Which lever gun is your loudest with a cast load?

[superior]

My loudest is the guide gun with full loads of slow powder behind a 405 grainer.

What's yours?

[JHeath]

My loudest is the guide gun with full loads of slow powder behind a 405 grainer.

What's yours?

This is a great question and not limited to lever guns. I am pricing decibel meters to compare different guns from the shooter's position. I gather it depends on muzzle pressure, but wonder if frequency affects the perceived noise. E.g. .30 Carbine and .32-20 handguns have bad reputations as ear-busters even with fast powders. Is the muzzle pressure actually higher than a short-barreled .45-70-405 rifle? Or do the smaller calibers "shriek" at high frequency, and the big ones "boom" less painfully? How does this compare to large artillery pieces, which presumbly are louder by the decibel meter?

[Nobade]

Probably my Marlin 32 spl. when it's loaded with black powder. It doesn't burn as much as the 45-70, but seems to be very high pitched and obnoxious. Either of the two kind of wear on you after a day of shooting, plugs and muffs are very helpful. Smokeless makes either much quieter, but it's just not as much fun.

-Nobade

[osteodoc08]

Anything with a sonic crack is gonna be loud.

I imagine the perceived loudest would be a short barreled (eg Contender) uber magnum that is 3000+ FPS out the other end with a muzzle brake.

Strictly lever gun wise, I'd imagine the mid bores with higher pressure would be loudest ala rifle caliber out of a Savage.

[Scharfschuetze]

I note that there is a free app for Samsung smart phones that is supposed to measure loudness. Guess I'll try it the next time I go to the range.

My most onerous lever rifle is a 20" Model 94 30/30 when I use jacketed bullets over Russian made BW-36 powder. The muzzle flash is right up there too.

[waco]

Marlin 1895 .45-70 with RCBS 405 @ 1800FPS

[shredder]

This is a great question and not limited to lever guns. I am pricing decibel meters to compare different guns from the shooter's position. I gather it depends on muzzle pressure, but wonder if frequency affects the perceived noise. E.g. .30 Carbine and .32-20 handguns have bad reputations as ear-busters even with fast powders. Is the muzzle pressure actually higher than a short-barreled .45-70-405 rifle? Or do the smaller calibers "shriek" at high frequency, and the big ones "boom" less painfully? How does this compare to large artillery pieces, which presumbly are louder by the decibel meter?

The factor is not so much frequency, ie. "shreik or boom" as it is the shock wave from the supersonic expulsion of gas from the muzzle. Impulse pressure is what we are after as well as decibel level. As you have noted it varies from the length of the barrel, wieght of the bullet, speed of the powder, volume of charge, volume of the case, etc etc etc.
It would be nice to have some scientific data but the old obvious rule still works.

If it has a short barrel it is going to be louder than the same gun with a longer barrel.

Some of that wisdom works becasuse the muzzle is farther away from you ears, the other componant is that the gases have less pressure at the end of a longer hole.

[nekshot]

winchester timber rifle 444 with magnaport!

[cuzinbruce]

Winchester Model 71 - .348 - The guy next to me with his AR said "What's That???"

[JHeath]

The factor is not so much frequency, ie. "shreik or boom" as it is the shock wave from the supersonic expulsion of gas from the muzzle. Impulse pressure is what we are after as well as decibel level. As you have noted it varies from the length of the barrel, wieght of the bullet, speed of the powder, volume of charge, volume of the case, etc etc etc.
It would be nice to have some scientific data but the old obvious rule still works.

If it has a short barrel it is going to be louder than the same gun with a longer barrel.

Some of that wisdom works becasuse the muzzle is farther away from you ears, the other componant is that the gases have less pressure at the end of a longer hole.

Thanks. Longer barrels muzzle pressure, but you can also reduce muzzle pressure by using faster powders. Probably Quickload would be good for predicting this -- I understand it calculates muzzle pressure.

E.g. a Unique load in 20" barrel might have lower muzzle pressure (and less noise) than a 4831 load in a 24" barrel. But the variables may be hard to pin down because nobody tries to get the same velocity out of a heavy bullet using Unique in a 20" barrel, as using 4831 in a longer barrel.

However, if I understand correctly, all sounds have frequency or combinations of frequencys. Painful sounds are (I think) in the frequencies availble to the human ear. Super-loud dog whistles are inaudible. Probably sounds at the low-frequency end of the audible scale can be loud but unnoticed.

