they pay for that 20% better quality to avoid ever needing the warranty. Most of us are just fine with Craftsman tools. With equipment it makes a difference if your going to use it 60, 600, 6000, or 60,000 times a year.

People with knowledge and experience often have very different methods or opinions based on that experience. Hard to tell someone that has done it well for several years or thousands of times that their approach or choice of tool is "wrong". Learn why they do what they do from the divergent opinions. Never hurts to know more than one way to skin a cat and why you might want to use a specific tool or approach for that skinning. People put a different values on different aspects.

On reloader vs handloader divergence in this thread, seems to me that fits the definition of distinction without a difference. If I'm not mistaken both are trying to put a little thing that goes pop in one end, a projectile in the other end, with the correct powder load in the middle. Some people may put more emphasis on consistent quality in quantity and others more emphasis on limited production for development or perfection. But clearly both contribute back to the same community, and many do both activities.

[Airman Basic]

Well, I'll jump in where angels fear to tread, I guess. Using the $30 FA digital with success. Do I trust it completely? No, I check it regularly with check weights and a balance beam RCBS. Don't really use a scale much as most of my loading is for handgun with a Little Dandy. Love that thing, BTW. Anyway, used judiciously the digital does it for me. Devil take the hindmost.

[Lead Fred]

If it says Lee Perfect, dont buy or use it, Chinese plastic junk. Well the scale is part metal, but still junk.
My 1958 redding powder drop, and 10-10 scale have outlasted everything Lee makes to date.

[r1kk1]

These are my experiences FWIW:

Stuff I've bought and returned:

Lee Load-All
Lee Challenger, Reloader, Aluminum Turret Press, some production moulds, Lee Perfect Powder Measure, Lee Safety Scale

Stuff I don't care for personal reasons:
Dillon SDB

Stuff I would buy again:
Dillon 550, CH4D Champion, Redding Ultramag, Forster CO-AX, P/W 375c, a little early to judge my new RCBS Summit press.
Lee custom services stuff like moulds, rifle FCDs, bullet sizers.
JDS Quick Measure and RCBS Charge Master.
RCBS 10-10 scale
K&M tools
Wilson trimmer
Some Sinclair stuff.
Forster dies (I wish they made a larger variety than they carry).

A short list.

Tools are a very personal thing. I have pet peeves against Hornady and RCBS for dropping certain presses over the years like the Big Max and Apex. I miss those. I don't care to tweak, modify or Leementing any tool to work for me. I don't own a turret but I own two presses that accept LNL bushings for case forming duties or the easy to swap die station on the COAX. Lee updated the linkage on the Challenger press. That a good thing as that was the weakest link. The frame withstood tons of duties and the spent primer thing was a joke. Vastly improved on the CC single stage and turret. Not so I see on the Breechlock version. :sigh: Speaking of primer disposal features I like, enter the Champion, COAX, and Ultramag. The Lee universal decapper die I like but limited. Can't decap subcalibers or 475 Linebaugh and the like. Sinclair does it for me.

It's your money folks. I take reviews with a grain of salt and a critical eye. Some of the Midway reviews are pretty far out there and I don't share the same experiences. There is nothing really new, original or innovative in the reloading world. The same basic tools with a twist and a lot of advertising. I want new and exciting. How about a CC shotshell turret press with easy to remove heads like the PW 375 but height of shell can easily be set using a pin on the ram or someway to make it easy. It may have already been done in the past and I'm reinventing the wheel.

Take care and enjoy reloading or handloading, well enjoy the hobby

r1kk1

[RogerDat]

Well, I'll jump in where angels fear to tread, I guess. Using the $30 FA digital with success. Do I trust it completely? No, I check it regularly with check weights and a balance beam RCBS. Don't really use a scale much as most of my loading is for handgun with a Little Dandy. Love that thing, BTW. Anyway, used judiciously the digital does it for me. Devil take the hindmost.

