Trapdoor....

[NVScouter]

So I've now come across my second trapdoor under $400. Both have been cut down significantly and forarms trimmed. I may buy at least one but that stubby barrel needs something.

Any idea how those barrels are set (threaded?) and if its even worth it over going to a rolling block in the $800 range?

If I rebarrel I'm thinking an octagon 38-55 barrel about 26" would be fun...sacralidge/unsellable?

[Larry Gibson]

The threads are square threads and are easy enough for a good machinist/gunsmith to cut. I'd bet John Taylor (forum member) can do it for you.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

The Springield "Trapdoor" action is weak as water, and not something you want to push any harder than black powder 45-70 pressures. That is not the action I would use to build something different from what it was.

[Springfield]

Sorta think the 38-55 would not overpressure a gun that used to be 45-70.

[Mark Daiute]

enjoy it for what it is, a cut-down trapdoor. you may be surprised.

My .02.

Mark

[Nobade]

I have long wanted to build a Gemmer style trapdoor. Make it look just like a J&S Hawken but with a trapdoor action instead of percussion. That would be a fun thing to do with one. I think I would make mine a 50-70.

-Nobade

[Scharfschuetze]

Seems like there was a necked down 45/70 called a 40/70(?) at one time that was popular in the BPCR matches. I never saw one, but thought that it would make for a good cartridge with good downrange performance with 40 cal 400 grain boolits and short range plinking loads with properly sized 41 Magnum revolver boolits. I mention it because if you want a smaller calibre for your Trapdoor, you might consider it as it would allow you to use the factory extractor/ejector already in your rifle.

Nobade, it you want to make a 50/70 Trapdoor derivative, look for an 1868 or 1870 Trapdoor rifle. They were chambered in 50/70 to start with so the mods you mention would be much easier. I still see them from time to time at the gun shows.

[fouronesix]

Exactly. If the base/rim specs are changed from that of a 45-70, it adds much more work than a simple re-barrel. The logical choices would be any number of BP cartridges with close to the same base/rim specs.

[elk hunter]

Years ago when trapdoors and parts for them were available cheap, a friend bought an action and built it up in 45-70 with an octagon barrel and put it together to look like a Hawken muzzleloader, great looking rifle. That fall he took it hunting and killed a monster Mule Deer. Needless to say he's had numerous offers, but won't sell as he's passing it one to one of his daughters. At about the same time he bought a cut down rifle and made it into a faux carbine for his brother-in-law. Both made nice weapons to play or hunt with.

[Larry Gibson]

The 38-55 is a common conversion for TDs, either rebarreling or relining. BP or standard 38-55 loads are entirely safe in the TDs. I think Scharfschuetzer was thinking of the 40-65 Winchester which is the 45-70 necked down to 40 cal and is still a very popular cartridge for BPCR. The 45-60 is also an excellent choice for rebarrelling/relining the TD. No extractor or ejector modification would be necessary. There is an out fit making replacement barrels for TDs BTW. However, if the TD shoots well as it it might just be a lot of fun that way as Mark mentions.

Larry Gibson

[waksupi]

Years ago when trapdoors and parts for them were available cheap, a friend bought an action and built it up in 45-70 with an octagon barrel and put it together to look like a Hawken muzzleloader, great looking rifle. That fall he took it hunting and killed a monster Mule Deer. Needless to say he's had numerous offers, but won't sell as he's passing it one to one of his daughters. At about the same time he bought a cut down rifle and made it into a faux carbine for his brother-in-law. Both made nice weapons to play or hunt with.

Those are called Gemmer Springfields. Gemmer worked for the Hawken shop, and began doing them when he went out on his own.
90119

[John Allen]

I have always like the look of the gemmers but would consider it sacrilegious to take apart a complete gun. One day I will find a complete action but the prices lately have been crazy.

[John Boy]

I'd bet John Taylor (forum member) can do it for you.
John posted somewhere he is a year behind and not taking anymore requests for awhile

[Larry Gibson]

John posted somewhere he is a year behind and not taking anymore requests for awhile

That says something about the quality of his work. I had him do a little work for me last year and it was excellent. Might be worth the wait?

Larry Gibson

[NVScouter]

I've just always had a spot on the rack for a trapdoor. If the barrel was more than 20" I'd keep it. But maybe a 357 liner would be fun too..who knows

Thanks for all the input

[ndnchf]

I have always like the look of the gemmers but would consider it sacrilegious to take apart a complete gun. One day I will find a complete action but the prices lately have been crazy.

I regularly shoot a model 1868 trapodoor in 50-70. It is a lot of fun and a great rifle. I also have a model 1884 trapodoor in .45-70, but its just not as much fun as the .50-70. The Gemmers are beautiful rifles, but I prefer the buttplate on a trapdoor.

I have a complete .50-70 model 1866 trapdoor barreled action laying around that I really don't need. If any of you are serious about building a trapdoor Gemmer and need a starting point, contact me off list.

[StrawHat]

Not a Gemmer or even a Hawken, but it is another option if you have thte parts.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/MississippiTrapdoor001.jpg (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/StrawHat/media/MississippiTrapdoor001.jpg.html)

I used the barreled action from an 1866 and the lock, stock and small parts from a Zoli made 1841 Mississippi rifle. (I broke the front band spring, if anyone has an extra one, please let me know.)

The 1866 and earlier actions were weak, being made by machining the breech end of musket barrels. By the time the 1873s were made the action was much stronger.

[bigted]

i say buy the cheap trapdoor for just what it is. they are fun shooters and i think you would be surprised at what they are capable of. the short rifle is so much more fun and less bulky then the looooong rifles are and the 45-70 IS the caliber to have just for messing about with.

heck 400 dollars is spit for a good shape carbine that is in tight overall shape compared to the parts to revive one.