A 2.0 earthquake is said to be 210db. I was in a 7.0 earthquake and don't remember any noise at all. Probably it was louder than any gun, but at a frequency we cannot hear.

It would be interesting to quantify a perceptive difference between a 160db blast from a .30 carbine revolver, and a 160db blast from a .458. Probably you could shorten the barrel of the .458 and use slower powders until the Db is 160, but the frequency might not hurt as much.

[truckboss]

Usually I'm the one clearing benches with my .454, thats why I use muffs and plugs.This guy next to me had a 7 Mag and that was the loudest most obnoxious gun I've ever heard.

[DeanWinchester]

While not MY rifle, I do load for my friends guide gun. It's a ported .450 Marlin. It's brutal.

[msp2640]

My Marlin 444 ported with anything near factory levels is a boomer, but my Ruger #1V in 22 Swift with factory Norma (@ north of 4000 fps) was by far and away the loudest, but shoots the smallest groups of any rifle I've ever shot - Bill in MA

[Jacko.357]

My M92 .357 Rossi 24" Barrel is my loudest, the high pitched Crack really gets to my Ears. My 45.70 and .44 Mag have a subdued Boom

regards Jacko

[shredder]

Thanks. Longer barrels muzzle pressure, but you can also reduce muzzle pressure by using faster powders. Probably Quickload would be good for predicting this -- I understand it calculates muzzle pressure.

E.g. a Unique load in 20" barrel might have lower muzzle pressure (and less noise) than a 4831 load in a 24" barrel. But the variables may be hard to pin down because nobody tries to get the same velocity out of a heavy bullet using Unique in a 20" barrel, as using 4831 in a longer barrel.

However, if I understand correctly, all sounds have frequency or combinations of frequencys. Painful sounds are (I think) in the frequencies availble to the human ear. Super-loud dog whistles are inaudible. Probably sounds at the low-frequency end of the audible scale can be loud but unnoticed.


A 2.0 earthquake is said to be 210db. I was in a 7.0 earthquake and don't remember any noise at all. Probably it was louder than any gun, but at a frequency we cannot hear.

It would be interesting to quantify a perceptive difference between a 160db blast from a .30 carbine revolver, and a 160db blast from a .458. Probably you could shorten the barrel of the .458 and use slower powders until the Db is 160, but the frequency might not hurt as much.

Good point. Our ears are specifically tuned to speech frequencies so we feel that pain particularly in those areas ie: 1k to 4k. I have hearing loss from many years of high volume 12 gauge goose hunting, and playing in a loud rock band. My loss is from around 1.6k up and would seem to support your theory about high freq componant to firearms muzzle blast. I wish I had the equipment to measure a firearms discharge regarding frequency. All my measurement gear is related to recording and live reproduction of music, and is likely not responsive enough for the super fast impluse generated. I imagine my measurement mic would not survive the shock wave generated close up to a rifle muzzle.

We hear from 20 Hz up to 20,000 Hz. (most adults top out around14k) Loads of things happen above and below those frequencies. I believe you would have to be right on top of the earthquake fault line to get anything like that sound pressure. You would certainly notice any low frequency sound delivered at that pressure! When I finished the last concert sound sub woofers I built, I ran a series of test tones through them to asess performance. When I ran 20 hz at around 85db I can honestly say I "heard" nothing. However, I FELT the sound! Pictures were falling off the walls, and the pressure was obvious when standing in front of the throat to really catch the sound wave. My dogs reacted violently! They freaked out and left the area, pronto!

[ndnchf]

My Uberti Winchester 1876 in .50-95. A full load of Swiss 2F black powder and a 350gr bullet. It creates its own thunder and lightning:mrgreen:

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/Uberti76-1_zpsc0de7031.jpg (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/Uberti76-1_zpsc0de7031.jpg.html)

[JHeath]

Good point. Our ears are specifically tuned to speech frequencies so we feel that pain particularly in those areas ie: 1k to 4k. I have hearing loss from many years of high volume 12 gauge goose hunting, and playing in a loud rock band. My loss is from around 1.6k up and would seem to support your theory about high freq componant to firearms muzzle blast. I wish I had the equipment to measure a firearms discharge regarding frequency. All my measurement gear is related to recording and live reproduction of music, and is likely not responsive enough for the super fast impluse generated. I imagine my measurement mic would not survive the shock wave generated close up to a rifle muzzle.

!