Since you also have the RCBS beam scale you get the benefit of fast digital readout from your FA with a second tool for precision work and to double check. I was in the market for a single scale to meet all my scale needs.

Lead Fred I think the less than high opinion of Lee scale is widespread. Not universal perhaps but certainly recommended to avoid by many (at least to me). Thing I notice with equipment is often people cite a tool that has served them well for decades built in the 50's, 60's and 70's. That is certainly a good and valid reason to think highly of the product or company and recommend it. Not sure if it always applies to current product line. Lot of stuff built back in the day is much more robust than those same products today. Sometimes better design, sometimes not. Sometimes equal quality, sometimes cheaper materials or construction have crept in over time.

A used model with a good solid reputation, with knowledge of it's limitations can be a good price/value proposition.

[popper]

RCBS X die for 308 & the Lee FCD are your friends. You don't have to get the complete die set, pick what you want. Lyman PP uniformer tool with handle, their chamfer tool fits the same handle. PP cleaner tool is useless. Lyman universal decapper & M die ( you can change to a larger plug $5 when you start using cast). I haven't needed a case trimmer (yet) but that may depend on your rifle. Lemishine, Dawn & water for cleaning brass. 308 case gauge for setting & checking shoulder setback ( headspace). Some 4895 &/or Varget. The RCBS set will have stuff that will collect dust. Look up a baffle design for the powder measure & make it from cola can metal. I used the Hornady collet puller with success when I was loading jacketed.

[David2011]

Hawk,

Lots of good advice here among the sparring. You'll be guided by the cartridges you load and what you discover you need to accomplish that end. I loaded only pistol for many, many years and then started shooting centerfire rifles regularly. Rifle loading is more equipment intensive. As a result I've added a number of items that I never needed for pistol from Imperial Case Wax to a Lyman case prep station and case trimming tools. When it's time to purchase a specific tool you might post another question specifically researching that type of tool. Your volume of reloading will also dictate what you need. For example, case prep for 100 or even 500 military surplus 5.56 cases can be done with fairly basic tools but if you start prepping thousands you'll want faster tools. By the same token, if you shoot a big bore, heavy recoiling pistol you may only use 200-300 boolits per year so the sizing and lube needs are small and anything will suffice but if you shoot 500 rounds per month or more you will probably want a Star lubrisizer. You'll discover what you really need fast enough. AS a guideline, you might research what Sinclair International offers when you shop for tools. They've been around a long time and are now part of Brownell's. They don't carry anything that isn't the good stuff.

David

[Minerat]

I have Redding dies, Lee Dies, RCBS dies & Lyman dies, all work great for me. Be sure to spend the extra money for carbide dies for your pistols. I have 2, 44 mag and 50AE that are not carbide, BIGGG mistakes. I use a RCBS old style hand primer (one primer at a time) and digital scales.

I like RCBS as they have a no BS warranty. If something breaks or wears out call them and they will replace the part. I just returned a Sidewinder case cleaner drum that I got in the 80's because it had a flat spot on the rim and would not rotate. They replaced it no charge, just my shipping charge to get the old one to them. I was also luck when I started reloading and had a family member working for RCBS so got my initial setup for employee cost. Presses, tumbler, first 10 die sets, primer tray, loading block, scales, trimmer, powder measure, powder tickler, beam scale, analog calipers, and case prep tools. I even have an old piggy back progressive that bolts to my Rock Chucker press. You'll probably collect some junk too (Lyman electric powder trickle). Now I'm cost conscious so will buy other brand dies.

Reloading manuals, generic like the free manuals from the powder manufactures and available on the Internet are great resources and most specific manuals like Speer, Barnes et al, will give you data.

[rattletrap1970]

I've noticed that the design of dies change over time. I have some in which the decapper pin had to be removed from the bottom of the die, and not out the top (I have an RCBS carbide .30 carbine & .380 like this). I like the top removal much better. I have some Lee ones with the decapper in a collet (I get what they're trying to do, but I think they're a pain). Some of the seaters only come out from the bottom, don't like those either.

[kmrra]

Everyone has covered just about everything you need to know here read the reviews on anything that you buy , it helps alot , the Guys here are great about helping you , Dont know if anyone has mentioned this , but Reloading manuals? dont get just one you will find that the more the merrier , cant have enuff loading manuals

[Kilroy08]

In the avoid pile would be any of Lee's progressives or perfect looks like a powder measure but sure don't quack like a powder measure. I had a Loadmaster and the "Perfect" powder measure. Every 50 rounds I would have five to seven cartridges with missed, upside down, sideways, or half seated primers. In the process of this, the darn powder measure would dribble powder all over the place. Urinary incontinence would be a polite way of describing it.

Your mileage may vary:

The RCBS and CH4D press mounted primer pocket swagers. I've owned both and the CH4D seems to be the better one. However, I could never get a consistent result. I followed the instructions and sorted brass by head stamp, but I still ended up with the crimp not being fully ironed out.

I promptly put my primer pocket reamer in the chuck of my little South Bend 9A lathe and never looked back. There is a bit of a learning curve, but once you get the hang of it you can deal with crimped primer pockets faster than the next guy who has a Dillon Super Swage. (Just keep in mind that a nice South Bend 9A starts around $1200.00. Who am I kidding, we've all devolved into a bunch of man toy / gadget junkies here any way)

Speaking of crimped primer pockets... My Lee .223 Remington size die takes umbrage whenever I ask it to size and decap brass that has an intact crimped primer pocket. The decapping rod backs out at the slightest bit of trouble. This is just the nature of the beast regarding the way Lee designed the decap rod.

Dies:

Lee dies are great general purpose dies. As I mentioned before, crimped primer pockets cause Lee dies to not play nicely. When it comes to oddball or Easten Bloc calibers, Lee can be your savior. Everybody else wants to charge you over a hundred bucks for a die set? Well, Lee can be your hero for $29.99! A little facetious, but slightly true.

I also like Lee's crimp dies in all their forms.

My real preference is RCBS or, if you can afford it, Dillon. Having loaded with Lee, Hornady, Lyman, and RCBS dies, Dillon is considerably smoother and they're more robust in design.

Calipers and micrometers, a must have. Watch ebay for good prices on quality used tools. Look for Starrett, Mitutoyo, Brown & Sharpe, Helios, or Etalon. I lean towards Mitutoyo and Brown & Sharpe. The ones all the reloading companies sell with their names on them are either iffy quality Chinese made or, even worse, bashed out in some hut in India.

In conclusion, you did well with buying the Rockchucker. Having tinkered with my share of presses, when you're considering upgrading to progressives, spend your money once and be done with it.

By pure luck I happened across my Dillon 550 for dirt cheap on craigslist. After my fiasco with the Lee Loadmaster and seeing how well a very well used Dillon ran, I wouldn't flinch at paying for a new Dillon if I could do it over to begin with.

[MT Chambers]

My bench is both red and green, the Forster Co-ax and a Rockchucker, my dies are mostly Redding and Forster, RCBS, CH4D, powder measures are RCBS and LYMAN, measuring tools are mostly Starrett, I prime on the Co-ax.

[flashhole]

You started off right. RCBS is a fine outfit and stand behind their products. Customer Service is outstanding. Some others are equally as good. The one company I got burned by (twice) is Hornady. Worst customer service I've ever seen. No more Hornady equipment for me.

[Lloyd Smale]

hard question. they all make things I like and things I don't. Even lee makes good dies and there primer tool (at least the old one) has allways been my favorite. On the other end I love Dillon but think there primer tube filling machine is a total ***! For the most part I for smaller purchases I stick with rcbs and hornady

[mdi]

Anyone notice this thread is about 4 years old? If the OP hasn't found equipment he likes by now, he ain't gonna...