What kind of equipment could quantify the frequencies of gunshots, and what profession uses that kind of equipment? Maybe we can find somebody to take a few readings.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like "loud" with reference to guns must be a combination of decibels concentrated in a certain range of frequencies. Not simply the total Db.

I have a hunch that the .450s and .45-70s boom really loud, but maybe the equivalently-loud .32-20s crack in a concentrated frequency. Like the difference between hearing a 90 bass and 100db guitar playing together, vs. hearing a 160db mic feedback at one frequency.

Maybe this is why people gripe about .30 Carbine Blackhawks, but not about .44 Mag Super Blackhawks. Is the SBH actually lower Db? Or a lower combination of frequencies, possibly at even a higher Db?

BTW Shredder do you have tinnitus? Ever heard of "notched music therapy"? It relates to this phenomenon. I need notched music therapy, but the obstacle is identifying the frequencies of my tinnitus. I cannot isolate them, it's like trying to chase a rainbow. I have a tone generator app for my iPad but it's still really difficult.

[Aje]

Mine is a ported guide gun in 45/70 with a case full of AR2207 (4198) pushing a 425gn boolit at 1930fps. it's just plain nasty seems a lot louder than even my 416 Rigby with 400gn j word at around 2450fps.
My 1876 in 45/75 with black powder is pretty loud but more of a satisfying boom.

Aje

[shredder]

What kind of equipment could quantify the frequencies of gunshots, and what profession uses that kind of equipment? Maybe we can find somebody to take a few readings.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like "loud" with reference to guns must be a combination of decibels concentrated in a certain range of frequencies. Not simply the total Db.

I have a hunch that the .450s and .45-70s boom really loud, but maybe the equivalently-loud .32-20s crack in a concentrated frequency. Like the difference between hearing a 90 bass and 100db guitar playing together, vs. hearing a 160db mic feedback at one frequency.

Maybe this is why people gripe about .30 Carbine Blackhawks, but not about .44 Mag Super Blackhawks. Is the SBH actually lower Db? Or a lower combination of frequencies, possibly at even a higher Db?

BTW Shredder do you have tinnitus? Ever heard of "notched music therapy"? It relates to this phenomenon. I need notched music therapy, but the obstacle is identifying the frequencies of my tinnitus. I cannot isolate them, it's like trying to chase a rainbow. I have a tone generator app for my iPad but it's still really difficult.

Tinnitus? Yup. Frequency of my tinnitus is around 2k. High pitched ring. Had it since I was a child. I vividly remember searching our house with a babysitter for the source of the sound when I was about 4. Hereditary hearing loss at it's finest with my help along the way.

I think the most important component here is speed of the expanding gas exiting the muzzle rather than freq. Normal sounds are travelling along at 1120 fps or so depending on temp, humidity and altitude. Now introduce the variable of speed and imagine a shock wave from the muzzle travelling at much higher 'supersonic' speed. Think of videos taken from planes of bombing where you can see the shock wave emanating from the site of the explosion. It covers miles in an instant if the explosion is big enough.

This same thing is occurring in miniature from the muzzle of your firearm, and you are very close to that shockwave, though behind it, slightly saving us from the very worst. Try being out 20 feet in front and to the side of a 7mm mag discharge some time. It is memorable! It is this shockwave that will overwhelm your eardrum and the delicate inner workings attached to it. This causes irreparable damage. The damage from firearms discharge is trauma related rather than a certain frequency concentration.

As far as measurement systems, the impulse is so fast and so potentially energetic I would not subject my measurement microphones to it at close range where the most meaningful measurements should be taken. The diaphragm is analogous to our eardrum and over extension will likely shred it. Expensive little mic to replace. My real time analyzer, which gives out a display of the relative strength of dozens of frequencies across the range of human hearing, is used for continuous tone generation and analysis to avoid feedback propagation in PA systems for live events and studio room treatment. It is not designed to capture an impulse lasting only thousandths of a second.

I am not sure if such analysis has been done, but likely someone has. Google may be our friend here, I have not gone in search yet.

My worst ear slapper was an 18 inch barrel .308. That sucker hurt me!!

[pdawg_shooter]

That would be my 1895G with the ported barrel.

[TXGunNut]

Any ported bbl will be loud, my ported Guide Gun with a healthy 45-70 load is a bit of an overachiever in this area. My ported 35 Rem Contender bbl has been known to clear a shooting bench or two but that's off-topic. ;-)