[No Blue]

Anyone notice this thread is about 4 years old? If the OP hasn't found equipment he likes by now, he ain't gonna...

Nobody cares when they can rant against whichever color they don't like!

[RugerFan]

Nobody cares when they can rant against whichever color they don't like!

And there's that wives tail again. Most people here give honest equipment reviews gained from their personal experience. If your experience differs, state your facts and carry on.

[mdi]

In 90% of threads where Lee equipment is mentioned, the Lee Haters come out. If you don't believe that, count threads about equipment and do the math. Personally I don't care what equipment experienced reloaders use, but it's a disservice to new reloaders to leave strongly bias opinions, which most of the time aren't factual...

Yes, the majority are good, honest, experienced members here on castboolits, but the "parrots" and those that cannot read instructions dump on threads here often...

[RugerFan]

In 90% of threads where Lee equipment is mentioned, the Lee Haters come out. If you don't believe that, count threads about equipment and do the math. Personally I don't care what equipment experienced reloaders use, but it's a disservice to new reloaders to leave strongly bias opinions, which most of the time aren't factual...

Yes, the majority are good, honest, experienced members here on castboolits, but the "parrots" and those that cannot read instructions dump on threads here often...

If there is a seemingly inordinate amount of negative reviews regarding one particular manufacturer, that should tell you something. I don't believe there is a concerted effort to "bash" Lee or anyone else. Take any given equipment review for what its worth and drive on.

[mdi]

All it tells me is that some misguided "theories" tend to take hold and circulate. Many, many newer forum members just parrot/repeat what they read (maybe it make them feel more of an "expert"). Unfortunately, if a forum "guru" (well known member with a huge post count) will say something and some will accept it, unquestionably as gospel and repeat it as often as possible. (ever hear "one drop of sweat fell into my casting pot and I was visited by the Tinsel Fairy with lead all over my bench"? )

I am familiar with "tool snobbery" and as was a Heavy Construction Equipment Mechanic/Electrician for a major west coast city water and power department (well paid personnel) I saw, first hand, tool snobbery at its best. Many purchased tools just because the price ("it's gotta be best 'cause it costs the most, right?"), many purchased tools because their favorite TV motorcycle builder or NASCAR pit crew used them. Some only purchased tools because of the name (if it's not Snap-On [or MAC, Proto, Williams, etc.] then it's junk). I have seen $8,000 tool chests, $50 screwdrivers, and $100 crescent wrenches (I have seen $$$$ tools purchased just to keep in the tool box and the mechanic kept a small box/tote tray of Craftsman tools to use that could get dirty). How well the tools worked was secondary. Yep tool snobs.

I see the same thing in forums when tools/equipment threads come up. "If it ain't RCBS (or Dillon, Sinclair, etc.) it's junk", and "that press ain't no good 'cause it don't cost as much as mine" (this is the most commonly applied to Lee products). Or suggestions like "Buy RCBS (insert any premium brand), and never look back" or "Buy once, cry once" inferring that if a tool isn't high priced it is no good.

Personally I don't care what tools/pressed a person uses, but a new reloader should get a much more unbiased view of tools/equipment available today. If I had been online when I started reloading (around 1969) I may not have gotten into reloading. My budget was quite small and I had to purchase tools that 1. worked and would last, and 2. that I could afford. If all I heard was how bad a certain tool company was, and the only way to reload was with RCBS (insert any $$$ tool), I would have prolly gone fishing. This is one of the reasons I object to Lee Bashing...

[jlchucker]

You can find all sorts of stuff you'll need, and pretty much everyone has put in their recomendations, most of which focus on presses, dies, etc. As others have mentioned, RCBS, Lyman, and Lee make several kits that will get you started. Or, you can tool up by buying various items peicemeal. If you do the latter, one thing to NOT "cheap out" on is a scale. I started my handloading experience around 1972, and I began by buying an RCBS kit and one set of dies--30-30. I still use those dies, and my go-to scale is still the RCBS Model 5-10 scale that the kit came with. RCBS and Lyman make good balance beam scales and will serve for decades if taken care of. A good scale is something you will use a lot, no matter what kind of stuff you will accumulate as time goes by. Weight in grains is key when it comes to powder charges and bullet (boolit) weight. You will depend a whole lot on a scale, so make it a good one right from the start.

[mdi]

No offence to jlchucker meant, but this is an example I mentioned that if the tool isn't expensive, it isn't any good. ( I am not defending Lee, but this is just an example). My first scale was a Lee Safety Scale. This scale is inexpensive, about $26.00, and is as accurate as any on the market (I tried the advertised "weighs piece of tissue 1/2 the size of a postage stamp" and it did. I have since compared the readings I got in a side by side test with newer purchased more "sophisticated" scales; RCBS 5-10, Lyman Ohaus D5, and 2 digital scales and they are exactly the same, but the digital are not quite as consistent as the beam scales.). So I can weigh powder on a $26.00 scale and get consistent, to less than .1 grain weights or I can weigh powder on my $70.00-$135.00 RCBS and get the same amount of powder in each case. So, it doesn't make sense for a new reloader to purchase a much more expensive scale unless he just wants to.(an aside, the Lee scale has a locking feature on it's poise, whis no other scale has. A good safety feature).

[Kenstone]

I have to consider the amount of equipment sold by any one company, as no company releases number of sales.
I believe the most bashed company sells the most equipment, and probably sells more than all the others combined.
And no one considers the reason or expectation of those who purchase reloading equipment.
The same reason there's a market for both Kia/BMW and good/bad reviews of both.
jmo
:-)

[RogerDat]

For any item you plan on purchasing approach it first by finding out what features or characteristics matter to people that already own that tool. In forums and reviews what features or uses people say are well supported or comment as being a shortcoming will allow you to accumulate a working knowledge of how and why people own the item or tool.

Then ask specific questions here about that tool or the relative merits of the choices you have narrowed it down to. Asking specifics will help avoid sprawling responses that go all over. Instead you will get information that is either a direct answer and even if the answer may not be what you asked about it will be related to the question and help you make a good choice.

Be aware people have bias, or perspectives. Some love what others hate, how they weigh the same facts is different, and that is when they can agree on the facts. Be aware if someone spent 2x as much on an item as most other models they are extremely unlikely to say I wasted all that "extra" money I spent. Their viewpoint can be skewed toward over valuation of the item because they convinced themself to buy it.

I don't like wasting money on cheap stuff that doesn't work, but I also don't like paying a bunch more for a tiny bit better product. I buy a lot of Lee stuff, much of it is as good or even better than more expensive offerings. Some fits in the category of good idea that does have limitations you might not expect, or the idea seems better than the execution or real world use proves it to be. Other stuff is slicker than snot on a glass door knob. I'll buy a $20 two cavity or $37 six cavity Lee mold without hesitation. But I'll also pay the $100 for an NOE mold to get a specific bullet and consider the extra cost to be money well spent on a quality mold. If a $110 press or $40 dies set will last the rest of my life and beyond, and work well for all that time I am certainly not going to pay twice as much on the off chance my great grand kids will use it. Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Redding all make good stuff & some stuff that costs 100% more for a 10% increase in some factor you will never notice.

The biggest aid to buying good is remembering two things. There is no shortcut to knowledge, ask me what I would buy and all you have learned is what I will buy, ask why one would pick x instead for y and do some reading and investigating and then you will have knowledge. You only get to spend the money once. Try to get good value for the money you spend.

I wash brass in bucket with a couple of spoonful of citric acid but I also like to polish it, at least once. My research showed this vibrating polisher at Cabela's to be the same as one offered direct from the US manufacturer, good reviews, reported good longevity, good price http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Model-Vibratory-Case-Tumbler-Kit/731769.uts It took me at least a couple of weeks to figure out I wanted that one, and my reading had shown it goes on sale fairly regularly so then I waited for a sale. Did the same with a Remington cap & ball, picked model out based on reviews and articles (plus a couple of questions here) and waited for the next sale to buy it. Did have to hide the cash from dear wife to keep it from being spent but it was not that hard, and totally worth it. :-)

[Hardcast416taylor]

My advise is to get both kinds of bullet pullers, a kinetic type (Hammer) and the collet type. The collet is used for `J` bullets best, the kinetic works for lead or `J` bullet loads. I recommend RCBS for both types.Robert

[jlchucker]

No offence to jlchucker meant, but this is an example I mentioned that if the tool isn't expensive, it isn't any good. ( I am not defending Lee, but this is just an example). My first scale was a Lee Safety Scale. This scale is inexpensive, about $26.00, and is as accurate as any on the market (I tried the advertised "weighs piece of tissue 1/2 the size of a postage stamp" and it did. I have since compared the readings I got in a side by side test with newer purchased more "sophisticated" scales; RCBS 5-10, Lyman Ohaus D5, and 2 digital scales and they are exactly the same, but the digital are not quite as consistent as the beam scales.). So I can weigh powder on a $26.00 scale and get consistent, to less than .1 grain weights or I can weigh powder on my $70.00-$135.00 RCBS and get the same amount of powder in each case. So, it doesn't make sense for a new reloader to purchase a much more expensive scale unless he just wants to.(an aside, the Lee scale has a locking feature on it's poise, whis no other scale has. A good safety feature).No offense taken, MDI. At the time I started loading, I don't think Lee was offering scales yet. Notice I didn't mention Lee, though. Given the state of my wallet at the time I bought that RCBS kit, it was the best bargain in the store I went to. Lee makes some good stuff, and it's good value for the money. There are some off-brand products that you see advertised from time to time though, that one should wonder about. My RCBS scale has lasted through thousands of loads, over some decades now. I offered that as an example of something that has lasted the whole time for me. My kit came with a single-stage press, an RCBS Junior made of iron. When I upgraded, I bought a Lee Classic Cast press that I consider to be every bit as good as comparable models made by RCBS or Lyman. Still, when loading, my point was intended to drive home that a good scale should be a major, critical consideration.

[nitro-express]

Gear gave some excellent advice; listen up. You are off to a good start with the RCBS kit. You will find that there are some things in the kit that you don't need but what you do need is there and of good quality. Buy first class; I have done without until I could afford the good stuff.

A couple specific reccommendations: Wooden, case dimension specific loading blocks are better than plastic. Powder tricklers are a waste of money, use an empty rifle cartridge case with some propellant in it and roll it between your fingers, the powder trickles out nicely and $20 saved. Keep your press well lubed and clean, primer residue is as abrasive as lapping abrasive. The lubricant may drip on the floor but your press will be tight and true 50 years from now.

Good luck and have fun.

Ditto on the lube. I remove the ram, clean all the pieces, lube with low temp and it works slick. A press that pops the primers out the bottom of a hollow ram almost eliminates primer **** problems. I like the grease zerk on the RCBS Summit, been thinking about adding the feature to some of my other presses.

[sw Idaho]

I try and keep everything simple. Most of all keep notes on what you do, what worked and what failed. I love the Lee case trimming tool. I use the Lee hand dies for range work. Dillon beam scale, Redding, RCBS and Hornaday dies. More Redding dies than the others. Redding T 7 press. Lee dippers are great.

Read, read read, manuals. More the better. Lotsunami of great information in reloading manuals.

Most of all make it fun. If it feels like work, or your mind is not into that day, walk away and come back another day.

[robg]

Lee press kit to get you started ,sets of dies for whatever your reloading and trimmers for bottle neck cases ,straight wall cases crack before they new trimming and as many manuals as you can afford .if you have a friend to show you the basics all the better.have fun.